GATE - Light Novel Discussion

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

psst..he does know this is a manga right?

hey I do know ya know....

[MrTerrorist]

Well scanlation of chapter 34 are out.

The Prince is an idiot if he thinks he can still threaten them.

[Lutz2]

Ah now i understand, what a Friend of me, have told me a Time ago.

Spoiler for Later Story Part:

He told me that the Idiot Prince starts a Revolt against the Emperor. But i didn´t realy understand why the Prince Revolts, now i get it. Because of Itami and the Emperor that joins later the Peace Fraction. You can see in this Chapter (34) that he is realy surprised of the Guns. And this is the Reason for the Civil War, between Father and Son, the Prince is realy pissed of the JSDF and wants to destroy Japan, the Emperor is intelligent enough to see that this War, the Empire can´t win so he wants Peace too. Poor Idiot Prince and poor Empire that he is the next in Thronline .

[XFire]

Well, that escalated quickly.

The psycho lieutenant girl is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Lutz2

Ah now i understand, what a Friend of me, have told me a Time ago.

Spoiler for Later Story Part:

He told me that the Idiot Prince starts a Revolt against the Emperor. But i didn´t realy understand why the Prince Revolts, now i get it. Because of Itami and the Emperor that joins later the Peace Fraction. You can see in this Chapter (34) that he is realy surprised of the Guns. And this is the Reason for the Civil War, between Father and Son, the Prince is realy pissed of the JSDF and wants to destroy Japan, the Emperor is intelligent enough to see that this War, the Empire can´t win so he wants Peace too. Poor Idiot Prince and poor Empire that he is the next in Thronline .

Well it's been hinted from previous chapters that Piña, the Emperor or earl Marcus don't think too highly of him. You'd say some even see him as a clown.

Spoiler for About the other prince not yet shown:

On the other hand from what I've read in spoilers, the other brother Diabo is the opposite. He's intelligent and cunning. Gonna be interesting when he's introduced too.

[Velsy]

Really interesting chapter, I loved it. Itami was boss. Dam now we have to wait a month for the next?

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

upon seeing 34....

I gotta wonder.... just how much stopping power does the 7.62x51 NATO deliver to plate armor since they look like just standard trooper and not the really heavy and armored royal guard like the old Papal Guard in Italy.

also, that bayonet movement reminds me of a mix of both the offensive bayonet of the IJA Arisaka rifle as well as the M1 Garand counters.

Originally Posted by Renegade334

So yeah, a 7.62x51mm/.308 should be able to punch through, if it's an armor-piercing (tungsten-tipped) model.

When practicing target shooting we generally shoot hanging or stationary steel plates of various thickness. AP rounds are never used because its a waste of money. And even using regular non-match FMJ 5.56 we all have seen them penetrate quarter inch steel plates at close range. a regular FMJ 7.62 NATO will penetrate steel even thicker than those. 3/4 inch of traditional steel at least is required.
this video shows it well :

The bayonet movement seen this chapter is standard bayonet drill learned in basic training for most first world armies: stab, slash, blocking and butt-stroke. though i personally know of no one who still utilize bayonet in combat. Even when we cleared houses in Afghanistan no one mounted bayonets, though we all did have a knife or 2 we preferred within easy reach of either hand.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

upon seeing 34....
I gotta wonder.... just how much stopping power does the 7.62x51 NATO deliver to plate armor since they look like just standard trooper and not the really heavy and armored royal guard like the old Papal Guard in Italy.

It wouldn't matter. Even 5.56mm will easily pierce through 6mm metal plates at over 100 yards...which is 2-3 times as thick as the heaviest medieval plate armor from Europe. 7.62mm Nato? Don't make me laugh. At this range it'd punch through multiple fully armored gothic knights.


There's a reason why after the advent of gunpowder, body armor use fell into significant decline. By the time you slapped on enough steel onto a soldier for it to offer a reasonable defense against long arms, the armor just got too heavy.

[Daniel E.]

Next person that asks for RAWs or even mentions any scanlation site, will get his/her ass banned on the spot. No warnings or explanations will be given.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

You do realize the Roman scutum is actually made of three sheets of wood glued together and covered with colored leather? The only things that are in metal on the front side are the stylized umbo (a boss) and spindle, right at the center of the shield, and those should only be a few millimeters thick in order to make the overall weapon light and maneuverable. The scutum itself was estimated (according to a few surviving examples) to be at least 10kg heavy and 5-6mm thick.

So yeah, a 7.62x51mm/.308 should be able to punch through, if it's an armor-piercing (tungsten-tipped) model.

It doesn't have to be armor piercing.

5.56 and 7.62 standard ball will both easily penetrate a scutum (or equivalent) at such short range. Likewise any ancient-era or medieval era breastplate, mail, etc. due in part to their level of metallurgical technology, and what that armor was designed to defeat. (High velocity ballistic projectiles not being on that list )

//break//

Spoiler for Kuribayashi:

That panel showing Kuribayashi licking her lips after reloading ("Neext!!") and the one later on p.27 when Itami orders her to get the prince to reconsider: I love her facial expression in both!! In the former she's looking at them over her bloodied bayonet, and they want no part of her. In the latter, she's standing next to Itami and looking down with a look that she might give to a cockroach that just crawled out from under a table. Very well done!

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

It doesn't have to be armor piercing.

5.56 and 7.62 standard ball will both easily penetrate a scutum (or equivalent) at such short range. Likewise any ancient-era or medieval era breastplate, mail, etc. due in part to their level of metallurgical technology, and what that armor was designed to defeat. (High velocity ballistic projectiles not being on that list )

I hardly think this is a matter of medieval metallurgy not being up to snuff. Steel just ISN'T an effective means to protect against bullets at the weight ranges humans can comfortably carry. I mean, in WW2 the Russians outfitted some of their soldiers with partial breastplates that were about as thick as Knight armor (2mm thick I believe) for protection against shrapnel...it COULD hypothetically defend against lower powered sub-machine gun rounds...provided it was a range over 100 meters. Which was already pretty extreme distance for a submachine gun. Anything less and it's going to just punch right through.



Steel is just not a reliable armor for infantry to wear as a defense against bullets. Not when the equivalent of a gothic knight can be torn to shreds by a guy with an MP5...there's really no question about it going through a scutum, which when you come down to it, is basically just wood.

[XFire]

Not that I mind all the info, but what exactly brought all this stuff on? Was there someone who didn't think modern guns could go through armor?

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by XFire

Not that I mind all the info, but what exactly brought all this stuff on? Was there someone who didn't think modern guns could go through armor?

It came from here.

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

I gotta wonder.... just how much stopping power does the 7.62x51 NATO deliver to plate armor since they look like just standard trooper and not the really heavy and armored royal guard like the old Papal Guard in Italy.

ZeKeR seemed to be wondering about whether or not rifle rounds would be able to stop guys more heavily armored than the dudes who recently got shot up in the latest chapter. So a couple people (including me) weighed in on it.

[Pesti13nce]

Why are we cluttering this thread about a manga/LN with modern guns... PM's imo

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

Why are we cluttering this thread about a manga/LN with modern guns... PM's imo

Well technically accurate depictions of the capabilities of modern guns is a fairly major aspect of the manga/LN. So it's not exactly an off topic subject.

It'd kinda like having a sports manga, and wondering why the thread is cluttered up with sports discussion.

[SineMora]

All right you primitive screwheads listen up!



You can find this in the sporting goods department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3Bz6cIPiw

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

It came from here.



ZeKeR seemed to be wondering about whether or not rifle rounds would be able to stop guys more heavily armored than the dudes who recently got shot up in the latest chapter. So a couple people (including me) weighed in on it.

thanks for teh defense XD

but yeah, the only thought I had pertaining to most is the anachronism at work since back then, if you'd want to slug someone with a gun then it would be something in the seat of the old bullet and powder shtick.

but that aside, I didn't know Roman armor was that bulky to prevent the wearer from being harmed by enemy edged weapons as well as AP arrows. I questioned it because I remembered armor thickness equivalent to the impromptu armor in technicals on what looked like crusader armor for the Knights Templar actually ricocheting a modern round a couple of times before it was punched through.

that and assuming the Empire has heavy infantry that is literally the most armored combatant in their world.

[Myssa Rei]

Talk on modern ballistic weaponry aside, I'm still puzzled at how, for a society where magic is treated at face value, there's a severe lack of, well, actual magical items. I mean, even the damage that Rory's axe deals seems less from enchantments, but rather the combination of the weight of the darned thing plus Rory's strength.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Talk on modern ballistic weaponry aside, I'm still puzzled at how, for a society where magic is treated at face value, there's a severe lack of, well, actual magical items. I mean, even the damage that Rory's axe deals seems less from enchantments, but rather the combination of the weight of the darned thing plus Rory's strength.

It was touched upon before, but in that world magic was "already losing" the militaristic race against "progress", in a sense of convenience of use and strength of effect. Naturally this is more noticeable on combat (notice how most combat mages so far can use relatively "modest" stuff that easily lose out to sheer troops numbers and excesive brute force).

I think this was in one of the speeches from Lei Lei's master (Kato was it?). Most of the H4x broken magic can only be used by Gods, and we haven't seen one so far.

[Pesti13nce]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Talk on modern ballistic weaponry aside, I'm still puzzled at how, for a society where magic is treated at face value, there's a severe lack of, well, actual magical items. I mean, even the damage that Rory's axe deals seems less from enchantments, but rather the combination of the weight of the darned thing plus Rory's strength.

The only magic I remember at the moment was the human (her name eludes me at the moment) putting that guy to sleep when they were at the hot spring. I honestly can't remember any more off the top of my head.