High School DxD [LN/M] - Discussion about Other Topics

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Fog Gate Boss

Because when he was defeated by Verrine and Balberith, there was no mention of his six arms and six divine weapons he used against Indra. He likely didn't want to give a heads up to what he could do.

The Six arms should be his transformation because in his base state he does not show them. Being a transformation probably requires stamina and at that point Mahabali was exhausted and heavenly injured.
Anyway it doesn’t make sense. Do you really think the prince of Asura, a prideful God, one of the favourites teamsprefers to being heavely beaten and humiliated in face of every mythology? I don’t think he’s a masochist and when you have an opponent stronger than you, you use all your power to fight.

Additionally, the Rating Game field was strengthened after the preliminaries (the section of the games where Balberith + Verrine fought Mahabali), and Indra's match ended up destroying it, suggesting a more devastating battle than with earlier matches.

It doesn’t mean nothing. Against Indra’s team there were the Heavenly kings who fought the Asura Gods and were well matched bringing more destruction. Against Mahabali they were eliminated, avoiding more damage to the field. The fact the field wasn’t in bad conditions can mean It was really a one side battle.

The narration talked about Mahabali's six weapons being divine weapons being rumours, as if he hadn't used them before his fight with Indra. There was also no reference to Mahabali using Infinity Blaster-scale attacks beforehand and Issei seemed surprised, so either Issei and Co never followed up on the match (unlikely considering how Rias considered the match itself an anomaly and knew they might fight against them sometime down the road in a match) or Mahabali didn't fight against them the same way he fought against his sworn nemesis.

The narration was of Issei and he saw the match of Mahabali vs Balberith when was almost ended. There is not even any reference to such attacks because Issei and co watched the match only at the end.


Literally nothing you posted would put him on Top 10.

1) His attacks being akin to the Infinity Blaster just means there are people between the Top 10 and Issei that can do that, not that only people on the Top 10 can. Not much of a surprise if there are people near Top 10 or just in between Tartarus and Typhon in power scaling, especially considering how I don't think Issei and Co have ever fought a War God before.

If it wasn’t only people in the top 10 released attacks of such level: Issei, Vidar, Apophis, Indra and Issei AxA that’s extremely superior.

Your points are not valid to doesn’t put him on top 10.

Issei can only fire two Infinity blaster even though is Heavenly dragon class, Crom has to gather aura and compress it, Vidar has to use his strongest attack and Every attack released immediately by Mahabali is on that level. So yes, he’s top 10 when his casual attacks are as strong as the strongest attacks of Vidar or Issei.

How is relevant they didn’t never see a War God? They saw the strongest Gods of every mythology: Indra, Mahabali, Vidar and Typhon that even though being a monster, is always on that level. He fought even against Angra and Hades.

Heavenly Kings and unkonwed Asura Gods are War Gods, but not top 10. Hades is God of death, but it’s the strongest God saw after Trimurti, Indra and Mahabali

2) Apollon isn't in the Top 10, and Mahabali is a warrior god who has prepared himself to battle Indra and likely trained to resist attacks against the guy who he wants to fight. Or Mahabali himself is strong enough to fight them and put up a good fight with preparation and him being stronger than Kiba, Nazha and most of the other characters would help.

Like you said Apollon is not on the top 10, but after the Supreme God level, which is the level of top 10 Gods, there is the Chief-God level and the story showed Apollon is very far from the top 10 beings, without the possibility even to face a top 10.

So Mahabali is top 10, otherwise he would have been immediately destroyed by Indra in one second, like happened with Apollon vs Ddraig.

3) Being defeated by a Top 10's attack that is stronger than an Infinity Blaster isn't proof that you are Top 10, it is proof you can take that attack and not die instantly, see Tartarus surviving AxA's nerf blast.

Apophis was killed by a top 10’s attack as Azi and Rivezim was badly injured even though he counterattacked with his immense ball of demoniac power.

Tartarus is different because maybe aside its size it has the regeneration? Something only other two characters showed to have such ability (Ophis and Trihexa) even though their is superior.

Without regeneration would have been immediately defeated.

-Mahabali severs Indra's arm
-Indra hits him one more time with a seemingly "normal" attack
-Mahabali staggers and reaches his limits
-Indra takes the time to charge his attack with his Vajra to maximum and hits Mahabali.

It directly states that Indra uses the maximum amount of Godly aura on his Vajra, as in charging it to 100% before using it, instead of using all of his own power. Besides his arm being severed, Indra looks no worse for wear nor is there any mention of fatigue from him. It is fairly clear that he likes a good fight and won't waste it, but it doesn't seem like Indra took the fight itself very seriously.

First Indra hits Mahabali with his lighting and at the end of the fight He severs Indra’s arm before Indra gave him the final hit.

I didn’t understand your point on Vajra. Indra’s power is the Vajra and to use it, he has to put a certain quantity of aura based on the level of the attack.
The fact he put all his aura means he released his strongest attacks

After the commentator announced who the winner was, the spectators were also really charged up. Sakra’s win, huh. But…Sakra also didn’t come out unscathed. Sakra had visibly suffered several injuries here and there on his body, as shown on-screen. Likewise, his subordinates, the Four Heavenly Kings, and Arjuna also suffered significant damage. The fated match was not a one-sided victory.

Credits to Xuanwu

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by Xuanwu

It says he sustained significant damage similarly to his subordinates though.

I said "no worse for wear", not "it was a roflstomp and he didn't even suffering a single injury."

[Xuanwu]

^Okay, but Mahabali is obviously a Top 10 character based on his feats against Indra though. Fenrir or Typhon wouldn't be able to match a guy that can spam Infinity Blaster-class attacks, based on how Ddraig defeated Typhon with high-difficulty. Unless Fenrir's speed is enough for him to dodge all of Mahabali's attacks and take him down with his anti-god fangs.

Typhon didn't even harm Ddraig with his initial attack, so Mahabali withstanding Indra's normal attacks (~Infinity Blaster level) means he would have an easier time enduring Typhon's attacks than the other way around. Assuming Typhon can use his powers in a technique-type manner similarly to Dulio, he'd have a better chance. But he is inferior in firepower and durability.

The way I see it, Indra would likely mid-diff Typhon at worst whereas the Mahabali match was a high-difficulty fight for him.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Xuanwu

^Okay, but Mahabali is obviously a Top 10 character based on his feats against Indra though. Fenrir or Typhon wouldn't be able to match a guy that can spam Infinity Blaster-class attacks, based on how Ddraig defeated Typhon with high-difficulty. Unless Fenrir's speed is enough for him to dodge all of Mahabali's attacks and take him down with his anti-god fangs.

Typhon didn't even harm Ddraig with his initial attack, so Mahabali withstanding Indra's normal attacks (~Infinity Blaster level) means he would have an easier time enduring Typhon's attacks than the other way around. Assuming Typhon can use his powers in a technique-type manner similarly to Dulio, he'd have a better chance. But he is inferior in firepower and durability.

The way I see it, Indra would likely mid-diff Typhon at worst whereas the Mahabali match was a high-difficulty fight for him.

Well to be fair, Ddraig and Albion may be on the upper list of the top 10 that Ishibumi list out prior, so it could be why Typhon didn't manage to damage Ddraig much. Remember Fenrir (Typhon) is mentioned to be a beast equal to the Heavenly Dragons before they're sealed, not equal to the Heavenly Dragons in their prime.

Just take Hades for example, he didn't take Sirzechs lightly even calling him a monster. But Hades was able to withstand an attack from Vali's DxD L form and it required Ise and Vali's smasher to down Hades. If we're using feats, does this mean true form Sirzechs is still stronger than current Ise & Vali in their DxD form.

So is it being able to launch a smasher level attack repeatedly really a sign that someone is "Top 10"?

<<Fafafafa. You monster. I see. You have greatly surpassed the former Lucifer. You even greatly outclass the category of a Maou. No, I can feel powers which make me doubt if I can even call you a Devil. –What are you?>>

[That’s what I would like to know. Though it’s certain that it is a sudden mutation. –Either way, the current me can eliminate you.]

<<Fafafa. Doesn’t sound like a joke at all. If we fight, then the realm of the dead will definitely perish.>>

Yeah. If it is the current Sirzechs, then that won’t be a joke. This miscalculation makes me very happy. At worst I thought we had to handle Hades by force, but the current Sirzechs’s power can accomplish that with ease.

—!

...What!?

Hades, who had received Vali's 'Smasher', was still standing there despite the fact he had received great damage.

His clothes were destroyed, and although there were cracks everywhere on his skeleton body, he still released a strong godly aura.

The depths of his eye sockets shone with a dangerous light.

In this case,​ even Vali's bombardment couldn’t bring him down.

As expected, Hades was stronger than Angra Mainyu....

Because he was a powerful person who was even in the Top Ten of all factions, I guess it was natural.

[Xuanwu]

^Yes, Sirzechs should still be stronger than DxD Issei and Vali. He said he would be able to defeat Hades and Azazel backed him up, despite initially thinking that they might not be able to win against Hades (not knowing about Sirzechs' true form). Recall that the narration described Hades "shuddering" again at the power of Super Devils after seeing Balberith. The only other Super Devil that it could refer to, is Sirzechs.

Hades still put up resistance against Issei + Vali and the DxD team's core members after facing Vali and Fenrir. For Sirzechs to be able to "easily" defeat him, he would have to be stupidly strong.

I personally believe Sirzechs & Ajuka are at least on Indra's level or above.

[Xuanwu]

I'm having a thought that XxX is an alternate world created by Innovate Clear, which is where Mitsuya and Shizuka came from. Does that even make sense?

I recall Mitsuya stating that he can't remain on "this side" if his terminals were to be destroyed. To me, that implies that he is not a native of DxD (Earth).

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by Xuanwu

^Yes, Sirzechs should still be stronger than DxD Issei and Vali. He said he would be able to defeat Hades and Azazel backed him up, despite initially thinking that they might not be able to win against Hades (not knowing about Sirzechs' true form). Recall that the narration described Hades "shuddering" again at the power of Super Devils after seeing Balberith. The only other Super Devil that it could refer to, is Sirzechs.

While I am sure that was the author's intent by Azazel believing Hades can be defeated, Hades' reaction doesn't seem like he is convinced he can easily be eliminated, nor does he even seem scared. All he says is that the Realm will perish as a result of their fight. The only other time I can remember that is the comparison between Great Red and Trihexa.

And not to be nitpicky, but Shudder means:
of a person) tremble convulsively, typically as a result of fear or revulsion.

Once again, I am sure it was meant to be of fear, but Hades doesn't show any fear at all, so he probably has a good poker face (or skull, technically.) I don't know if the raws are more specific about what the intent was.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Fog Gate Boss

While I am sure that was the author's intent by Azazel believing Hades can be defeated, Hades' reaction doesn't seem like he is convinced he can easily be eliminated, nor does he even seem scared. All he says is that the Realm will perish as a result of their fight. The only other time I can remember that is the comparison between Great Red and Trihexa.

And not to be nitpicky, but Shudder means:
of a person) tremble convulsively, typically as a result of fear or revulsion.

Once again, I am sure it was meant to be of fear, but Hades doesn't show any fear at all, so he probably has a good poker face (or skull, technically.) I don't know if the raws are more specific about what the intent was.

Well if we consider that even Ddraig felt at awed with Sirzechs' strength. I think Sirzechs could be at a level equal to the Two Heavenly Dragons.

Your words, what do you—. I didn’t understand the true meaning behind Sirzechs-sama’s words, but the Maou-sama continued to elevate his aura which embodied the power of destruction. The entire island was trembling—. His aura soared up again, and the demonic energy of destruction enveloped Sirzechs-sama’s entire body! What appeared in his place was a dense concentration of the aura of destruction which had converged into a humanoid form, an absolute existence. I-Is this Sirzechs-sama’s true form? Just by feeling the atmosphere he exuded from beside him, it made me understand that this was an immense aura beyond all imagination…. This is a Super Devil. The current Maou Lucifer! Even Ddraig leaked a breath of admiration at the sight of this.

[…This is Rias Gremory’s ani. An irregular among the Devils. …A true monster.]

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Fog Gate Boss

While I am sure that was the author's intent by Azazel believing Hades can be defeated, Hades' reaction doesn't seem like he is convinced he can easily be eliminated, nor does he even seem scared. All he says is that the Realm will perish as a result of their fight. The only other time I can remember that is the comparison between Great Red and Trihexa.
Once again, I am sure it was meant to be of fear, but Hades doesn't show any fear at all, so he probably has a good poker face (or skull, technically.) I don't know if the raws are more specific about what the intent was.

Well, Azazel affirmed clearly Sirzechs could easily handle Hades and the feats of vol21 confirmed he could actually do it fastly.

No one in the story showed fear to on opponent stronger than him/hee self by far, even though the power gap was immense: Nyx, Erebus, ecc.

Originally Posted by B214

Well if we consider that even Ddraig felt at awed with Sirzechs' strength. I think Sirzechs could be at a level equal to the Two Heavenly Dragons.

He's not on that level when his casual attacks are more powerful than the strongest attack of Ddraig and they can't overpass his Pod or touch his body.

P DxD aura's attack were erased from the Pod of Balor Rias, just an over maou-class. Let alone for the Pod of a top 10 with an higher compression and quantity.
Another point is how Sirzechs could easily defeat Hades, While Vali DxD L couldn't.

Furthemore there is a reason if Sirzechs and Ajuka could be a possible threat, for Shiva, not Crom who overpassed the Heavenly Dragons or Hades.

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Well, Azazel affirmed clearly Sirzechs could easily handle Hades and the feats of vol21 confirmed he could actually do it fastly.

No one in the story showed fear to on opponent stronger than him/hee self by far, even though the power gap was immense: Nyx, Erebus, ecc.

I assume you mean when Sirzechs fought the Trihexa core, one that is significantly weaker than actual Trihexa and only used Cast Fist on Issei who managed to punch him backwards. Forget for a moment that Hades doesn't fight in Melee, so this doesn't actually do anything, Sirzechs' basket ball of destruction was said to equivalent to Rias' Extinguished Star, which was used to destroy the Core.

While those are feats, they aren't particularly impressive. Considering how Rias' Extinguished Star was cut apart by a Durandal Replica by Strada. Mind you, it was Issei who made the observation regarding Basketball of Destruction and Extinguished Star.

Hades? He tanked for a time Cao Cao's True Longinus, Tobio, Sairaorg, Strada's Durandal II, Dulio, Rias and everyone else along with Vali's Satan Lucifer Smasher, while beforehand he was using his power to bind and dodge Fenrir and shooting at Vali for however long it lasted. Even after, he was able to repel a Ingvild-Enhanced Vali and Issei's Cast Fists for a short time.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Fog Gate Boss

I assume you mean when Sirzechs fought the Trihexa core, one that is significantly weaker than actual Trihexa and only used Cast Fist on Issei who managed to punch him backwards. Forget for a moment that Hades doesn't fight in Melee, so this doesn't actually do anything, Sirzechs' basket ball of destruction was said to equivalent to Rias' Extinguished Star, which was used to destroy the Core.

While those are feats, they aren't particularly impressive. Considering how Rias' Extinguished Star was cut apart by a Durandal Replica by Strada. Mind you, it was Issei who made the observation regarding Basketball of Destruction and Extinguished Star.

Hades? He tanked for a time Cao Cao's True Longinus, Tobio, Sairaorg, Strada's Durandal II, Dulio, Rias and everyone else along with Vali's Satan Lucifer Smasher, while beforehand he was using his power to bind and dodge Fenrir and shooting at Vali for however long it lasted. Even after, he was able to repel a Ingvild-Enhanced Vali and Issei's Cast Fists for a short time.

trihexa core was still strong enough to blitz issei in DxD mode, only for sirzechs to disintegrate its ass on the spot for trying to shank his little bro so that is pretty fucking impressive. also yes each of sirzechs basketballs was compared to rias extinguished star but here is the thing: he can make hundreds of those on the spot, to sirzechs this is the equivalent of a basic attack. let alone what he could do if he actually bothered to focus all that power in one single orb, or if he did his equivalent of an extinguished star

hades does not fight at melee range, but that means squat when sirzechs can make a beeline to him at speed equivalent to DxD issei if not higher while erasing everything thrown his way, or if sirzechs feels like just blowing everything up, or create his own hundreds of blackholes of PoD which he should be able to, considering like you said his basketballs were compared to extinguished star and that can be made to have a gravity field

rias needs like five minutes or so to charge it and hers are slow as fuck, to her its the equivalent of a limit break. now grab that and multiply it by a hundred in number, and that is sirzechs basic attack. that is the thing, all that power we saw? that is sirzechs using his most basic attack.

cao cao true longinus by his own admission could not kill ladon, rias extinguished star could. also if sirzechs basketballs can destroy trihexa core over and over then it can do the same to hades. sirzechs matches if not surpasses hades in every single aspect, hades meanwhile lacks any means to actually harm sirzechs while sirzechs can kill hades whit one attack. i dunno you, but that sounds very much like an easy victory for sirzechs

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

trihexa core was still strong enough to blitz issei in DxD mode, only for sirzechs to disintegrate its ass on the spot for trying to shank his little bro so that is pretty fucking impressive. also yes each of sirzechs basketballs was compared to rias extinguished star but here is the thing: he can make hundreds of those on the spot, to sirzechs this is the equivalent of a basic attack. let alone what he could do if he actually bothered to focus all that power in one single orb, or if he did his equivalent of an extinguished star

hades does not fight at melee range, but that means squat when sirzechs can make a beeline to him at speed equivalent to DxD issei if not higher while erasing everything thrown his way, or if sirzechs feels like just blowing everything up, or create his own hundreds of blackholes of PoD which he should be able to, considering like you said his basketballs were compared to extinguished star and that can be made to have a gravity field

Right... because the guy who can teleport instantly and evade Fenrir while fending off Vali with his latest upgrades is slower than DxD Issei. We have zero speed feats for Sirzechs beyond "disappearing". The best we have is that Sirzechs can react fast enough to fry the Trihexa Core while he is doing a "Omae wa mou shindeiru." Which isn't particularly helpful considering how it seems he was behind Issei when that happened.

Originally Posted by saucerKing

rias needs like five minutes or so to charge it and hers are slow as fuck, to her its the equivalent of a limit break. now grab that and multiply it by a hundred in number, and that is sirzechs basic attack. that is the thing, all that power we saw? that is sirzechs using his most basic attack.

Right, because Hades is going to stand there and let attacks hit him. Its not like he can dodge or teleport, or use magic. Also, Sirzechs was in his True Form. So no, it isn't his basic attack.

Originally Posted by saucerKing

cao cao true longinus by his own admission could not kill ladon, rias extinguished star could. also if sirzechs basketballs can destroy trihexa core over and over then it can do the same to hades. sirzechs matches if not surpasses hades in every single aspect, hades meanwhile lacks any means to actually harm sirzechs while sirzechs can kill hades whit one attack. i dunno you, but that sounds very much like an easy victory for sirzechs

He never said his spear couldn't defeat him. He was letting Rias kill Ladon.

“Come, Rias Gremory. Your enemy is in this hole. You can use all your strength to defeat him. Even if my holy spear can’t defeat Ladon, with your power of destruction, it’s possible to defeat him.”

Trihexa Core was attacking in Melee and wasn't defending himself from the attacks. Hades does defend himself and doesn't go into melee, even damaging Vali while fending off Fenrir. Trihexa core and Hades are two different beings with different fighting methods. We know the Power of Destruction can be... destroyed? nullified? whatever the term. So far, nothing that Sirzechs has actually shown us surpasses Hades by any significant margin, despite people's claims.

-----

We have very little feats for Sirzechs, and what we DO have isn't as impressive when actually looking at it compared to the claims that people keep making. We have seen that POD can be destroyed, and yet there are people who think that people like Indra or Hades can't do the same thing that Strada does to Rias with Durandal Replica.

In all honesty, this head canon that Sirzechs fanboys people keep espousing about and claiming to be fact is getting annoying. Feel free to claim victory or whatever. I'll drop this so a different subject can be brought up and move on.

[B214]

To be fair, we haven't actually seen any of the top 10 mentioned by Ishibumi fight each other unrestrained. I mean sure maybe there's the Azazel Cup where we seen some fight but then again those matches are also RG which the main purpose is to win over destroying or killing the opponent. If they're fighting to kill, it could be much different.

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by B214

To be fair, we haven't actually seen any of the top 10 mentioned by Ishibumi fight each other unrestrained. I mean sure maybe there's the Azazel Cup where we seen some fight but then again those matches are also RG which the main purpose is to win over destroying or killing the opponent. If they're fighting to kill, it could be much different.

Yeah. Hopefully when the Evies start attacking, we can get some feats when they fight seriously.

[Xuanwu]

I just wanna say, I am no Sirzechs fanboy and I used to argue that Sirzechs & Ajuka are not above the Heavenly Dragons. As in, I used to support Ddraig & Albion above Sirzechs (or at least on par with him).

But it seems pretty obvious to me now that these Super Devils are above Hades and the Heavenly Dragons. Sirzechs > Hades >~ Heavenly Dragons, is the way I see it.

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by Xuanwu

I just wanna say, I am no Sirzechs fanboy and I used to argue that Sirzechs & Ajuka are not above the Heavenly Dragons. As in, I used to support Ddraig & Albion above Sirzechs (or at least on par with him).

But it seems pretty obvious to me now that these Super Devils are above Hades and the Heavenly Dragons. Sirzechs > Hades >~ Heavenly Dragons, is the way I see it.

Fanboy might have been going to far. What I am referring to are the people who push for it and twist the words on the pages to fit their own narrative regarding characters. You are free to have your own beliefs and even discuss/argue about it in my opinion.

The point it becomes what I was talking about it when someone insert their own head canon into canon and unwilling to backdown because you like a character, rather than because of what is on the pages.

This isn't referring to anyone specifically, but here is an example of what I am talking about.

John Smith sees Adam Scott point his gun at him. John moves out of the way as Adam Scott fires his gun.

The people I am talking about will see this and claim that John Smith can dodge bullets, while the text itself is saying that John knew that he would be shot so he moved out of the way, making it that he aim dodged rather than bullet dodged.

[B214]

We know that Sirzechs' true form is something Hades couldn't take lightly and Ddraig who's a monster himself call Sirzechs' a "monster" after seeing his form. So it's not to exaggerate that Sirzechs' strength is at a level where even a Heavenly Dragon is impressed with.

[Fog Gate Boss]

Originally Posted by B214

We know that Sirzechs' true form is something Hades couldn't take lightly and Ddraig who's a monster himself call Sirzechs' a "monster" after seeing his form. So it's not to exaggerate that Sirzechs' strength is at a level where even a Heavenly Dragon is impressed with.

Yeah. I am fairly certain Ishi said that True Form Sirzechs and Serious Ajuka are on Top 10.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Fog Gate Boss

While those are feats, they aren't particularly impressive. Considering how Rias' Extinguished Star was cut apart by a Durandal Replica by Strada. Mind you, it was Issei who made the observation regarding Basketball of Destruction and Extinguished Star.

Mainly what I wanted to write for the reply is already written by other users.

Anyway Issei didn't say his balls are as powerful as Extinguished Star:

Issei said those balls have the same incredibly condensed amount of energy. The same quantity of Pod compressed, but the balls being formed by the demoniac power of Sirzechs is more powerful than Rias whose demoniac power is Ultimate-class.

Furthemore more of those balls have a destructive power higher than Scorching Flames.

[Marvix]

There is no proof Sirzechs' PoD is more powerful than Ddraig's flames.