Index Novel Sales Figures and Discussion

[Kuroageha]

Oricon
15.　*7,273　*74,944　Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol.16

[LG-MAX 2.o]

well, the numbers perfectly reflect the current state of the series, so I think it's okay, no, it's all too well.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

well, the numbers perfectly reflect the current state of the series, so I think it's okay, no, it's all too well.

Well that what you think. I still think the series is good and am hype for the climax of the current Story Arc which should at least start next year.

[tsunade666]

its not just him. the sales reflect the majority.

the solid fans that still bought the series are around 50k solid. those are the people who waited for it or pre-order it. that's the initial sales. the succeeding ones are just fans that still liked the series and doesn't have another way to use their money -_- if there are more important items on the same day, they will prioritize it more.

placing index the same day as SAO is bad sales move but the 2 series should have the same level in terms of solid footing in the industry. SAO just had more fanbase being self insert there. Index or Kamachi is more of hit or miss in his series now. It tried to spread out in different fan base but it probably got mixed reception but it still selling so its good.

Light novel that is selling over 50k is still considered as a good sales. one of the better.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

its not just him. the sales reflect the majority.

the solid fans that still bought the series are around 50k solid. those are the people who waited for it or pre-order it. that's the initial sales. the succeeding ones are just fans that still liked the series and doesn't have another way to use their money -_- if there are more important items on the same day, they will prioritize it more.

placing index the same day as SAO is bad sales move but the 2 series should have the same level in terms of solid footing in the industry. SAO just had more fanbase being self insert there. Index or Kamachi is more of hit or miss in his series now. It tried to spread out in different fan base but it probably got mixed reception but it still selling so its good.

Light novel that is selling over 50k is still considered as a good sales. one of the better.

I believe the reason is because it a really long series which 40 books now and that the series is now 12 year old going on 13. Not only does that make Newcomer less likey but even old fans could start to give up on the series ending.

I am not one of the people who is giving up on this serie. I am also one of these fool to still beileve in a Season 3 coming but then again my hope is insane. I even had a dream of a Season 3 of NT in anime. Hope is the thing that die last after all. Even if a Season 3 of this Series is other but a pipe dream if you look at thing from the veiw of logic. Sound like I am pulling Touma which trying to use emotion to the crash the logical end of there never being a season 3.

[Kuroageha]

Isn't just that, wheter it was Kamachi's or the Editorial's decision, the NT series has tried to many things at once but unable to perform due to having too much in hands at the same time. It really doesn't helps they forcibly introduced a lot of discardable characters so intead while desregarding the others that were already there. As result the reader cares less and less as the series advances, just look, there is no proper direction.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Isn't just that, wheter it was Kamachi's or the Editorial's decision, the NT series has tried to many things at once but unable to perform due to having too much in hands at the same time. It really doesn't helps they forcibly introduced a lot of discardable characters so intead while desregarding the others that were already there. As result the reader cares less and less as the series advances, just look, there is no proper direction.

Meh. There's proper direction. I think that he's taking longer to make things clear though. I think NT is a lot more interesting to me than OT even if the quality is perhaps a bit lower. But he has climaxes in quality which are much better than OT, not to mention the best parts of NT should correspond to the best parts of OT, namely the end so it isn't really a fair comparison.

I think it's just subjective. I really like what he's been doing. Just because some people don't like Kamisato doesn't make the series bad. It just means that as it becomes more extreme with what it gives the readership, fewer people are willing to stick and read that sort of thing. It's a matter of taste. What the author wants to express is not what all readers want to read. I want to read this, which is why I still like it. I think dragonxx is the same as me.

And yes, I also hope for an Index III eventually, I'm just not optimistic about it happening anytime soon. And I think SAO should always out sell Index. This world isn't so good where as many people will buy something profound and serious as compared to how many people will buy something with self-insert and completely trashy gimmicks. Maybe SAO has its own appeals, and I DO like it, but I still think it's absolutely trashy.

[Natsurin]

You know Tsunade666 and Kuroageha's words aren't attacks to people who still enjoy the series, right? Why is it that every time someone brings up the very plain fact that people are starting to naturally lose interest in Index there's always one gang that rallies up on Kamachi's side to justify just how good NT actually really is when that's hardly the topic? It's not like Japan is discovering the concept of long-running series so if NT's performance, though good, is slowly dwindling by the release it means something's in the writing that just doesn't please people (potentially anymore) and while I could spend some time writing an essay that points out a lot of flaws NT has as OT's successor and as its own piece of work, that's hardly the topic here (and honestly I don't want to dedicate that much time to something that negative anyway, lol).

I'm sorry to say but constantly reaffirming your hopes that Index III will come out one day every two pages, while they don't make you a fool and are quite the respectable proof of love towards the series, certainly don't help the current situation either so why the entire taboo about bringing up the sales' performance anyway? 70k is a good amount of sales, just not what we'd expect from Index for those who were there during the boosted sales and it just means that it'll either have to step its game up or continue sliding down into possibly risky territory if it keeps going on for too long.

No amount of sympathy towards just how good NT actually is finds itself particularly on-topic here; we're supposed to talk about why the sales are doing poorly as opposed to justifying just why the sales should be good because of how great NT is when that is just as subjective if not more than the mindset that it doesn't live up to Index's name. In other words, this is a rather pointless discussion.

I mean, something has to be wrong when even swimsuit Misaki and Mikoto aren't enough to bait sales in anymore, right? In the summer, nonetheless? Even though Mikoto was the perfect sales bait-who-barely-had-any-actual-importance for NT3 and it showed?

[entei08]

NT3 worked because it was arguably the first bait and switch cover since Index reached its pinnacle of success, in the midst of anime airing no less. When the same trick is repeated over and over it quickly loses effect, simple as that. Just like NT7's cover didn't help even though Railgun S was airing. People were likely still scarred by NT4.

These tricks cheapens the whole thing, both marketing and the actual content. This time the short one liner they wrap on the cover is in on it too. Seriously, what good does it do? New readers are still daunted by the number of volumes they have to catch up, while old readers (including the ones that have already given up) are only reminded of the bitter experience when they got tricked by this the first time. It honestly boggles my mind as to why anyone in Dengeki still think these covers and previews are a good idea to help the sales (if that was their intention). If we go back to normal covers like nearly all of OT and the sales are still diminishing, I find that more acceptable, now it just feels like some people are not going to buy it out of spite for the cover.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by DragonXX

I believe the reason is because it a really long series which 40 books now and that the series is now 12 year old going on 13. Not only does that make Newcomer less likey but even old fans could start to give up on the series ending.

I am not one of the people who is giving up on this serie. I am also one of these fool to still beileve in a Season 3 coming but then again my hope is insane. I even had a dream of a Season 3 of NT in anime. Hope is the thing that die last after all. Even if a Season 3 of this Series is other but a pipe dream if you look at thing from the veiw of logic. Sound like I am pulling Touma which trying to use emotion to the crash the logical end of there never being a season 3.

Season 3 of Index will happen. its just a matter of when and not will.

Look at Shana. It did eventually had season 3 though it didn't help much because of the gap in between each season. the anime flop but it still helps in reminding the viewers of Shana is ending.

Index 3 will eventually have it. Maybe next year? the sales for index is bad. Its not bad if you compare it to the other lower ranking novels but its bad for Index level type of light novel.

As for the long running series. I gotta agree there. It sure is a long running one and new readers would be having hard time to read it or even bought it. So they are being put off by it.

but then again, if the series is really that GOOD. Then no matter how long it is. It will still have new readers. Look at One piece. Going strong. Hajimme no ippo is like... forever? then there is also conan that is having a yearly movie. Still strong but they are manga and main stream but still, having a long series doesn't hindrance new readers if the story is really good.

Originally Posted by entei08

NT3 worked because it was arguably the first bait and switch cover since Index reached its pinnacle of success, in the midst of anime airing no less. When the same trick is repeated over and over it quickly loses effect, simple as that. Just like NT7's cover didn't help even though Railgun S was airing. People were likely still scarred by NT4.

These tricks cheapens the whole thing, both marketing and the actual content. This time the short one liner they wrap on the cover is in on it too. Seriously, what good does it do? New readers are still daunted by the number of volumes they have to catch up, while old readers (including the ones that have already given up) are only reminded of the bitter experience when they got tricked by this the first time. It honestly boggles my mind as to why anyone in Dengeki still think these covers and previews are a good idea to help the sales (if that was their intention). If we go back to normal covers like nearly all of OT and the sales are still diminishing, I find that more acceptable, now it just feels like some people are not going to buy it out of spite for the cover.

I also agree here. NT 3 is a good bait for misaka readers. The anime is still fresh in the minds of the viewers and they would love more of misaka here but NT 3 is a TRAP they've been hit but unlimited bait works.

Succeeding NT books doesn't help either.

Readers aren't dumb. Well... there are some but not all.

Some buy it for hobbies or waifu but for people who really love reading? shakes head. This type of marketing move is wrong. It would be a huge put off for those type of people.

While those are minority and the majority are OTAKU people. Otaku pandering nowadays is kinda hard. With godsueya and gayrito taking center stage. People's taste are changing. There are also ecchi fan service explosions lately from light novel adaptations. New readers are more onto those type or main stream and index is bordering main stream but the setting and story is a bit more complicated. It doesn't help that its a very long running series and people need to read earlier volumes to know what's happening. That is a huge turn off for new readers that want CASUAL READING.

The cover trick.... I don't know. Its a bait works but its not working for index. Sure, it helps for normal harem pandering light novel but index has serious side.

I liked the cover more of OT. Especially Aqua and the princess cover. The cover for OT are more straightforward type than the NT, surprise surprise thing.

But then again, Index cover isn't that much of a bait if you compare it to other series. But then again, those are low level harem stories.

If I compare it to the likes of SAO. It's passable?

My favorite cover of NT are 4, 6, 9, 10, and 14. The contents are okay for me too.

[Flames]

Index drop in sales is sad too see, but I understand why it's happening. Besides the bait covers every-time it seems like Kamachi is going somewhere with the story it feels like he hits a reset. It's just get tiring after a while on him keeping on doing that, even if he does eventually build up momentum for stuff to happen again. Plus, characters old or new constantly keep getting swamped out for more new characters which leads to less interest to getting invested in characters to continue to follow the story for.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Natsurin

You know Tsunade666 and Kuroageha's words aren't attacks to people who still enjoy the series, right? Why is it that every time someone brings up the very plain fact that people are starting to naturally lose interest in Index there's always one gang that rallies up on Kamachi's side to justify just how good NT actually really is when that's hardly the topic? It's not like Japan is discovering the concept of long-running series so if NT's performance, though good, is slowly dwindling by the release it means something's in the writing that just doesn't please people (potentially anymore) and while I could spend some time writing an essay that points out a lot of flaws NT has as OT's successor and as its own piece of work, that's hardly the topic here (and honestly I don't want to dedicate that much time to something that negative anyway, lol).

I'm sorry to say but constantly reaffirming your hopes that Index III will come out one day every two pages, while they don't make you a fool and are quite the respectable proof of love towards the series, certainly don't help the current situation either so why the entire taboo about bringing up the sales' performance anyway? 70k is a good amount of sales, just not what we'd expect from Index for those who were there during the boosted sales and it just means that it'll either have to step its game up or continue sliding down into possibly risky territory if it keeps going on for too long.

No amount of sympathy towards just how good NT actually is finds itself particularly on-topic here; we're supposed to talk about why the sales are doing poorly as opposed to justifying just why the sales should be good because of how great NT is when that is just as subjective if not more than the mindset that it doesn't live up to Index's name. In other words, this is a rather pointless discussion.

I mean, something has to be wrong when even swimsuit Misaki and Mikoto aren't enough to bait sales in anymore, right? In the summer, nonetheless? Even though Mikoto was the perfect sales bait-who-barely-had-any-actual-importance for NT3 and it showed?

Spoiler for for length:

To be honest, it's because all of you are criticizing the writing, I like it, and I like pointing out that I disagree with your opinions. I didn't criticize the people; I didn't tell them to stop saying negative comments; I was just disputing their claims about the series itself. I like NT much more than OT so I was pointing out that their analysis of the state of the series is wrong in my eyes. I mean, just because you agree with their analysis doesn't mean I can't provide my own contrary opinion. That sounds like reverse censorship if you don't want me to weigh in positively about it just because I have an opinion that is different from theirs. (I'm sure this isn't your intention though so don't worry about that.) I just disagree with a lot of the negative comments I'm seeing here because I just fundamentally disagree with your opinion that NT is weaker than OT.

Like, I understand why less people like it now. It's because it's getting more meta. I said that previously. The fact that the scope of the series is narrowing doesn't make it worse. It means that less people will enjoy following it and that's simple. He took a risk with Kamisato. And I'll admit, I don't like it very much. However, in terms of the meta structural level of what he is doing, I like it so much, that it's making me overlook all of my feelings about the current level of his writing. His ideas, and his way of pushing these things and analyzing them has just continued to vastly improve ever since the start of NT for me. This is what I personally have always liked about this series. Yes, maybe we're getting characters that are making it feel more annoying at times. But the thing is, he's trying for more, and I personally appreciate it, because I think it's amazing that this series is even trying to incorporate elements that are the literal opposite of what it used to embody when the whole point of the series itself is understanding different ideologies, so that actually includes incorporating the ideologies that clash with the series itself. These are the sorts of reasons I respect NT more. Traditionally, the writing in OT is better. Probably. Maybe some people take it even further and think NT is better. I don't personally that, but I have to say. For me, NT is much more meta, and it goes a lot further in exploring something interesting with all of the things built up from the beginning of OT, than OT ever did. NT has questioned its foundation so many times that I love it. If what you appreciate about this series, is the original foundation, then of course you'll not like the new stuff as much. But that's the point I'm trying to make. It really is a difference in taste and opinion rather than me praising that's necessarily getting worse. Sure, it's harder to write well because of the ideas he's incorporating, but it has always been that way. And I think that with more character development and time, like usual, the quality will go up, because that's his forte for me. He does wonders with character development as long as there's enough substance there to do things with it. In Kamisato's case, there isn't much. We've already all gone through these periods where we absolutely hated characters and then they were developed and then we felt completely opposite about it. And I just feel that this is one of those times, and we'll all mostly feel opposite about it a few volumes from now after he finishes developing Kamisato and his 100 girl harem. And this is why, I'm trying to make my own point. I think all of you are missing the trend and failing to see the big picture, so I'm trying to carefully give my own perspective, which I've carefully accumulated after spending a lot of time thinking about the series itself. After all, I have followed this for a while.

And don't get me wrong. I know it has its weaknesses. I'm not just a fanboy. I'm trying to write my own novel series eventually, and I'm inspired by this series and other series, and I want to try to eventually make something of higher quality regardless of how impossible that might be in reality. But even then, I have gained a lot of faith in the author after constantly having seen him introduce ideas in later novels that shed completely different light on events in previous novels that really just made me love his characters. One of my ideals and one of the ideals of this series is people who are completely different getting along. And that's the point of this writing, and that's why I like to see such different types of characters interacting with each other.

So what if it leaves a bad aftertaste? That's the whole point. It isn't supposed to be easy. It's supposed to feel crappy. But the whole exercise in itself, what it is exploring, what it is trying to do, makes it worth it for me. Because there's this meta component in the meantime that I really enjoy seeing. I don't just have blind faith in Kamachi, I make guesses about what he is trying to do and I extrapolate based on the past. I think that elements of the series have seemed weaker ever since NT 10, but in reality, he surprised all of us in NT 15 with Yuuitsu stealing Kamisato's hand. And now at the end of NT 16, he even got exiled. I think that Kamachi has a tighter hold of the reigns of Index's plot development than all of us might generally believe. I don't know what to speculate, but he has disappointed me for so long, that I've gotten to the point where I'll strongly support him and claim that when I see these comments saying that something is missing, I just honestly disagree. It's his own personal style. An author has to be true to their own style. Sure, if the audience isn't willing to follow it, it's because the author's style isn't persuasive enough, or his rhetoric fails. Kamachi in my opinion is an idea person. He isn't exactly Churchill. But he has incredible ideas, and that's why I read him. He describes ideas and understands very meta things so damn well. That's just something I really respect. This just makes me always want to interject when I see these one-sided opinions which for me completely miss the point. Sure people are getting fed up with this. Often times people stop reading long series because they just don't feel like investing the money and effort. I personally think a lot of people are just sour about the lack of Index III. This is really a huge possibility you know. This is why I'm just keeping an open perspective. I don't know how to feel about it. I think that some people who miss the old things are justified in feeling sad that it has changed. But it's from my perspective just how the original fans of Railgun season 1 complained about Railgun S. For the people who read the manga, Railgun S was WAY better. But the original season 1 fans were looking for something else. Those of you who seem to hate NT and say it is worse because it abandons its original sort of atmosphere are making this exact same mistake. Kamachi as an author is trying to tell a story. If it so happens, that Railgun S, or NT is where he wants to go with the story, then perhaps it's just that you don't particularly like what he's saying, his direction, or his ideas. But that doesn't make the writing itself bad. It just means you don't want to see that. You want something else.

I realize that this is always incredibly frustrating to see especially with something that you really like. But the thing is, and I've been trying to say this, Kamachi is the author. He doesn't write to please the fan base. The fan base exists to applaud the author for writing something that they enjoy. But the author is the only thing in that equation that HAS TO STAY. I'm not telling you all to leave. I like all of you as users (and as people) and I enjoy having you here. It's just frustrating for me to see you all ask for something that isn't here anymore. It's gone. It isn't worse. You just don't want it. That's my problem here. It's like you're not getting the wish fulfillment that you want or you're not getting your wishes fulfilled in having this or that in particular portrayed. Wish fulfillment is probably too vulgar of a term, but me saying this doesn't make me a fan boy. I just personally really enjoy the content. I have high standards for what I read and what I like, and I can tell you that I refuse to automatically like anything, and only by being amazing can something draw me to it. And saying otherwise is just insulting how I use my time. So this is why I'm trying to explain that I feel entitled to share my contrary opinion as well and defend the series when I see you all portray it negatively and worse and analyze the trends in this matter. There are tons of reasons it could be doing worse. Stupid reasons. In fact, it could be that the sales on Amazon like I've said before are actually doing just fine and so it's actually still selling over 100k. Maybe Index fans in particular don't care about hard copies because they are idea people. I don't know. I just think that it's unfair to complain about me giving my own different opinion from yours.

Anyway, I'm sorry about the harshness of the original version of this message, but yes, I was offended by your response, and so I sent this like that.

On a side note, I wanted to say that I went to anime saboten today. I picked up some index stuff which was actually findable. I got an index/hyouka Keychain and an index librorum prohibitorum pen. (Finding Index stuff at a convention in the U.S. felt amazing btw.)

Anyway, I don't want to create animosity here. It's just that if you insult this series and analyze it in a way I disagree with, then I'll pitch in with my contrary opionion. I'm literally clarifying for others what I think is actually true and that's perfectly reasonable IMO.

Finally, I actually personally think season 3 will happen. I do like the series and it's my respectable belief that it'll happen down the line. Full metal panic took ten years to happen. Therefore, I'll continue to believe that it'll happen until it is confirmed it won't. I mean, I have nothing to lose anyway.

I guess I just want to convey to you that I don't understand the overly harsh critical tone of your message. And I'm sorry if I came across too aggressively, but seeing you repeatedly criticize my own posts is very frustrating to me. Please understand that.

[Natsurin]

I didn't read the first version of your message, but nonetheless I think you sincerely misunderstood my post here so you have my apologies for that. I'm not going to reply to most of your message since, frankly, that debate was never my intention but please bear with me for a bit.

I don't mean to say accept NT criticism and don't argue against it, my point really was that ultimately this thread is here to discuss sales and potential reasons why they're dropping. A debate on which is superior between OT and NT and why NT is an underappreciated sequel does not belong here and I never had the intention to imply that people who defend NT should keep it quiet. It's just that the behaviour of writing defensive walls as to why NT is a good work whenever someone brings up the reality that sales are gradually decreasing is a bit annoying because, again, that's not what the original talk was about and it just brings us back to a topic that's already been discussed to death and brings unnecessary animosity between those who like NT and those who don't.

As a personal request, though, please stop bringing up my preference for OT so much. In this case especially as it has little to no relevance to the matter. I am capable of putting my feelings aside in a discussion and seeing it being brought up nearly all the time makes me feel like people view my opinions as standing solely on the value that I prefer OT when that is simply not true. My own enjoyment of NT has risen since NT13 anyway to a point where I'm actively following and discussing the series so I don't solely base my words off the "old Scrooge habit of favouring old things".

[Kuroageha]

Wow, spoiler that post dniv, no way I can read that without taking breaks.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Natsurin

I didn't read the first version of your message, but nonetheless I think you sincerely misunderstood my post here so you have my apologies for that. I'm not going to reply to most of your message since, frankly, that debate was never my intention but please bear with me for a bit.

I don't mean to say accept NT criticism and don't argue against it, my point really was that ultimately this thread is here to discuss sales and potential reasons why they're dropping. A debate on which is superior between OT and NT and why NT is an underappreciated sequel does not belong here and I never had the intention to imply that people who defend NT should keep it quiet. It's just that the behaviour of writing defensive walls as to why NT is a good work whenever someone brings up the reality that sales are gradually decreasing is a bit annoying because, again, that's not what the original talk was about and it just brings us back to a topic that's already been discussed to death and brings unnecessary animosity between those who like NT and those who don't.

As a personal request, though, please stop bringing up my preference for OT so much. In this case especially as it has little to no relevance to the matter. I am capable of putting my feelings aside in a discussion and seeing it being brought up nearly all the time makes me feel like people view my opinions as standing solely on the value that I prefer OT when that is simply not true. My own enjoyment of NT has risen since NT13 anyway to a point where I'm actively following and discussing the series so I don't solely base my words off the "old Scrooge habit of favouring old things".

Okay, I understand. I won't mention that fact. I think I misinterpreted your message again lol. Anyway, though I just wanted to point out that from PoV, I don't actually know if sales have gone down all that much. It could be perhaps that Amazon sales or some other mediums Oricon doesn't track have increased like the digital sales for Dengeki Bunko's new electronic thingy. This is why I was pointing out that I feel like the discussion itself is maybe misguided because there might not be much of a drop in sales.

And I also wanted to point out that I think it might be possible that the sales are dropping because of petty reasons like I said about Index III not being out yet and because it is a long series. I do understand your claim though about the quality itself as I gave my own opinion about that in my post above, and I included that because I think that looking at the series itself is sort of telling and even necessary for understanding how the fandom reacts to it and how that affects its sales.

Anyway, I was just a bit excessive in my old version of the post in terms of thinking you were trying to attack my opinion. But then I thought better of it a few hours later once I gained access to a computer and read your entire post and saw what you actually meant without having phone vision of it.

[Tiken]

Well, one of the points that was brought up was that so many things have been tried, that it is becoming harder and harder to elaborate on things that are brought up (most especially the technobabble imo - which usually amounts to an analogy instead of an actual explanation on how or why something works.) Part of that is due to the impossibly large genre list that Toar encompasses. Honestly, the thing I miss most is how real actual topics of scientific value were explained in a way that was believable. Though the further along the story goes, it's becoming harder and harder to compare the things happening in Toaru with the real world.

Maybe that's what its been missing nowadays. A sense of partial realism.

Back in old testament, when Touma got hurt, his injuries were believable.

Actually, now that I think about it, when was the last time he has actually been seriously hurt?

I think it was back when Rensa was currently having her freakout.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Tiken

Well, one of the points that was brought up was that so many things have been tried, that it is becoming harder and harder to elaborate on things that are brought up (most especially the technobabble imo - which usually amounts to an analogy instead of an actual explanation on how or why something works.) Part of that is due to the impossibly large genre list that Toar encompasses. Honestly, the thing I miss most is how real actual topics of scientific value were explained in a way that was believable. Though the further along the story goes, it's becoming harder and harder to compare the things happening in Toaru with the real world.

Maybe that's what its been missing nowadays. A sense of partial realism.

Back in old testament, when Touma got hurt, his injuries were believable.

Actually, now that I think about it, when was the last time he has actually been seriously hurt?

I think it was back when Rensa was currently having her freakout.

I agree with you there. Ever since NT 9, Touma has sort of seemed to exist like an untouchable cheat code, like it's obvious that he's being protected by something somehow... maybe. I mean, I suppose this isn't necessarily the case. But it has sort of felt that way...

[Kuroageha]

And that's what kills the tension, we all know Touma won't die but giving him serious damage takes that tension and thrill up.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

And that's what kills the tension, we all know Touma won't die but giving him serious damage takes that tension and thrill up.

Well he could always suffer a Third Death but I seen want to know what the Second Deaths mean because none of the who knows how many time he die to Othiuns counted as a Third Death. Last time Touma took huge amount of damage was in NT10 he took so must damage by the time NT11 came out he was seen in the hospital clothes in that book. Also in NT14 he took some serious damage but do to it only being his Right Hand it grew back right after but not before ruining Kamisato day. He also took some serious damage at the beginning of NT16 which his heart stopping and his classmates using a car battery to bring him back.

It funny from the moment Kamisato play a big role in NT14-NT16 he bet the one taking all the serious damage. First get his day ruin by IT, Second get his Right Hand cut off and stole, and last got WR.

I guess which Kamisato gone Touma will have to take all the serious damage again.

I do think the real huge thrills are coming now that the Climax of the Current Story Arc is just around the corner because how Kamachi has try to make his Story Arc 10 volumes long. The real question is what will be the Aftermath of the Climax and because he bring up OT16 in the Afterword of NT16 when he try to make bigger wave then OT16 which he kind of did because Element did more damage to AC then Acqua of the Back did but if he try to make bigger wave then OT20 in NT20 which I think will be the end of the Story Arc. What will be a bigger wave then the beginning of WWIII?

I also believe that the next Story Arc or the Story Arc after that will have all of OT and NT tie together or at least all of NT like the GRS Arc did which OT. Specially if my thoery that the Archangels will play some kind of role in the Next Story Arc turn out to be true.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

And that's what kills the tension, we all know Touma won't die but giving him serious damage takes that tension and thrill up.

Meh it depends. If you like shonen, then I don't think you care. It's not like you thought Naruto was actually going to die while reading Naruto.