Mitou Shoukan: //Blood Sign [Light Novel]

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by dniv

Don't lie. He's never pretty good at it. He's plain incredible... nothing less... and usually more than that.

Ok, yeah. Taking seemingly cliched ideas and making them sound awesome is what Kamachi does best. Also, the guy just has a knack for narration that makes the hero sound like the coolest guy ever regardless of the situation (see, Touma).

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Ok, yeah. Taking seemingly cliched ideas and making them sound awesome is what Kamachi does best. Also, the guy just has a knack for narration that makes the hero sound like the coolest guy ever regardless of the situation (see, Touma).

I have read only 4 of Kamachi's works so far and:

The Circumstances Leading to Waltraute's Marriage - The MC is kind of funny but nothing great. It's really hard to judge based on only one book.

The Zashiki Warashi of Intellectual Village - It's truly hard to judge if Shinobu is great or not.

Heavy Object - Quenser is by far the best MC I've seen from Kamachi's works. He is cool, smart and a bit crazy.

Index - Touma couldn't be farther from being cool. He is simply lame and annoying. The only good things about his character is his right hand and that he never gives up.

I'm putting my hopes on the fact that Kamachi is going to write about a type of MC he never did before. That and fact that I liked the chacter design for the MC and the girls (aside from bikini girl).

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Ophis

Index - Touma couldn't be farther from being cool. He is simply lame and annoying. The only good things about his character is his right hand and that he never gives up.

Quite the opposite, Kamijou is a protagonist that show great strength of character under extraordinary circumstances and never lose sight of his morals or be swayed or misguided by the justifications of others, that's when we see so many other protagonists get bogged down by about what's "right or wrong" when the answer is obvious. At the same time he is flexible enough to admit mistakes and weakness, but again never compromising on his core values even if it clashes with his allies.

The interesting bit is that this is not a confidence due to his special power, as even in situations without it he was willing to put himself in harms way. If anything he has the humility to know that his power is not strong. It's easy to say "never give up" when you have a special power, but that true test of character comes when you have to persevere when your power is useless. That's when we see so many other protagonists get all moppy, while that's where his character shines.

[ACertainStark]

That Ophis post was hard to read when I got to Index.

Kamijou is the coolest person in fiction. >:

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Ophis

I have read only 4 of Kamachi's works so far and:

The Circumstances Leading to Waltraute's Marriage - The MC is kind of funny but nothing great. It's really hard to judge based on only one book.

The Zashiki Warashi of Intellectual Village - It's truly hard to judge if Shinobu is great or not.

Heavy Object - Quenser is by far the best MC I've seen from Kamachi's works. He is cool, smart and a bit crazy.

Index - Touma couldn't be farther from being cool. He is simply lame and annoying. The only good things about his character is his right hand and that he never gives up.

I'm putting my hopes on the fact that Kamachi is going to write about a type of MC he never did before. That and fact that I liked the chacter design for the MC and the girls (aside from bikini girl).

before i start throwing bomb, mind telling me what type of MC you consider cool and awesome ?

[LazyHunter]

I agree, to me one of Kamachi's best points is how he uses his protagonists. Touma, Quenser, Heivia, Shinobu, Jack, etc... All of his protagonists are distinctive and likable which is important for me since I don't like to read stories with protagonists I can't like or sympathize. Touma in particular was the one who got me to read the Index novels, which got me to read the rest of Kamachi's works so I'm rather fond of him.

Hopefully Kyousuke will be as good a protagonist as the others.

[laon]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Quite the opposite, Kamijou is a protagonist that show great strength of character under extraordinary circumstances and never lose sight of his morals or be swayed or misguided by the justifications of others, that's when we see so many other protagonists get bogged down by about what's "right or wrong" when the answer is obvious. At the same time he is flexible enough to admit mistakes and weakness, but again never compromising on his core values even if it clashes with his allies.

The interesting bit is that this is not a confidence due to his special power, as even in situations without it he was willing to put himself in harms way. If anything he has the humility to know that his power is not strong. It's easy to say "never give up" when you have a special power, but that true test of character comes when you have to persevere when your power is useless. That's when we see so many other protagonists get all moppy, while that's where his character shines.

That's a grand way to say that someone is quite stubborn toward his ideal.

Most of Touma's fight are heavily, and I mean heavily dependent on luck and plot armor. While that's neither good or bad (it's subjective), I'm not fond of that.

Heavy Object's fight also fall on this trope quite often but at least the dialogues got crazier each volume lol.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

before i start throwing bomb, mind telling me what type of MC you consider cool and awesome ?

From what his avatar, I'd guess his favorite MC is Issei then.
Touma is nice enough. I don't like him that much before the Civil War arc but since then he has grown on me. And his awesome way of giving a girl his phone numbers.

[Miraluka]

I wouldn't say never with Touma.... Chaos.


BTW, I liked Touma and find cool but now.... I found better, and now I'm kind of indifferent to Touma's "coolness".


Yeah, I'm liking Qwenser more than Touma, actually.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by laon

That's a grand way to say that someone is quite stubborn toward his ideal.

Most of Touma's fight are heavily, and I mean heavily dependent on luck and plot armor. While that's neither good or bad (it's subjective), I'm not fond of that.

Heavy Object's fight also fall on this trope quite often but at least the dialogues got crazier each volume lol.

stubborn is different, Touma and Quenser charm lies the fact that their ability is not awesome as others, luck. plot armor?? i think you have some problem here, their plot armor doesn't active much, do any of them of sudden power up?? no, they use their brain to figure out pattern and make use of it, do you call it plot armor?? might be to some extent but at least it still better than facing oneself and sudden power up. His fight are heavily depend on situations, not luck or plot armor.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I wouldn't say never with Touma.... Chaos.


BTW, I liked Touma and find cool but now.... I found better, and now I'm kind of indifferent to Touma's "coolness".


Yeah, I'm liking Qwenser more than Touma, actually.

I'd prefer Quenser and Heivia. It's the duo that makes the charm of HO. Without the other guy, both of them wouldn't be as cool as other protag.

[Fellen]

Kamachi's protagonists are great and different from most others, but he can make even minor characters with little screen-time amazing, great examples being Gunha and Thor. Overall the way Kamachi handles his characters including protagonists is amazing.

[Miraluka]

Duh, is obvious Heivia is Qwenser's other half, true pairing FTE!

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

before i start throwing bomb, mind telling me what type of MC you consider cool and awesome ?

Sora (NGNL), Izayoi (Mondaiji-tachi), Shiroe (Log Horizon), Quenser (Heavy Object). I like the brainy types, and Touma is not one of them.

It's not about Touma being weak that bothers me, it's the fact that in every freak fight he keeps screaming and screaming and screming all those annoying cheese lines of his. The fact that Touma never gives up or never loses sight of himself is indeed nice and cool but only this, in my opinion, does not make him awesome at all.

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

From what his avatar, I'd guess his favorite MC is Issei then.
Touma is nice enough. I don't like him that much before the Civil War arc but since then he has grown on me. And his awesome way of giving a girl his phone numbers.

Heck no!!!! Please, don't go assuming things on your own.

[laon]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

stubborn is different, Touma and Quenser charm lies the fact that their ability is not awesome as others, luck. plot armor?? i think you have some problem here, their plot armor doesn't active much, do any of them of sudden power up?? no, they use their brain to figure out pattern and make use of it, do you call it plot armor?? might be to some extent but at least it still better than facing oneself and sudden power up. His fight are heavily depend on situations, not luck or plot armor.

Sudden power up? Look up to definition of "Plot Armor". If, after reading that you still disagree then I have nothing more to say.

[Miraluka]

I can't help but agree with you Ophis, I don't like Touma being the boy toy of the series.

[Fellen]

Liking a protagonist like Touma requires a certain kind of mindset and tastes that not everyone posesses (that is true about characters in fiction in general, but it's especially true about MC's like Touma), some people find him annoying some love him. It's mostly useless to argue about it since characters like that from my experience are highly subjective.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Ophis

Sora (NGNL), Izayoi (Mondaiji-tachi), Shiroe (Log Horizon), Quenser (Heavy Object). I like the brainy types, and Touma is not one of them.

It's not about Touma being weak that bothers me, it's the fact that in every freak fight he keeps screaming and screaming and screming all those annoying cheese lines of his. The fact that Touma never gives up or never loses sight of himself is indeed nice and cool but only this, in my opinion, does not make him awesome at all.

leaving Quenser aside, Sora lives in a world where game has clear rule, and absolutely everything have to abide these rules, Touma fight is a fight where everything goes, from one on one to survival, toss Sora into the very 1st fight in Index, the guy will get himself killed instantly even if he have IM, not everyone in the world play fair, Izayoi is a completely different breed from Touma, he is pretty much invincible from the start, spewing cheese lines?? the guy is desperate, he do not have anything else aside from IM and his mind, he have to rely on his word to rouse himself up, Touma isn't capable of stopping a blade with his finger like Izayoi. Shiroe ... a little better but like i said, their very own situation is different, Shiroe situation, require adapt and flexibility to accept, it's not the same as Touma do or die situation.

Edit: @laon: i did say to some extent, and please give me example of main char who you consider don't rely too much on them.

[LazyHunter]

What seems to be advertisement of the series. The first scene is most probably the spirit medium girl asking for Kyousuke's help but we can also see the Chinese summoner from 'Illegal' faction talking to the 'Government' girl

[Miraluka]

If you toss Sora there, you would have the equivalent of the bloody war that happened on NGNL with Riku and Shuvi, several deaths and gods being killed .