2014-04-18, 01:11 | Link #1161 | |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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Quote:
As for Stannis, his claim is, if the facts are considered, the lawful one. Robert had no trueborn children (it's obvious who the father of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen is) and Stannis' claim would have legal precedence over the bastard sons by Westeros (and most RL monarchical) law. But those bastards have a better claim than any of Cersei's children do, as they are at least Robert's children.
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2014-04-18, 07:29 | Link #1162 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Because they don't have blood tests, so as far as anyone alive knows that would say anything, Joffrey was his oldest son. The bastards don't count because anyone who knew about them when it mattered was dead or wants the the throne for themselves.
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2014-04-18, 07:52 | Link #1163 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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You sound very confident. Secrets like that (and this is not a book spoiler, just a general observation) have a way of getting out no matter how much the affected parties try to stamp them out - it's like catching smoke in a fishing net.
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2014-04-18, 09:11 | Link #1165 |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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This isn't some situation where you need irrefutable evidence to "prove" your case. Why do you think Tywin has been working so tirelessly for years to try and keep rumors about Jaime's children contained? If these bastards are no threat to the status quo why did even jon Arryn work so hard to cover up their existence (while stashing them for potential further use)? They know the damage these things can do in the court of public opinion, and if the right people were to testify either about that or about Robert's illegitimate children, citing first-hand knowledge themselves, in this time and place that could be enough.
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2014-04-18, 11:01 | Link #1166 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philippines
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I forgot exactly which book discussed it but Westeros has a clear cut law regarding bastards:
They have no right of inheritance. Everyone might know that Jon Snow is Eddard Stark's son but he'll never inherit Winterfell even if all of Ned's children die (and he was not a member of the Night Watch). Same is true for all of the late King's bastards. So the only legitimate claimant would be Stannis. I've skipped some episodes of the TV series so this may not be the case in the TV version?
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2014-04-18, 12:25 | Link #1167 | |
Shitpost Gremlin
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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To add to this point. There were real life precedents where rumors had been the undoing of people who were the subjects of those. Rumors about the Templar Knights' heresy and homosexuality were enough to bring their downfall, the men of the King of France having worked well enough to have people believing it. Then you had the accusations of incest againt Marie-Antoinette that definitely turned the courtroom against her. It didn't matter if they are true or not. |
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2014-04-18, 13:49 | Link #1169 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Quote:
Ned was appointed Regent for Joffery after Robert died (Robert even signed it into law), but Cersei stole that appointment from Ned when she orchestrated her own mini-coup against the former regime, so now she is Regent but there is no specific reason she has to be Regent again now that Joffery is dead. The Small Council will appoint whomever they feel can best lead the country till Tommen comes of age...well, they'll appoint whomever is most powerful (which should be Tywin). That being said, I am unsure why anyone would continue to call her Regent unless Joffery was not in charge, or the showrunners were using Regent similarly to how former Presidents are still addressed as such (which is not the case with royal titles). Whatever the case, the moment Joffery and Margaery married, Cersei was no longer Queen, she was a Dowager. |
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2014-04-18, 18:13 | Link #1170 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Hopefully they'll wisen up and wait till he comes to an at least half-decent age though. Hopefully they've learned all too well what can happen when you hand over that type of power to some adolescent spoiled brat. |
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2014-04-18, 18:45 | Link #1171 | |||
Behold! We are the Nine!
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sendai, Japan
Age: 39
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Now the rumors are meaningless unless Stannis wins the war. Quote:
The Lannisters are in power now so any rumors against them is meaningless. Quote:
Can you prove that the son of a black haired father and blond haired mother must have black hair? Using Westeros-level knowledge and technology of course. |
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2014-04-18, 19:09 | Link #1172 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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There's a reason Ned was eliminated beyond the simple fact that he was antagonistic to the Lannisters. He knew Joffrey was not Robert's legitimate heir. He didn't have a DNA test in hand, but Cersei saw the writing on the wall if Ned were not to be silenced. The only difference now is there's no one barking up that tree... for the time being.
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2014-04-18, 20:39 | Link #1173 | |||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Roberts bastards collectively were a big deal (to the Lannisters and Jon Arryn) because there were TONS of them, and all of them to a one were dark haired like their old man. Edd even noted that one of them (Gendry) was a dead ringer for Robert when he was younger. This is in marked contrast to Roberts "legitimate" children, who are about as blonde haired Aryan as they come. When combined with the genealogical records that indicate that the Baratheon line seems to ALWAYS produce dark haired offspring (even when paired up with blondes like the Lannisters), it created a very compelling argument that Cersei's children were all illegitimate, which is kinda sorta absolutely high treason. The Bastards were being sheltered/tracked by Arryn because they'd be vital evidence in exposing Cersei's adultery and the illegitimacy of her offspring. No one was seriously contemplating putting any of them on the Iron Throne. Quote:
As has been Quote:
I suppose to modern people used to DNA evidence solving everything this might not seem absolute enough, but to unscientific medieval persons, this is the most concrete proof they can imagine.
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2014-04-18 at 20:52. |
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2014-04-18, 23:38 | Link #1174 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I do wonder if Tywin knows of his children's...proclivities. I am unsure if there is any specific indication that he knows for sure that his grandchildren are a little more closely related to him than they should be, or even if he cares. A Lannister on the throne is his desire, so I expect an inbred hick of a Lannister, while not ideal, would still sufficient for Tywin's ambitions. Still, I wonder if he knows...
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2014-04-19, 05:52 | Link #1175 | |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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Quote:
Indeed, if I would say Tywin has one blind spot, it's Tyrion. Not that he doesn't realize Tyrion is the smartest of his children - he's grudgingly admitted it - but his hatred for Tyrion over his wife's death doesn't allow him to utilize Tyrion's talents to anything like their maximum potential value to him.
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Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2014-04-19 at 08:03. |
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2014-04-19, 05:53 | Link #1176 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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He'll never acknowledge it though. Not even privately to chastise his two oldest children for doing something so risky. That's how toxic this thing is. Even without the Iron Throne, it would see two of his children, and three of his grand children executed. And Tywinn simply won't accept that outcome. Quote:
His hope in Jamie keeps him from more than begrudgingly accepting that Tyrion is the most competent of all his children, and the most similar to himself.
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2014-04-19 at 06:12. |
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2014-04-19, 08:05 | Link #1177 |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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I think the interesting question is whether Tywin would still have hated Tyrion if he hadn't "killed" his mother during childbirth. Would he have been able to see past the physical and understand how brilliant Tyrion was if not for that tragedy?
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2014-04-19, 12:05 | Link #1178 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Quote:
Still. Tyrion's mother surviving the birth probably would have done allot to ease Tywin off his hatred of Tyrion. I can't imagine it helping with Cersei, since Cersei is just sorta uniformly hostile and bitchy to EVERYONE.
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game of thrones, hbo |
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