[Manga] Naruto Chapter 551 Discussion

[Neji112]

I think it would be great if Itachi were to survive long enough to fight with Madara and lose. A win against Itachi would easily vault Madara to the level of villain/theat status he so sorely needs to be at. It would also balance out the power levels a bit (Since Itachi is basically untouchable right now). It would also help the plot if you could say Naruto was later able to beat Madara as an opponent that even Itachi couldn't defeat.

[lucasd]

He stabbed him then talked so he do it smart way. Kabuto lost control in that moment.

[Shining Celebi]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Hashirama and Tobirama can be explained by Orochimaru never canceling ET. We now know that ET can only be broken by making the user undo the jutsu. Even the user's death doesn't stop ET. So that is what they are stuck in the death god.

While Kabuto cannot control or summon Itachi, he is only "living" through Kabuto's Edo Tensei. Outside of Sasori and Sai's brother, all the other zombies are still "alive" and are only being stopped by being immobilized and sealed. In order to stop them permanently, Kabuto has to cancel the jutsu. Kabuto could cancel Itachi's ET. But he might not be able to target a specific zombie. If he cancels one ET, he probably cancels them all. Including the 6th coffin aka his trump card. So he has to put up with Itachi.

I think Edo Tensei is sort of two-jutsu in one.

The first part summons the soul from the Pure Land or whatever (and binds it to a new body.)

The second part completes the resurrection and secures the ET user's control over the body.

The summoning part should work like any other summon. You cannot be summoned (or de-summoned) if you're sealed away; thus Madara had to wait until Kushina was giving birth to get the kyuubi, rather than just summoning the kyuubi out of her at anytime to wreak havoc. Kabuto also says that souls sealed anywhere outside the Pure Land cannot be summoned, so it would be strange if they can be de-summoned once sealed, since it's the same process (spacetime jutsu.)

At the same time, without some type of control over the summon (like Sharingan/genjutus/tags), the user has no further influence over the summon. All other summoning jutsu in Naruto has similar rules to Edo Tensei: if the user dies, the summon is not canceled (Enma and Pa Frog both stayed after Sarutobi and Jiraiya died). Summon creatures can decide for themselves when to go. Presumably, then, it's the second part of the jutsu (the control) that allows the ET users to cancel the summon/force the summon to desummon.

So, it seems to me that until Itachi decides to be at peace, he really is "alive" again, since he is completely freed from Kabuto's control. Tsunade must have also believed that Edo Tensei could work this way, with a living person free from any kind of control or she wouldn't have even entertained the notion of Dan's resurrection. It would be very strange if Kabuto had such fine, detailed control over the zombies that he could order them what to do and who to fight, but couldn't cancel the summons individually.

EDIT: Reread the last chapter just now - Itachi straight up says "the Edo Tensei is cancelled." Logically, Kabuto cannot cancel an Edo Tensei that is already cancelled.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

EDIT: Reread the last chapter just now - Itachi straight up says "the Edo Tensei is cancelled." Logically, Kabuto cannot cancel an Edo Tensei that is already cancelled.

Well the translations have been a little funky of late. I think Itachi meant he has broken free of Kabuto's control. He is still dead. He is not made of flesh. He did not come back to life. He is still only existing because his soul was bound by Edo Tensei. He is still under ET's rule which give him immortality until he fades away or the jutsu is canceled. He just broke free from Kabuto. Something a number of fans thought was possible with Itachi and Nagato.

So if Kabuto cancels ET, than Itachi will also go bye-bye. It is very possible that Itachi could be the one that forces Kabuto to cancel it. As DeDe pointed out, the zombies don't want to live. And Itachi is now satisfied that Naruto will save Sasuke. So his role is over. Although him getting beat by Madara would be interesting, I prefer we start focusing on the living characters again. Yes, even his brother.

I don't know if Tsunade thought Orochimaru was going to use ET to bring back Dan. It's possible, but I can't see it. Tsunade would know ET zombies are not really alive. Even Tsunade wouldn't go that far. We've already seen other immortal techniques, so I assume she thought Orochimaru knew of them.

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by james0246

I'm unclear why Kishimoto decided to give Itachi's Susano'o yet another technique/potential tool. It would have been just as believable for Itachi to use Amaterasu, so why create a new technique at all?

Don't forget that susanoo has multiple stages/ levels, each with different abilities. We saw this with sasukes susanoo - first is the skeletal stage sasuke used the namely at the kage summit, second stage of sasukes susanoo is the one with the crossbow. The third and final susanoo stage we have witnessed is the one with the cloak and mask that looked like itachis final susanoo stage that uses the sword of totsuka. Sasuke reached this level against kakashi though he had it for only a second before sasuke went blind.
This chapter merely showed all 3 stages of itachis susanoo. It wasn't pulled out of his ass, it was there the whole time we just hadn't been given the chance to see it. This chapter just granted that opportunity.
I'm guessing Itachi is going to go after Madara now, or perhaps Kabuto. If he goes after kabuto he might be given the opportunity to use his sharingan on kabuto to end the edo tensei, which may make madara's ET pains disappear and maybe even himself, which may end up being a goal of his.
Or if he goes up against madara we all expect him to lose since madara is meant to lose to naruto and or sasuke. I would expect him to do some damage to Madara though, like seal away his Pain bodies so madara will have to choose some others. Also maybe take madara's rinnegan eye and destroying it or sending it to naruto by a conveniently nearby crow or maybe itachi has a summon though most likely a crow also. By removing the rinnegan the pain bodies will no longer be under madara's control, either free them from the ET bonds like itachi or putting the back under abuts control which would no doubt surprise him. Madara will then have to insert his other rinnegan he got off nagato. I also hope that itachi causes physical damage to madara like what konan did. After which madara might seal away itachi or defeating him in another way, bragging he can just get a new arm or something. Maybe going so far as to say that he has shodaime clone. Itachi will tell him that he knew or suspected ages ago. Because I think itachi knew and that's why he never openly opposed madara to begin with and the only reason why he booby trapped sasukes eye before he died was to show sasuke that madara has the means to replace body parts

[james0246]

Chapter 552 Discussion Thread has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.

[kitten320]

Oh come on! I'm getting fed up with Itachi already! Why is he so strong?!
I can't believe that Nagato got defeated in one chapter! Just what the hell? A guy who destroyed whole village got owned in one chapter?! NOT BUYING THAT!

The only thing that makes up for it a bit is the fact that Naruto, Killer Bee and Itachi had teamed up for a moment to break the teachnique. And also the fact that Nagato totally owned Naruto and Killer Bee.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Oh come on! I'm getting fed up with Itachi already! Why is he so strong?!
I can't believe that Nagato got defeated in one chapter! Just what the hell? A guy who destroyed whole village got owned in one chapter?! NOT BUYING THAT!

I suppose it really should've lasted longer if you think of it that way but really it would just been pure fighting and little in the way of emotional involvement for the characters, so i think it would've been a bit pointless.