2012-12-16, 16:37 | Link #1101 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And here the reasons for Kosugi's dissatisfaction appear: it's an ego thing. He just doesn't feel important anymore. It's natural for editors to not want to be obsoleted, but one question remains: why are the mangakas (as in Ashirogi Mutou) so set against it?
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2012-12-16, 19:50 | Link #1102 | |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 44
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They are so against it, because I believe is a traditional practice to place both value and respect towards the editors and, moreso, if they are senior than them, although they themselves have experienced many countless times of dissatisfaction, frustration, and disagreement with their editors in the past. Bakuman is after all adapted from a shounen manga, and shounen manga place importance in the value of bonds and victory gained from both the power of friendship and fighting spirit borned out from selfless self-determination. Self-determination can be translated as being headstrong, reckless, hot-headed, passionate, proactive, but nonetheless a selfless and generous kind of type. Now, what I consider evil is for an individual, group, company, or even form of government imposing that their belief is the only unique one for the rest of the world to follow. In that regard, I do not consider Nanamine falling in that type of evil, because he's not trying to make other mangaka like Ashirogi to impose his ways or views upon them, rather he only wants acknowledgement from them that his method can work and is another way to make manga, though he does so quite arrogantly. Ashirogi, on the other hand, falls in the stubborn good guy category that only one method, way of life, outlook, practice, or way of doing things makes them able and others to succeed. That is a method or view that has already been established since its inception many ages ago by their elders; what I term the old school fashion. Nanamine's method would be considered evil if he's forcing Kosugi to make him do something illegal which would be harmful for the latter's reputation and morals. However, as of know, he has been brushing off Kosugi aside and thus hurting the latter's pride as an editor. Nevertheless, Kosugi made himself accomplice to Nanamine by not reporting his methods to Jack, because the latter relying upon the help of strangers around the internet while he's contracted to Jack makes him violator of rules concerning breach and leak of information. Last edited by Guido; 2012-12-17 at 02:25. |
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2012-12-16, 22:42 | Link #1103 | |
~AD~
Join Date: Oct 2006
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If you are so passionate about one thing to the point you sacrificing all your other things to obtain it, then one person comes and say, "Hey, whats the point of your hard work? You can "cheat" it by *insert some lazy means here*" How is your feeling? Nanamine's way is one way to achieve a big hit, but to say, his work has no passion in it. He just want some quick way to gain popularity. He himself doesnt have passion in creating a good manga... And i didnt expect a twist there. He certainly got a good assistant... |
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2012-12-16, 22:49 | Link #1104 |
Eh?
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
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Though I can fully understand the pride that causes Ashirogi to be so adamant about resisting Nanamine's method, I personally know that there is a glaring, fundamental weakness with that method. I'd run into it when I'd first started doing what I do for a living, and no I'm not a mangaka. The situations just apply the same rules.
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2012-12-17, 09:53 | Link #1106 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Nakai working for Nanamine.
That's exactly why he wanted Nakai, just to make sure he beats Aoki. Even Nakai stumbled upon Nanamine's secret... I was right, Nanamine's ship was sinking steadily. He does have the talent, but his method was wrong. Nanamine has totally and completely lost it.
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2012-12-17, 14:49 | Link #1107 | ||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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But you could say the same about being chained to an editor you didn't even choose. Sasaki would say otherwise, especially in front of the mangakas, but an editor can drag you down as well as make you soar. Nanamine's just taking a different gamble, and why not? What I'm getting at is that while the man's a jerk, his idea deserved better than to be specifically targeted by veterans. Quote:
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And for all that, what has Kosugi done to show he was more than than "the 51st man"? Quote:
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2012-12-18, 05:36 | Link #1108 | |
~AD~
Join Date: Oct 2006
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So, the inconsistency shows up as he himself merely copying 50 person's ideas, instead of fusing the 50 person's into his own original idea.
I dont say taking advice from people is bad. But what Nanamine doing is just i take this and that, then put it in the manga. It has no soul, no passion, and lack of consistency. When the people starts to question him, yesh, he just told those people to GTFO... Quote:
Nanamine even doesnt draw much. He left most of his work to 14 assistants... Regarding sucking up to editors, does Ashirogi Muto suck up to Hattori? Editor is there to give an opinion about what is trending in the market, what is the best practice in the industry. If you can convince your editor that your manga is interesting, editor would certainly pass it. |
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2012-12-19, 02:05 | Link #1110 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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That's just more of his approach of quality through quantity.
His art is generally praised, and that can't come from his assistants. Not my point, which was that having a good rapport with the editor, or passion toward your work shouldn't matter. Producing quality work and keeping deadlines does. Quote:
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2012-12-22, 12:56 | Link #1111 |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 44
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Final Page 10: Examination and Provocation
This episode repeats more in-depth as to why Ashirogi roars out aloud why Nanamine's method is the wrong path.
In my previous posts, I overlooked one last issue: - Nanamine creates a manga that he cannot call his own: it doesn't have the passion of being done by a single person's creativity, wit, frustration, and desire. Instead, he relies from strangers' opinions to pick-up ideas from them, then he crams too many ideas into the storyline. However, Ashirogi raised the topic that it is not outright forbidden to use that kind of method like Nanamine does. Indeed, it isn't depending on the company, but Hattori, who represents Jack, countered that it is; likely, for Jack they value many parameters about the manga, including the author. Now, I saw how this episode condensed the pacing to focus special emphasis on Ashirogi's challenge to Nanamine's serialization, as well as going in-depth with the group of 50 people providing ideas to Nanamine. - Foreshadowing for future events later in this arc: 1. Ashirogi declared PCP will get Nanamine's serialization cancelled by 10 weeks. 2. Some or a few individuals from Nanamine's Internet group of 50 left due of protesting against picking a fight with another manga author, Ashirogi. 3. Mashiro thought about Nakai's departure from the previous season, as he lectured Nanamine over the phone that manga's a gamble with every author placing their hopes, pain, and efforts to write manga.... Guessed from me what happens by the end of this episode? Spoiler:
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2012-12-23, 19:33 | Link #1114 |
Free Opinions Available
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vacationing in the southern isles.
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With a little bit of luck that will be the last we see of Nanamine and we won't have to go through another arc of his craziness. The time would be better spent not rushing the other chapters quite so much.
From the previews it looks like they have to deal with both Nakai and a copycat in the same episode. The impression we have been given of Jack is that they don't want any bad publicity, so Ashirogi being connected to criminal activity could be bad news. Need more Eiji and Hiramaru. |
2012-12-25, 23:24 | Link #1115 |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 44
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Final Page 11: Impatience and Comeback
Merry Christmas! On-Topic I won't go in detail listing all the contents that were cut short from the manga when this episode was adapted from, however, there is one particular scene from the manga that didn't make it: Spoiler:
I think that scene was excluded, because it would have felt redundant to use it, since towards the end of the episode Kosugi arrived at Ashirogi's office pleading them to compete against Nanamine with the same story, once obtaining permission first from both the editor in chief and Hattori. BTW, I never thought that Nanamine besides being insane could behave that utterly like a jerk more in the anime than the manga. This episode itself with all unnecesary stuff cut out the pace became so tightened, so it could focus first-hand on Nanamine's psychosis once earning failure after failure and learning PCP keeping its rank intact and ranked higher than his manga. |
2012-12-30, 10:35 | Link #1116 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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PCP's got bad exposure 'cause of that copycat crime.
Even though it's continuing those two still felt bad. Looks like Takagi was impacted by the incident. Nakai snapped again... It was embarrassing. When Hiramaru joined the stupidity it kinda went crazy. Aoki sure is a popular girl. Takagi's doubts and worries tanked PCP's rankings. I'm glad they managed to work it out with a great idea for PCP!
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2013-01-04, 14:50 | Link #1120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Just watched episode 8, in all honesty I don't disagree with Nanamine. What he says makes full sense and I see why not? Manga is created in order for people to like it so what is wrong in asking people their opinion and trying to improve it based on it?
Ashirogi Muto themselves planned to base their work on fan letters back in season 2. Following advice blindly is wrong but Nanamine clearly knows how to manipulate those advises. To be fair his story sounds far more entertaining than PCP. Also editor's and fan advises are not that much different. Editors do it more professionalism but by the end of the day they still are the ones who correct authors and inspire them just like fans.
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Tags |
comedy, comic works, coming of age, shounen |
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