Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Calm your tits people! it's probably another amateur music video by Fukuda..

Compared to some other Gundam fans out there, they are pretty calm here.

But anyways, if it will be a music video, there shouldn't be much trouble with the schedule with Cross Ange. From translations of the tweet, it seems this project is bigger than just a simple music video. It's big enough that he's not celebrating New Years.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

Compared to some other Gundam fans out there, they are pretty calm here.

But anyways, if it will be a music video, there shouldn't be much trouble with the schedule with Cross Ange. From translations of the tweet, it seems this project is bigger than just a simple music video. It's big enough that he's not celebrating New Years.

Maybe it's a series of music videos

Srsly I don't think its a TV series. Sunrise isn't keen on doing sequel TV series after such a long time since they prefer to make new shows to attract younger audiences. A revival of the movie or an OVA is what I'd think.

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by brightman

Maybe it's a series of music videos

Srsly I don't think its a TV series. Sunrise isn't keen on doing sequel TV series after such a long time since they prefer to make new shows to attract younger audiences. A revival of the movie or an OVA is what I'd think.

We all want the movie to be released. But I am honestly hoping for a series just to see what Fukuda can do with a SEED series with Morosawa writing it. And no, Cross Ange does not count. For now, I don't think Sunrise is completely focusing 100% on gathering younger audiences as that job is currently in the hands of Build Fighters Try. As seen how SEED is still relevant to audiences in Japan, it might come of no surprise. Even if it is not a series, an OVA seems to be more likely. I don't really have hopes for the movie anymore after all this yeara of it being "delayed".

[Aquaman OS]

Sunrise seems to be dividing their attention between attracting kids with Build Fighters and keeping the older fanbase around with other stuff like Unicorn, Origin, G reco etc.

They attempted to do both with AGE and managed to drive away both crowds.

[monster]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

But I am honestly hoping for a series just to see what Fukuda can do with a SEED series with Morosawa writing it.

We've already seen two examples of that.

If you meant without, then I don't think that's likely to happen.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Sunrise seems to be dividing their attention between attracting kids with Build Fighters and keeping the older fanbase around with other stuff like Unicorn, Origin, G reco etc.

A younger audience doesn't necessarily mean kids. SEED and 00 were specifically targeted at the teen crowd. AGE and BF were not. Neither were Unicorn, Origin, G-Reco, etc. which were targeted towards First Gundam fans (mostly 30-40 year olds).

SEED fans, many of which were pre-teens and teens ten years ago, are now mostly working professionals now. So a prime-time 50 episode TV series isn't going to fly for that type of audience. Sunrise has indicated that a few times in the past.

If they are to make this a TV series, it'd most likely be a late-night anime like G-Reco... But I really don't see the point of that. Late-night broadcast actually cost money for studios and are intended to be marketing tools (ala infomercials) for anime. I really don't think the Gundam Seed franchise needs that.

And personally, I think the Fukuda/Morosawa combo do their best when given time to work, so I'd personally prefer that this be an OVA series or a movie so their main weakness, time management, doesn't get exposed.

[monster]

Would a sequel necessarily have to target the original fans to the exclusion of potential new fans?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

Would a sequel necessarily have to target the original fans to the exclusion of potential new fans?

Not necessarily. But we're talking about Gundam and Bandai/Sunrise don't want to make sequel TV series for Gundam. They've learned that lesson with UC. That's why they are continuously looking to make a new "First Gundam" every few years.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

Not necessarily. But we're talking about Gundam and Bandai/Sunrise don't want to make sequel TV series for Gundam. They've learned that lesson with UC. That's why they are continuously looking to make a new "First Gundam" every few years.

What's the lesson from UC? If it's about being able to recycle themes and technology, I guess I can see why starting over would make it easier and more acceptable.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

What's the lesson from UC? If it's about being able to recycle themes and technology, I guess I can see why starting over would make it easier and more acceptable.

It's more a combination of the need to bring fresh ideas, technology, and characters like you said, and the freedom from being restricted in terms of storytelling and so forth. Also the concern that having too much history to a series would turn newer audience off.

MSG / Zeta / ZZ / Victory each got less and less successful both in viewership and in model sales, and it wasn't until G & Wing came out that the franchise was revitalized. And Seed's success was definitely unmatched. So those are the lessons learned.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

It's more a combination of the need to bring fresh ideas, technology, and characters like you said, and the freedom from being restricted in terms of storytelling and so forth. Also the concern that having too much history to a series would turn newer audience off.

I can definitely understand that fear. Although I think it also depends on whether a show requires a new audience to refer to the history or if it is presented in a more stand alone manner.

MSG / Zeta / ZZ / Victory each got less and less successful both in viewership and in model sales, and it wasn't until G & Wing came out that the franchise was revitalized. And Seed's success was definitely unmatched. So those are the lessons learned.

On the other hand, the 90s Gundam series also had declining ratings, and the same with the 00s shows, although the model sales might be different. And SEED had very blatant similarities to MSG. So maybe new vs old isn't the main factor when it comes to success, especially to a younger audience who probably haven't seen the older shows.

Anyway, I wonder if that trend of declining ratings will continue in the 10s.

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by brightman

It's more a combination of the need to bring fresh ideas, technology, and characters like you said, and the freedom from being restricted in terms of storytelling and so forth. Also the concern that having too much history to a series would turn newer audience off.

MSG / Zeta / ZZ / Victory each got less and less successful both in viewership and in model sales, and it wasn't until G & Wing came out that the franchise was revitalized. And Seed's success was definitely unmatched. So those are the lessons learned.

Gundam pretty much started off being not successful to very successful, then it got less and less successful.

As I recall, G and Wing didn't really do that well in Japan. The only most successful thing G accomplished was their models.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

I can definitely understand that fear. Although I think it also depends on whether a show requires a new audience to refer to the history or if it is presented in a more stand alone manner. On the other hand, the 90s Gundam series also had declining ratings, and the same with the 00s shows, although the model sales might be different. And SEED had very blatant similarities to MSG. So maybe new vs old isn't the main factor when it comes to success, especially to a younger audience who probably haven't seen the older shows.

Anyway, I wonder if that trend of declining ratings will continue in the 10s.

Originally Posted by weirdguy

As I recall, G and Wing didn't really do that well in Japan. The only most successful thing G accomplished was their models.

G Gundam started off weak in terms of TV ratings but finished extremely strong in the ratings, with its last ten episodes all in the 6.0-7.0 range, which was pretty high for a Gundam TV show at the time. Wing's TV ratings were the strongest of the 90's Gundam shows and it was popular with the teens (especially females) and sold plenty of home video. Both contributed to a Gunpla renaissance in the mid-90's with continued YOY increase in Gunpla sales until 2003 when Seed aired.

You have to consider the circumstances... Gunpla sales had been in the free fall since the second half of ZZ. SD Gundam sales (which were cheaper and had lower margins) were carrying the Gundam line in the late 80's and early 90's because "real" Gunpla sales had fallen to historically low levels, but by 1992 its sales were also declining. Both F91 and Victory were created to be new "First Gundams" based on UC but both missed Bandai's targets. That's why they went with the AU's and specifically with G Gundam in the first place. And G and Wing DID revive Gundam (and Gunpla)'s fortunes, and Seed took the franchise to new popularity levels. That's why you haven't seen a single UC Gundam TV show since 1993, and that's why Bandai-Sunrise are unlikely to diverge from this formula of investing in new Gundam universes for their TV shows.

[Elder]

Originally Posted by brightman

Destiny's writing troubles were more disagreements within the writing staff itself than just Morosawa messing things up on her own.

How can that be? Morosawa wrote or co-wrote almost every episode of GSD.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Elder

How can that be? Morosawa wrote or co-wrote almost every episode of GSD.

"Co-wrote" as in taking others' scripts for the episodes that she didn't like and almost rewriting the whole thing on her own thereby delaying the delivery of the scripts? Sure.

There was a writing team, and there were disagreements within the writing team about the direction of the story. Morosawa was the main writer but still only one of many.

Not like it's the first time this sort of stuff happened in Gundam though... Gundam Wing had half the writing staff quit halfway through the show too (as per an interview published in Gundam Wing: Episode Zero...)

[Wild Goose]

I was a Gundam series written by Yasuko KObayoshi, because Kobayoshi off her game is still superior to Morosawa. (Although admittedly I doubt she'll be able to top Samurai Sentai Shinkenger and Kamen Rider OOO.)

[Elder]

Originally Posted by brightman

"Co-wrote" as in taking others' scripts for the episodes that she didn't like and almost rewriting the whole thing on her own thereby delaying the delivery of the scripts? Sure.

There was a writing team, and there were disagreements within the writing team about the direction of the story. Morosawa was the main writer but still only one of many.

She is listed as story composer for GSD. My understanding is that it's one of the prerogative of the job in having the final say in regards to story matters within the writing staff (outsider of the producer and directors).

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Elder

She is listed as story composer for GSD. My understanding is that it's one of the prerogative of the job in having the final say in regards to story matters within the writing staff (outsider of the producer and directors).

And your point is...? She has final say, yes. But when half your team wants you to go a different direction and they are writing scripts for half of your episodes... Then you have a problem. It's also a creative environment... I doubt its as hierarchical as you describe it either.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by brightman

Not like it's the first time this sort of stuff happened in Gundam though... Gundam Wing had half the writing staff quit halfway through the show too (as per an interview published in Gundam Wing: Episode Zero...)

Is that why Zechs became the final villain later in the show? Or is that already decided since the very beginning? Because I felt his transition after he met Relena then working with the White Fang a bit awkward.

[Elder]

Originally Posted by brightman

It's also a creative environment... I doubt its as hierarchical as you describe it either.

My understanding of these writing teams at least in japanese anime and toku are that there is indeed a deeply ingrained hierarchy determined by official positions with unofficial status only mattering really if you are a star writer (which is rare imo) and that people who speak out usually do so at their own risk and most usually voice their disagreement by leaving.