2007-01-17, 14:14 | Link #1141 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
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Let's see...ZERO system makes the Zero pilot have the think-ahead capacity of a supercomputer. On top of that, DX can't use it's OMFG PLZ STAND STILL giant cannon, and Heero actually DID try to use the TBR against Zechs in Epyon. Of course he missed, but if that thing hits (not TOO unlikely), then it's probably over.
Zero is FAR faster as it is basically a fighter jet/gundam hybrid, and DX is not really fast as he needs support (I believe the frost brothers took it to him pretty nicely). Zero all the way.
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2007-01-17, 15:38 | Link #1142 | |
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2007-01-17, 16:40 | Link #1143 | ||
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L1 Advantage: closest to the lunar power station than both L2 and L4 as well as being on the direct line of fire. Disadvantage: none that I could think of for now. So L1 is probably the best choice for Double X to engage in combat out of all three locations. Now, I don't remember if the transmitted beam can be directed (and/or to what extent). But if it can, then to compare L2 and L4: L2: Advantage: seems to be closer than L4 to the power station. Disadvantage: the beam has to be able to turn 180 degrees to reach L2. L4: Advantage: The beam doesn't have to turn as much to reach L4. Disadvantage: It seems to be the farthest location of the three. Now, since we are talking about super-microvave energy beam that travels quickly, the longer distance of L4 seems to be less of a disadvantage compared to the greater turning capacity needed to reach L2 since I don't even remember if the beam can bend. So, in conclusion: L1 >> L4 > L2 Quote:
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2007-01-18, 02:46 | Link #1144 | ||||||||||||||||
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By the way, would endurance be a factor? After all, we've seen Wing Zero run too low on juice to even use a beam saber. Quote:
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2007-01-18, 03:28 | Link #1145 | ||||
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2007-01-18, 09:00 | Link #1146 | |||
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2007-01-18, 21:39 | Link #1148 | |||||||
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2007-01-18, 22:20 | Link #1149 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
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Can I quantify the effectiveness of the ZERO system? Sure...
An average human being can take an exam consisting of 30 questions in one hour. Now, give him the processing and raw computing power of a supercomputer and that may very well jump to 100000 questions in one hour. Get it?
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2007-01-18, 23:56 | Link #1150 | ||||
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The arc of the microwave transmitter is probably much higher than you're suggesting. Garrod managed to use it when he was in space near the transmitter; this suggests a probable coverage of at least 40゚. With a coverage of 60゚ in all directions, the base would have been able to transmit to most of the points in the Earth sphere as long as LoS can be established, including the L4 and L5 points. Quote:
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2007-01-19, 04:27 | Link #1151 | ||||
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So, going back to your earlier statement: If you really want to know that, then the only answer is it depends on the user like any other tool, except even more so in the case of the Zero System. Otherwise, if you only want what it's been shown to be capable of, then all I know is that it gives a definite advantage on people who can utilize it properly. |
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2007-01-19, 10:04 | Link #1152 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
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The test questions was meant to show that the ZERO system amplifies the raw power of the computing mind. You know how computers can make 10000 decisions per second as opposed to a human taking 3 seconds for 1?
That's what I'm talking about.
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2007-01-19, 19:04 | Link #1153 | |||
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Moreover, the MAHQ description states that "the exact nature of the Zero System's operation is unclear", which means that it's not a very authoritative reference in this case. Quote:
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As an aside, the human brain is estimated to be capable of processing instructions much faster than the fastest supercomputers today. The reason computers do certain applications faster and more accurately is because human brains and computers work very differently.
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2007-01-20, 00:43 | Link #1154 | |
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2007-01-20, 03:16 | Link #1155 |
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Uh...only 1 of you guys has actually picked an MS to win. What the heck?
You've all just been nitpicking at flaws in the other's arguments and not the actual combat. TBR can destroy the DX if it gets a hit. TSC can destroy the WZ if it gets a hit. Both are equipped with 2 beam sabers and some sort of machine gun apparatus. The WZ has the advantage because of the Zero system. Based on Trent's analysis and collection data within the context of the show, it does enhance a pilots ability to fight. We see an OZ grunt performing waaaay over everyone else in the Zero's simulations. The DX has no performance enhancing effects. Gundanium is not only ridiculously tough, but it's also undetectable by radar and most conventional detection methods (mentioned numerous times in Gundam Wing). The DX is made from Luna Titanium, which we know nothing about or whether it's the same Luna Titanium from the UC, which has is literally nothing compared to the unstoppable power of Gundanium. The Wing Zero has the upper advantage, but it would be nice to have some solid performance specs for the DX since we don't know its full thruster output. It is "ligher" than the WZ though. |
2007-01-20, 08:50 | Link #1156 | ||||||
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As a side note, while the listed empty masses suggest that the combat masses are also very low, they are probably in the neighborhood of 50 tons (or greater) with a combat load. Otherwise, the Wing and Gundam X mobile suits would just float in water.
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2007-01-20, 16:00 | Link #1157 |
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Hey. Pick a side. You're destroying the fun this debate by just picking apart the arguments of both sides.
Can we really count those extra handheld weapons if they never appeared in the show? They were leftovers that Bandai decided to put into kit form. Otherwise, we'd never know they had existed. However, I doubt the beam javelin and double beam saber handle would make much of a difference. How is the advantage of the Zero System in question? It enhances the performance of the pilot. Given that both pilots are of high proficiency, one person has extra help while the other doesn't. Gundanium is about god damned invincible. It takes numerous beam shots to be able to damage it. I merely pointed that the material also has the other properties. The Luna Titanium in Gundam X is damageable by a lot of stuff, but is still pretty god damned strong, though not as strong as portrayed in Wing. Well let's see here. All throughout Wing, the bad guys always had a horrendous time finding out where the Gundams were hiding since they were invisible to almost all forms of detection. It wasn't until they were literally in view of their cameras or had their heat sources form the thrusters up could they be engaged. There's is no such problem stated in Gundam X. The Virsago and Ashtaron were detected numerous times by the Frieden, while the gundams in Wing were already getting first blood before someone spotted them. In the case of interference with the cameras, sensory detection would be most helpful. Being lighter means nothing. What's importance is the thrust-to-mass ratio. Since these figures aren't provided, it's necessary to derive them from the shows themselves. Well that's why I pointed out that it would be nice to know the mass. But being lighter does affect the ratio. We just need the thrust number. |
2007-01-20, 17:10 | Link #1158 |
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Wing Zero has 88150 kg, says MAHQ WZC profiles...
Really, the only things we can derive from this matchup is how much their weapons deal damage, and how good the mobile suits are, based on the show. Trying to derive a number from an animation (inconsistent ones at that) is both stupid and useless. Take Hamrabi for example, suck-ass on paper yet a monster with Yazan @helm. Food for thought. |
2007-01-20, 21:25 | Link #1159 | ||
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2007-01-21, 09:06 | Link #1160 |
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On the Zero System arguement, IMO, the System itself may give the pilot an advantage, but it doesnt necessarily make Wing Zero any faster, agile, durable, stronger or more powerful than it was before anyway.
What if we assume that XX's pilot is a super genius mathematician battle calculator who is also not afraid of death and is never distracted (something like say... a Coordinator)? The effectiveness of the Zero System IMO depends on the pilot and is mainly focused on the pilot rather than the actual MS performance. As said, the Zero System doesnt make the suit faster or give the TBR more power or anything - it just makes the pilot want to kill you in the best way possible that the MS can. Remember, there are also some things that the Zero System can't predict (as Heero kinda implied in EW). So unless we're taking into account the pilots, I'd say the Zero System isn't too much of an advantage. If I were to pick, I'd say Wing Zero. Because of the cheap tactic of being able to tuck the TBR under the shield while drawing out the beam saber - this is, IMO, an effective tactic because the user can fight a close combat battle while having the option of taking a quick pot shot at the enemy from a ready stance, plus the shield also covers and protects the rifle to some extent. I haven't seen much of XX in action, but I assume that the TSC is a little slower and probably has to stand still to fire (I have absolutely no evidence to back this up though), while Zero has seen to do decent maneuvering while firing the rifle. |
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