2008-10-13, 16:47 | Link #1041 | |
Knight of Twelve's Knight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orange County
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As far as I know NUN and SMS pilots wouldn't fair too well against ghosts. The original X9 took Guld to school.
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2008-10-13, 18:16 | Link #1043 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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- Tak
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2008-10-13, 18:19 | Link #1044 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Infected the X-9 through there. As for Grace hacking the three AIF-7S Ghosts of Luca, given the bad rep AI got from the Sharon Apple incident I'm sure he did some countermeasures. Basically from Luca's point of view this an opportunity for AI to prove themselves from the stereotyped AI with self-preservation priorities. It was a hive minded AI versus an independent minded AI in the Ghost on Ghost battle. |
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2008-10-13, 18:47 | Link #1045 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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If they happen to run low for some reason, all they have to do is pull up to a star systems oort cloud and pick up a bunch of ice rocks or comets. That's not all that hard to do. Its only oxygen and hydrogen.
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2008-10-13, 18:54 | Link #1046 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 36
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It looks the same as the VF-27's quantum beam weapon when it's in rapid fire mode. You don't see it happen, but there's a good chance it's the same weapon and it has the capability to do so. |
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2008-10-14, 09:43 | Link #1048 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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The official Macross statistics have made a distinction between beam weapons and lasers from the original SDF Macross all the way up to Macross 7. However, the official statistics released thus far for the Macross Frontier mecha describes only beam guns armaments. They may not use lasers on any of the mecha in Macross Frontier. Particularly telling is the fact that the head mounted weapons on both the VF-25 Messiah and the VF-27 Lucifer are beam weapons. Traditionally, lasers have been mounted on the head units of the Valkyries more often than not. I've built some entries on the Macross Mecha Manual to assist in describing the literature on the subject. You can read them in the link here Macropedia on the Macross Mecha Manual but I've also copied and pasted the entries in my post here on AS. See below: Quote:
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2008-10-14, 14:22 | Link #1049 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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2008-10-14, 15:46 | Link #1050 |
Macross Lifer!
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Orbital weapons can not transport people, can not hide by any means other than stealth technology, can not be rapidly moved to a response zone that's on the opposite end of engagement zone. Also, depending on it's orbit, said weapon may or may not be in position for firing.
If we're talking about the macross universe: orbital weapons can not engage in urban fighting (Destriod mode) or close quarters combat within a vessel. Because of their stationary nature are very susceptible from long range bombardment such as with a macross cannon. |
2008-10-14, 16:11 | Link #1051 |
Skull Fairy Scout
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Another big issue regarding orbital weapons is how difficult they are to service. If it fires solid projectiles then someone's going to have to meet it in orbit to reload. Someone will also have to service it should the power supply run out, the sensors need calibration, or for any repairs. As also pointed out, they are mostly defenseless. You don't even need a missile in space. A simple spherical projectile fired at high enough velocity from outside the satellite's sensor range will be undetectable and utterly demolish the satellite.
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2008-10-14, 19:31 | Link #1052 | |
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Still not going to work. Let's take a modern-day heatsink as an example. The heatsink works by taking heat from the CPU and transferring it to air. There is a medium that allows heat transfer from the CPU. If there is no air, there cannot be any heat transfer. Now of course we can substitute it with water, or other mediums, but you cannot transfer heat from one object into vacuum. It will not happen, and violates thermodynamics.
So yes you can put radiator fins. Won't make a difference, since there's nothing the fins can transfer to. Quote:
Also, note that in my context, referring to Marines, is Close Air Support. An OKW cannot provide close air support. CAS by friendly ground attack fighters and helicopter gunships is still the best protection for an infantry landing force being deployed by helicopter. Then let's consider the fact that an OKW can only destroy, and cannot take ground; you need troops for that and you need helicopters and VTOLs for that - airmobility. And in today's current age of COIN warfare, troops on the ground is more important. Note that the US Army, which has traditionally listed artillery as a key role, has now de-emphasised artillery in recognition of the fact that stabilisation operations and counter insurgency warfare are the battles that it will be fighting now and in the future. (The Marines meanwhile have already added COIN skills to those learned at Basic and Infantry School at 29 Palms). Finally, cost. Putting an OKW system in space, with enough coverage to strike all over the world, would be too expensive. Don't believe me? That's what happened to the Brilliant Pebbles sub-program of the US SDI, which was a series of sattelites mounted with heatseekers to take out ICBMs. Cost and figuring out how to get everything up there and service it was just too much trouble. Also, once fired, an OKW cannot call off it's attack run, unlike an aircraft running CAS. One more thing: An OKW cannot medevac wounded troops. Artilery has been an effective tool. But it has not won a war and it will not due so. Precision bombing is an effective tool. But it does not win wars by itself.
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2008-10-14, 20:50 | Link #1053 | |||||||
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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They can't, but that's what ground troops are for. Quote:
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2008-10-14, 21:11 | Link #1054 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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One thing about orbital rail guns is that they are inherently in-accurate in targeting since the magnetic field around earth is always at flux interfering the projectile trajectory.
At a distance of three hundred miles going through variances within the earth's magnetic field makes it impossible to accurately target within a kilometer radius. No good in usage for ground support. |
2008-10-15, 10:55 | Link #1055 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Note to all, flamers and personal attacks will be ignored. If you persist in them, I'll merely report you.
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2008-10-15, 11:10 | Link #1056 | |
Eating your babies
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There's also the concern about weapon power. There's a lot of kinetic energy in orbital kinetic weapons, maybe too much to make them useful for close support. This also applies to collateral damage, as in Rods from God are good at causing it, which is fine if you don't care about who you're killing, but does make them just a little impractical for urban combat. Of course, none of this changes the most important thing, which is that to take and hold territory, you need boots on the ground, and that means infantry. That infantry will need support, which in the Macross universe are Destroids and Variable Fighters. Why no just use troopships? Because Troopships aren't designed to deploy fighters in combat. If they were, they become carriers. Most importantly though, Orbital Weapons are next to useless in Macross except for planetary defense, as they don't fight people who live on planets. Everyone that is a serious threat to the UN Spacy/NUNS lives and fights primarily in space and with massive swarms of smaller, fighter sized craft. So, lots of carriers and lots of fighters make sense from a doctrinal point of view until such a time as the UN Space/NUNS develop perfect point defense and ships capable of dealing with Rogue Zentraedi warships on even terms. |
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2008-10-15, 12:07 | Link #1058 | |||||||
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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One more thing: If you have a laser powerful enough to shoot down from orbit then why can't you use one from the ground to shoot back up? I also see that you did not address the issues with servicing, maintaining and repairing the OW, regardless of whether it was a sattelite or ship. Quote:
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Secondly, even with tungsten penetrators, you're looking at large yields - very big blast craters. And if you go for missiles with small footprints - like equivalent to the 250lb SDB that's being developed, then you might as well just use aircraft. Cheaper and quicker reaction times. Quote:
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Besides, you only said "aircraft", which is not limited to fighters There are plans to make the MV-22 into a gunship, afterall... Quote:
You also haven't addressed my previous point on the MAD issue. You've also overlooked something: if satellites are really immune to all forms of attack, why is it that the US still trains and prepares for combat without any form of satellite support? You'd think that the nation with the mightiest military in the world would have satellites that would be invulnerable... Also, you've forgotten a weak link in your orbital death grid, Daigo. I'll let you think abit about that weak link for a bit. Bottom line though, while the idea of orbital weapons is cool, it's just not practical enough. No nation will find OW installations if they're going to be white elephants and if they're satisfied with what they have. America's nuclear arsenal, while powerful, has essentially been a white elephant. I'm not sure how commenting on how you seem to have missed the point of this thread, this spirit of the Macross universe, and that we've gotten pretty derailed from purpose of this thread is a personal attack.
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2008-10-15, 12:37 | Link #1059 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Just to hammer the final nail to coffin of the Orbital Weapons arguement.
United Nations Office of Outer Space Affairs http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/SpaceLaw/outerspt.html Quote:
Unless you want every superpower and country in the world as your enemy. Last edited by ReddyRedWolf; 2008-10-15 at 12:49. |
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2008-10-15, 12:49 | Link #1060 |
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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We;re also forgetting the whole trauma factor; after Earth was burned clean by the Rain of Death, I'm very sure the survivors would not want orbital weapons around their planet. Japan, for instance, can become a nuclear power with very little effort, but does not do so due to the psychological scarring that came from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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