Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Moeka's death "condition" is applied if FB/SERN got their hands on the IBN5100.
Meanwhile, from what we know with Kurisu and Okabe, Mayuri's death "condition" is applied as long as SERN knows that the Gadget Lab has made a time machine, however primitive it may be.

These conditions are basically not connected at all, but can be met at the same time line.

[RadiantBeam]

So then, does this mean that in the first timeline where Moeka killed Mayuri, she didn't commit suicide because FB was still in contact with her? Because it seems like FB's ending the contact between them only occurred in the most recent timelines, after Moeka had already stolen the IBN5100.

I suppose in this timeline, then, Moeka becomes useless to FB much faster than she did in the timeline where she kills Mayuri.

[GDB]

Seems right, yeah.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Moeka's death "condition" is applied if FB/SERN got their hands on the IBN5100.
Meanwhile, from what we know with Kurisu and Okabe, Mayuri's death "condition" is applied as long as SERN knows that the Gadget Lab has made a time machine, however primitive it may be.

These conditions are basically not connected at all, but can be met at the same time line.

My point exactly. In getting the IBN 5100, Okabe can save Mayuri and simultaneously saves Moeka, but Mayuri's death can still happen if Okabe gets the IBN 5100 if by chance Okabe doesn't manage to erase himself from SERN's database. So no matter the timeline, Moeka's death isn't a condition for Mayuri's death, and of course neither is her life considering Mayuri died even tho Moeka died.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

So then, does this mean that in the first timeline where Moeka killed Mayuri, she didn't commit suicide because FB was still in contact with her? Because it seems like FB's ending the contact between them only occurred in the most recent timelines, after Moeka had already stolen the IBN5100.

I suppose in this timeline, then, Moeka becomes useless to FB much faster than she did in the timeline where she kills Mayuri.

Yes, in the timeline where Moeka kills Mayuri, Moeka didn't commit suicide because FB was still in contact with her. This was the timeline where Ruka breaks the IBN 5100 and is therefore never found by anyone. FB kept in touch with her as a result and gave her orders to capture Okabe and his team and eliminate anyone who is of no use to them (Mayuri).

Because Moeka gave them the IBN 5100, however, they had no need of her or Okabe's team because they had what they needed, and that's what would eventually lead to her death.

[RadiantBeam]

@GDB: Makes sense, since in the first timeline, if I remember right, Moeka never got her hands on the IBN5100.

[FlareKnight]

No problem with taking some rough measures to get the phone and information out of Moeka. Certainly aspects of her that can be pitied, but still someone who would kill simply from a message from someone she's never met. Such a dangerous kind of person that you can't really hold back against. Plus considering Okabe has seen her kill Mayuri several times personally I'm amazed he didn't simply beat her to death, after all have time leaping and undoing the D-Mail as ways to get past having to deal with the consequences of it.

At least now they might be able to get their hands back on the IBN. Could use that to figure out who FB is which might help save Mayuri, or they can simply have that computer to help beat SERN and bust the 1% barrier.

[calorie]

Aeaaghhh, the story is getting a bit ahead of me there. I was just too lazy throughout the series to contemplate all those timelines and the inner workings of D-mail. Who the hell is FB though? That alone keeps me hooked. Must admit I totally forgot about her until this episode.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

@GDB: Makes sense, since in the first timeline, if I remember right, Moeka never got her hands on the IBN5100.

As far as it goes, Moeka never get her hands on the IBN5100 except if only her D-mail is active and nothing else, because all other D-mails are hindering her directly in such process:

Okabe's D-mail for Suzuha: there wouldn't be any IBN given to Fayris' father
Fayris' D-mail: the IBN would have been sold
Ruka's D-mail: broken if Ruka is female

Basically, this is the only timeline where she manage to get the IBN, and ironically enough, achieving her very mission is spelling doom to her. Ignorance is bliss they say.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

It wasn't 4 days. He only jumped back 2 days, but because of his undoing of Ruka and Feyris' D-mails, they both pushed Mayuri's death back 1 day each. So 2+2=4 days left for him to save Mayuri.

Originally Posted by Gohan78

It's easy to assume that he time leaped twice. He did the same thing in Suzuha's arc to gain as much time as possible.

Oh yeah, of course he can do that. Silly me. Looks like I shoudn't be one to criticize Okarin

[Xaturas]

Good episode.
However as I see the build up of okabe trying to save mayuri, while interacting with kurisu (building a strong bond with her on his side).
The only conclusion that comes to my head after looking at the kurisu in ED, is that okabe will need to choose at the end for either mayuri/kurisu to die, otherwise we wouldn't have that first ep death scene.
Hope I'm wrong, but still SG is a great series.

[maplehurry]

Moeka's death "condition" is applied if FB/SERN got their hands on the IBN5100.
Meanwhile, from what we know with Kurisu and Okabe, Mayuri's death "condition" is applied as long as SERN knows that the Gadget Lab has made a time machine, however primitive it may be.

These conditions are basically not connected at all, but can be met at the same time line.

Even so, Okabe getting the IBN is part of the requirement to change the worldline. That's basically what Suzuha's mission all about.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Even so, Okabe getting the IBN is part of the requirement to change the worldline. That's basically what Suzuha's mission all about.

Yes, but this time around he's trying to get the IBN so he can erase SERN's information about him and his team.

[Raiga]

Oof, brutal episode. The whole second half was way intense, and bordering on disturbing, with Moeka's freakish obsession with FB. And the violence. That was pretty dark.

Still wondering why Moeka obeyed the first D-Mail but not the second... I mean the first one she sent wasn't routed through FB, right? Why is FB necessary for the second?

... as for my stance on Okabe's actions: ethical, no, justified, yes.

[Jean Claymore]

As long as I heard, Mayuri's death time has been changing right? (though can't seem to remember if it was delayed or expedited a day) but is that because the divergence's leading them to the other worldlines or does she have another cause of death not by SERN's acquaintance of there time machine but some kind of disease gotten from another worldline? Man, the whole thing's beating me everytime we get a new episode with this new informations I have to catch up with...

[Leo_Otaku]

Wow...okay putting aside feminist banter...If I saw the person who would end up killing a person I loved, and had seen it over and over, I would punch them too. Regardless if they hadn't yet done it, just seeing their ugly face would make me beat the shit out of them, female or not (I'm female so it isn't like it would be unfair o_o). It isn't at all an attack against "women" , it was the effect of the emotion evoked at that particular moment.

Really good episode I loved the tension with the D-mail bit, was quite exciting!

[yuzen003]

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

As long as I heard, Mayuri's death time has been changing right? (though can't seem to remember if it was delayed or expedited a day) but is that because the divergence's leading them to the other worldlines or does she have another cause of death not by SERN's acquaintance of there time machine but some kind of disease gotten from another worldline? Man, the whole thing's beating me everytime we get a new episode with this new informations I have to catch up with...

Thus far each d-mail Okabe cancels has pushed Mayuri's death back about a day. Undoing the d-mails is taking them to different worldlines, but since the divergence level is too low it is more like jumping between a subset of the same main worldline so details change slightly but everyone's destined moment of death is still roughly the same. Mayuri is seemingly just destined to die during this timeframe in this main worldline so while they can change the cause, date and time of death slightly she's still destined to die. Obtaining the IBN will presumably allow them to create a large enough divergence (above 1%) that they would be on a different main worldline where there is hope that she would be able to live.

It's also prossible there is no reason and it's just her fate that's why it's impossible to protect her, if Okabe protected her from SERN; ensured she did not have a strange disease; and was on guard against any other threat he could conceive of she would die in a freak accident (like Nae accidently pushing her into te path of a train).

[Sol Falling]

This show has turned out a lot more character-driven than I'd originally thought it'd be. Unfortunately enough, I could hardly care less about the characters. lol, I couldn't even work up the motivation to sit through the previous episode.

Let's make one thing clear. Okabe didn't slug Moeka in the face out of any so-called 'necessity'. As a matter of fact, he didn't impulsively try to grab her cell phone out of her hands for that reason either. That was sheer hatred, frustration, and the desire to hurt someone that'd taken something precious away from him at work there. Pure emotionality. And frankly, the way Moeka has so clearly been portrayed as a weak and emotionally fragile/broken individual, I am astonished that so many of you have called out for even worse to have been done to her.

Prior to Okabe making his move on her, Moeka was pretty much catatonic as far as her responsiveness to outside stimuli. If his goal really was just the phone itself, he could have easily put Moeka out via any number of improvisational methods.

Okabe is frankly, pretty stupid. Compared to Daru and Kurisu, his technical expertise is pretty much non-existent. He constantly overlooks numerous plot-obvious developments such as the fact that Moeka's D-mail was never about anything as mundane as whether or not to get a new cell-phone. The only characteristic which remotely distinguishes him is his generic sympathy and good intentions. Somehow Okabe is such a great guy for being blindly desperate to save Mayuri, but his assault upon the just as unfortunate Moeka can be easily forgiven or even admired because he apologizes after reducing her to a wretched sobbing mess.

The bleak, self-serving simplicity of the emotional developments in this series is a fairly significant turn-off for me. I gave this show a chance 'cause I heard it would have a good plot. Let's see it finally deliver that as we approach the concluding episodes.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

He constantly overlooks numerous plot-obvious developments such as the fact that Moeka's D-mail was never about anything as mundane as whether or not to get a new cell-phone.

Plot obvious because we're the viewers.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Somehow Okabe is such a great guy for being blindly desperate to save Mayuri, but his assault upon the just as unfortunate Moeka can be easily forgiven or even admired because he apologizes after reducing her to a wretched sobbing mess.

The fact that he was willing to apologize and feel guilt over doing that to someone he has every reason to hate I think is rather admirable.

Also I think he is a generally great, and very compassionate person. Don't know what you been getting from him this series that says otherwise.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Let's make one thing clear. Okabe didn't slug Moeka in the face out of any so-called 'necessity'. As a matter of fact, he didn't impulsively try to grab her cell phone out of her hands for that reason either. That was sheer hatred, frustration, and the desire to hurt someone that'd taken something precious away from him at work there. Pure emotionality. And frankly, the way Moeka has so clearly been portrayed as a weak and emotionally fragile/broken individual, I am astonished that so many of you have called out for even worse to have been done to her.his move on her, Moeka was pretty much catatonic as far as her responsiveness to outside stimuli. If his goal really was just the phone itself, he could have easily put Moeka out via any number of improvisational methods.

His hatred for Moeka definitely played a part in his actions, yes. However, I maintain the punch was necessary in that particular moment, and not a gratuitous act. If he had been driven only by sheer hatred and frustration, he wouldn't have stopped at a simple punch (that he did is impressive in itself, the person in front of him was the one he saw kill his best friend countless times, for christ's sake). Even though he lost his temper for a second, he didn't lose sight of his primary goal, which was the phone and quickly got the hell out of here once he got it.

He may have been able to put her out of commission more peacefully before attempting to steal her phone, but as you said, Moeka was almost in a catatonic state and he most likely didn't expect her to react so violently. And from his point of view, she obviously didn't deserve to be treated with extra thoughtfulness. As for whether he first attempted to steal her phone out of pure malice, we'll have to disagree on that one.

[maplehurry]

I agree that he's pretty good at stopping at a single punch but...

However, I maintain the punch was necessary in that particular moment, and not a gratuitous act.

There's a combination of reasons why moeka actully got punched in the face there. A crucial one being she IS moeka...as you said,

"And from his point of view, she obviously didn't deserve to be treated with extra thoughtfulness."