2010-09-05, 12:18 | Link #1161 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2010-09-05, 12:22 | Link #1162 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The only kind of death threat that can happen from falling from the stair is that you break your neck, but that's not something you can recover from. Plus it was hinted before that Genji thought that the baby was dead when he brought it to Nanjo, so it can be well assumed that the baby suffered some kind of bad injury. Everything fits here.
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2010-09-05, 12:23 | Link #1163 | |
fire of fires
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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Yasu's ambiguous gender is represented by Leon's, I should put it. Bernkastel even flat-out states Leon's appearance is a "placeholder." |
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2010-09-05, 12:25 | Link #1164 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 54
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Speaking of heredity and such, I wonder if Lyon has extra toes, too (not that this has to do with anything)...
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2010-09-05, 12:28 | Link #1165 | |||
Senior Member
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If Yasu is Beatrice and Ronove does really derive from Genji it is quite probable that she wouldn't imagine him as part of the ''witche's court'' until after she had solved the epitaph and received the trust of the servants. Maria is already talking about quite many 'furnitures' and I think even the bunnies (later Siestas). If I remember correctly she only received them after she got Sakutarou, which is either in 1984 or 1985. They are in the garden of Kuwadorian (of course this might have been part of an illusion), assuming that they really were there it would have to be 1985 already. When Battler hears about the servants refering to themselves as 家具 does he wonder about the term in the beginning?! My memory is a bit fuzzy concerning that part, but if he doesn't remember we can additionally assume that the concept was created sometime between 1980 and 1984/85 (when we first see flashbacks of Shannon and Kanon). EDIT: Quote:
And the baby did not fall and crash onto the rocks it was a maid that did that and probably softened the impact. You never heard of a mother jumping from a high building and shielding her child with her body? Sometimes it works. BUT another thing...if we were to assume that Gaap is at least partly Nanjo, then we could interprete the whole affair with a servant dropping the child altogether. Imagine that Natsuhi refused the baby, so the only chance there would have been was for it to go to Kuwadorian like his mother and Kumasawa, Genji and Nanjo probably didn't want that. So the three made up the whole story of the baby dropping from a cliff and dying not only towards Kinzo, but also in front of Natsuhi so that she wouldn't reveal it to Kinzo. Maybe there never was a maid that dropped from a cliff with the child, but just Dr. Nanjo who faked a report that said something like this happened. Quote:
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Last edited by chounokoe; 2010-09-05 at 12:39. |
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2010-09-05, 12:37 | Link #1166 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ryukishi made you think "furniture = can't love" when it was the reverse "can't love = furniture", which totally changes the dynamic of nearly every scene where Shannon and Kanon talk about the concept.
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2010-09-05, 12:38 | Link #1167 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 54
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Last edited by Ayu-ayu; 2010-09-05 at 12:39. Reason: fixing a misplaced multiquote |
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2010-09-05, 12:38 | Link #1168 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Second instance is when Battler tries and fails to touch Shannon's boobs. In both cases Battler doesn't show any particular reaction. It's interesting to note... Shannon and Kanon do not say "I am furniture" they say "We are furniture".
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2010-09-05, 12:45 | Link #1169 | ||
Senior Member
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2010-09-05, 12:54 | Link #1170 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 54
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2010-09-05, 12:56 | Link #1171 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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And judging by background, it was rose garden arbor, which creates a contradiction with ep4, because of Sakutaro in Kuwadorian. Spoiler for backgrounds:
Backgrounds to the left are named garden_r1<letters>.bmp and it's the arbor, because George proposed there and the corpses were found there in ep3. To the right is Kuwadorian and they are named garden_se<1-2><letters>.bmp Could you please post a quote? It seems that I missed that and can't find anything like that in those scenes, where they discuss Lion. Last edited by cmos; 2010-09-05 at 13:21. |
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2010-09-05, 13:34 | Link #1172 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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2010-09-05, 13:44 | Link #1173 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Well, it's not a fatal logic error and you can explain it in several ways, making some assumptions, but still. |
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2010-09-05, 13:49 | Link #1174 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Okay that's odd...
Either the kuwadorian flashback has been embellished with a fake background, or Ryuukishi didn't told us the whole story in Ep7. I'm going for the first. It's doubtful that Beatrice brought Maria to the Kuwadorian, walking 2km back and forth just to play in a different environment is kinda pointless.
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2010-09-05, 14:21 | Link #1175 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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There's a lot of kludging to make the Baby From 19 Years Ago story fit.
Rosa's Beatrice-2 story never made sense to me, especially with some of the embellishments in ep7 when Will asks about it. So she just happens to go running into the woods and by pure luck locates Kuwadorian, and then after Beatrice dies she runs away and just happens to spot the chapel and get home? It's a wonder everyone hasn't been to Kuwadorian if it's that easy to get there and back. Will mixes the two "falling" stories told by Rosa and about Natsuhi's baby to insinuate some degree of similarity between incidents, which serves as the foundational basis to explain L[y/i/e]on and Yasu. I don't really see a lot of reason to do that, but he does. Even if we keep them separated, it's possible to still derive the Yasu story from it, but it becomes stranger and stranger. We have ep6, where Natsuhi has no idea what Beatrice is talking about. The only three explanations that can possibly derive from this is heavy denial, outright lying, or that there never was any such incident and thus, no baby. If she's in denial, it's strange her memory is never jogged. It's unlikely she's lying, because she seems to have no motive to. But if the baby didn't exist, or the fall incident didn't happen (i.e. the baby was in fact Jessica or something), then Yasu can't possibly be that child (though Yasu could still exist and merely think she is), and neither can L[y/i/e]on. So it would wind up denying his existence at least. Yasu speculates on being an Ushiromiya long before any such thing is "confirmed." It's not an incredible leap of faith really (why bring somebody there at such a young age and keep them around so long?). But it is very... narratively convenient. By the way, isn't it weird we have three stories about a person falling, and Battler and Asumu both have that complex about falling? What's up with that? Half the falling stories are looped back onto the Yasu thing which, so far as we've been shown, has nothing whatsoever to do with Battler or Asumu. Either this family gets involved in or causes an awful lot of falling accidents, or there is some kind of theme not being properly parsed here. EDIT: And of course, Ange survives her miraculous fall from the building. There's got to be something more to this falling motif. Quote:
Admittedly, that time someone proposed he was a homosexual and attracted to Kinzo in a way that could never be fulfilled was about the most sensible way to make it seem like it fit in light of the Shannon/Kanon dynamic proposed, but I see no proof anywhere of it.
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2010-09-05, 14:29 | Link #1176 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I don't understand how it can be so hard to find that house in a merely 2km wide island especially a Mansion that has a huge fence surrounding it and a port on its vicinity. Rosa stumbling on that fence sounds pretty reasonable to me. What doesn't sound reasonable at all is that Krauss or his men didn't.
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2010-09-05, 14:34 | Link #1177 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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So I think the better question is why Krauss is lying about not knowing Kuwadorian exists, because he almost certainly does.
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2010-09-05, 14:39 | Link #1178 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Krauss is the kind of man that likes to keep informations to himself (for example he believes that the gold must exists but he pretends to think it's just a legend).
He might have decided to keep the story of the Kuwadorian to himself, but I wonder why he didn't tell anything when Rosa said she's been there in the past. Well Krauss is sort of a dick, he's George's uncle after all.
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2010-09-05, 17:34 | Link #1180 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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