2009-01-06, 17:16 | Link #1101 | |
from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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With hidden intentions by those in power, Ranka is selected to be their singer, and they're right. Her voice can save lives, and Ranka sings. But later on, she comes to realize that her reason for singing is a very personal one, and it does go against what she is sent to do. Her heart isn't in the right place; she cannot take the burden, and because of this more tragedy is the result. This is all in episode 21.. or 22. (Frankly, I can't keep with you guys.) And I agree with what you say. She isn't ready to take on such a responsibility. But she takes it nonetheless. I find it baffling to simply say that she is just a manipulated child as if it can make everything better. Don't belittle her. Her situation is more than that. |
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2009-01-06, 17:23 | Link #1102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
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Ah. ok.
The tragedy starts earlier, where Brera opens what she has shut close and revealed where the power of her song comes from. Episode 17 to 20. And I think you did not understand what I meant with manipulated. It is because she was not ready for so much responsibility she has been manipulated. Something Leon and Grace took advantage of.
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2009-01-06, 17:28 | Link #1103 | ||
from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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Manipulated or not, she made her mark, she made her decisions—her own choices. Why should she get a free pass on everything? |
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2009-01-06, 18:10 | Link #1104 | |||||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Right, so going to the Vajra planet cannot be considered running away? You mean by confusing Alto, her friends and the entire Frontier population, then refuse to clear it up but instead opted for another planet cannot be considered as running away? Look, she failed to deal with her personal problems, and worse, she intended to drag Alto into the unknown. I've asked you many times, and I'd like you to clearly analyze this situation: First, did you really think it was rational for Ranka to take on an entire planet full of unknowns? Second, were there better alternatives? Certainly, Ranka had options. She could have consulted other people closer to him. Yet, instead of doing that, once she found out Alto would not OK her actions, she simply bolted. In her personal bubble, it would appear that unless you said 'yes' to her, unless you supported her 'goals', or unless you are Alto, you don't matter as a human being. Even Kawamori mentioned this in his character analysis of Ranka. Quote:
- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-01-07 at 16:47. |
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2009-01-06, 18:43 | Link #1106 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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- Tak
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2009-01-06, 18:54 | Link #1107 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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2009-01-06, 19:08 | Link #1108 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
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Ok now to make this Ranka related. My take on her behavior in episode 21 is that she had her heart in the right place, but it was a very naive decision. She genuinely wanted to stop the vajra and humans from fighting. And I give her credit for actually ignoring Alto and doing what she believed in despite him disagreeing. The Ranka from episode 14 would have crumbled and just followed whatever Alto said. But thinking that she along with her brother and ai-kun could just run off and stop the war was a bit irrational on her part.
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2009-01-06, 19:20 | Link #1109 | |||
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Also she was not ready to decide. I also do not think that Ozma who is her custodian would easily let this go through. It is easy to pass a responsibility on a kid with no custodian around. Quote:
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Last edited by Father Hentai; 2009-01-06 at 19:36. |
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2009-01-06, 21:22 | Link #1110 | ||||
from head to heel
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2009-01-06, 21:49 | Link #1111 | |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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Might have been better if Ranka asked for a second opinion or even a third opinion on the matter.
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2009-01-06 at 21:59. |
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2009-01-07, 00:03 | Link #1112 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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The anime version took way too much artistic liberties, making it something akin to your typical harem comedy. Not that its totally a bad thing, but its drastically different from its paper-counterpart. - Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-01-07 at 00:19. |
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2009-01-07, 01:13 | Link #1113 | |
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Hm, Brera and Ai kun?
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Last edited by Father Hentai; 2009-01-07 at 02:11. |
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2009-01-07, 02:59 | Link #1114 |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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I never suggested Ai-kun, how you came up with the idea of Ranka asking Ai-kun's opinion is all on your own.
First of all, asking only Alto of all persons isn't the right choice at that time. Alto has been been on edge, he gets into a fight with Mikhail and later Alto also got into a fight with Brera. Angry people are bound to make rash rather than wise decisions. Given Alto's situation, asking opinion from him... you could understand what sort of opinion he'd give to Ranka. Ranka could have told the whole story to Ozma instead, given the fact that Ozma and Cathy are the ones who later worked to discover that the Vajra's aren't really evil.
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2009-01-07, 03:12 | Link #1115 | |
from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
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If you're talking about her intentions of leaving, then Grace nor Leon's machinations have nothing to do with it. She decides to do so on her own. It is understandable, but that is not what people are criticizing about. It's whether her intention of doing so is smart or otherwise, whether she thought of it properly, or if it's the responsible thing to do. On the other hand, others have criticized her act as naive; some have thought of it as out of character, not adhering to how her character seems to be developing towards to. Moreover, her weaknesses, and perhaps the lack of character itself, is precisely what we're talking about here. It just so happens that many don't view them as such or disagree with them completely. Last edited by kujoe; 2009-01-07 at 03:24. |
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2009-01-07, 09:05 | Link #1116 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Again I'd like to reiterate the difference between someone being manipulated and someone making a bad decision, Ranka made a bad decision. Besides she could have more people than just Alto for their opinion on the matter, like Ozma, Michael, Luca, hell even her best friend. She could have asked for advice from more than one source. Also Ranka was not manipulated into not attending a parade being held in her honor, in order to find her pet. She was not manipulated into thinking that a simple stunt was a love confession. She was not manipulated into thinking she should die just because Alto didn't love her. She was not manipulated into leaving Frontier because things weren't easy anymore. Face it Ranka has made bad decisions through out the entire series By your logic if a 16 year old mass murderer were to get caught, and in their own defense claim that they did it because they were told to, even though they had a choice not to. You would let them off the hook just because in your mind if a person is manipulated they should automatically be forgiven for any crimes they have committed, and their crimes erased. Would you seriously say that to the faces of the friends, and family of the victims? Whether or not a person is being manipulated it doesn't erase the crimes they have committed, it doesn't relieve them of any responsibility. |
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2009-01-07, 11:46 | Link #1117 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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I don't wanna crash your party Father Hentai...I just wanna give out my 2 cents on this things..if you think I am crashing your party I can delete my comments as you request XD
And no harm to anyone, just replying the topic here... About Ranka only asking Alto for advice: Remember that Ranka has those tough bodyguards around her...the purpose of those bodyguard, in surface, is to protect her safety, but the real reason, is to block her from reaching out, so it will be easier to manipulate Ranka (Oh yes, I am going to that manipulate part XD) But Ranka tries to break the barrier and asks for outsider's help, yes she could ask ozma, but it proofs that she tries to reach out, and in her eye, Alto probably is a mature person to her (even tho to us it's another story), besides, I don't know Ozma is still young enough to climb between building XD (I kid on this part) Now manipulation, well, from my point of view, Grace manipulates Leon...Grace supports Leon to get power and destroy Vajra, while she uses the chance to get close to Vajra's home base and control those bugs..Now Leon gets not enough information about Vajra, if he knows Grace's ability to survive in other host, her intention and how powerful the Vajra can become once Grace controls those bugs, he might use other plans. In a sense, every single one in MF got manipulated by Leon. So for Leon he probably thinks Vajra is easy to be destoryed so he doesn't explore the option to "communicate" with Vajra and finds the true reason of Vajra attacking MF ...in results, everyone in MF is being manipulated by Leon, into thinking that fighting with Vajra is the only way to survive, which in the last episode shows that this is not the case. Now then Ranka running away and Macross Quarter's escape are the sign of breaking manipulation from Leon and Grace. Everyone says Ranka going alone is not smart...I agree she could handle better, but in a sense, Macross Quarter's escape is not that smart either...A single fleet going to Vajra's home planet is the same thing...to put it even further, how long the supply can last in MQ? They are doomed anyway in the long term...So the last thing I wanna say is, there are difference in anime and real life...as I used the blood test example in Sheryl in my previous post: When Grace tells Sheryl she has that disease, what she should do in real life is to go to hospital and have a complete body check...if her virus is contagious to human then she should stay in hospital (of course, ppl can say based on the past interaction, the virus probably is not contagious, but no one can be sure of anything, especially on vrius)...but what does she do in anime? She runs to Micheal and Klan...if that virus is contagious then Micheal and Klan have to Sheryl to thank and it will be a disaster for the whole MF...Let's be very clear that I don't blame Sheryl for this...but if ppl wants to be so strict, then Sheryl makes a huge mistake So that's all, hope I am not trashing your party Father Hentai and Dex-kun XD
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2009-01-07, 13:20 | Link #1118 | |
from head to heel
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 42
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A lot of manipulation occurs in the story. That's part of the plot, and Leon and Grace are meant to play the roles of scheming antagonists from day one. But what's significant here is not to justify every action by saying that everything is just spurred on by some outside force beyond the control of the characters, because in the end, everyone is manipulated in one form or another. It's really about the ideas of action and consequence—the idea of looking at characters as they cope amidst their circumstances. The idea of how they realize certain feelings, or how they go about their intentions. The idea of how they stumble and how they get up. The idea of failing and learning. It's on that level that we're criticizing Ranka and the writing of her character here, which is either lacking or not so convincing. It seems that everyone is on a different wavelength when it comes to the character. It's not just about the bigger picture—the grand scheme of things—for that's already simple enough on its own. It's also about the little things—significant choices and actions—leading to it. And there, I've said my piece. This is just going to go in circles, and truth be told, I'd rather be in the images thread. Last edited by kujoe; 2009-01-07 at 15:42. |
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2009-01-07, 15:31 | Link #1119 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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I signed up in the school of its not the destination that's important its the journey. So when I see that a character has done wrong the entire series, I don't care if everything ended up alright because it doesn't erase what they did. The thing with Ranka is that she looks young, and I'd bet anything that if she looked older, or just wasn't cute people would be a lot less forgiving. |
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2009-01-07, 20:30 | Link #1120 |
Izanami
Graphic Designer
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Since manipulation is in the picture, let's talk about attribution
See, most of the time if we attain success be it in sports, school, or hey, singing, we would attribute that success internally to our own personal competency: skills, brains, voice and what have you. However, if for some reason, we phail at life (e.g. the massacre of people and destruction of a colony ship because the attacker bugs won't listen to you sing), we attribute this to external circumstances: other people manipulating you hence it wasn't really, totally you at fault, other people breaking your heart making you want to die that's why you couldn't really sing well, the designers gave you a really, really, uber ugly slab of green hair, other people don't care, etc, etc, etc. Jackpot right there
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