Macross Delta - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

It's not like humans have a grand purpose either. They just capitalized on what they learned after meeting the Zentraedi and took this on their hands.

No, because the humans are survivors. It also makes them stronger than most purpose-driven species of the Macross world, because human potential is not limited by destiny.

Originally Posted by Thess

Delta isn't human-centric though, only one member of the main cast is human.

Macross had not been human-centric for a long time, though the main protagonist had always been human. After all, we need an audience surrogate.

Originally Posted by Thess

Still, I think that de-brainwash the protoculture races using var was the original purpose, but that's my pet theory and relies on Kawamori recalling a race he generally avoids mentioning.

He could mention them, but it'd be moot... last time we heard about them was in Macross 30, so he didn't forget, its just that reviving them in the show is kind of pointless. Basara made the Protodevlin more powerful than they were, just more peaceful, and they are apparently traveling the universe or currently vacationing in Protodevlin Hawaii...

- Tak

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

Hmm wouldn't say that. They felt heavy and burdened, including Mikumo. Mikumo tried to communicate and failed. While Freyja was able to snap that out and outright revived them.

I think he's talking about the scene in the cave. Mikumo sings Ikenai Borderline alone while the others were rescuing Freyja, Hayate and Mirage. During this scene, the Windermereans detect a large buildup of fold energy within the ruins.

The ruins only started affecting Mikumo later on, when they were all singing together outside. Don't know why though.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

No, because the humans are survivors. It also makes them stronger than most purpose-driven species of the Macross world, because human potential is not limited by destiny.

I agree with this. That's also something Windermerians should learn. Freyja definitely did. She took her fate into her own hands and fought for her dreams. She went against the flow because she refused to be cowed by convention. It's not exclusively a human trait, it's just a strong will to make your dreams come true and fight for what you believe.

I'm going to add here something I forgot early, how I loved her apple scene. They called her a traitor, but she felt betrayed by her leaders, and she's sure that the people who farmed those apples --some who she knew and loved-- would feel the same. I think it was a really touching moment because I never really thought how upsetting this could be for her and the rest of the peasants.

Originally Posted by Tak

Macross had not been human-centric for a long time, though the main protagonist had always been human. After all, we need an audience surrogate.

Most of the trio was human though. At best, there were half or hybrid zentraedi (Guld, Mylenne, Ranka and now Mirage), but the majority was human. Here in Delta, we have a pure alien as "love interest" for the first time (Freyja) who is also the songtress of turn (which is novel), plus Mirage isn't fully human either. Only Hayate is human. Well, that is, if we don't count Macross II, and Kawamori certainly doesn't.

Taking into account this is also a tv series in canon, it's very progressive!

Originally Posted by Tak

He could mention them, but it'd be moot... last time we heard about them was in Macross 30, so he didn't forget, its just that reviving them in the show is kind of pointless. Basara made the Protodevlin more powerful than they were, just more peaceful, and they are apparently traveling the universe or currently vacationing in Protodevlin Hawaii...

Yeah, I know. That's why I think it's more likely they were made to complement humanity for irony's sake. But let me dream to have the protodevlin namedropped outside a game.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think he's talking about the scene in the cave. Mikumo sings Ikenai Borderline alone while the others were rescuing Freyja, Hayate and Mirage. During this scene, the Windermereans detect a large buildup of fold energy within the ruins.

The ruins only started affecting Mikumo later on, when they were all singing together outside. Don't know why though.

That was Mikumo, she provokes the fold-energy with her singing always. The ruins began to react when they were outside and the idols got affected. Freyja senses them first, iirc. It was because of Heinz, I think. But Freyja finished the process with her drive.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

That was Mikumo, she provokes the fold-energy with her singing always. The ruins began to react when they were outside and the idols got affected.

No, the ruins were already reacting when she was singing Ikenai Borderline.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No, the ruins were already reacting when she was singing Ikenai Borderline.

Well, yes, but I don't think that was the ruins, it was simply Mikumo's song emitting the fold waves (she was within the ruins, wasn't she?). The ruins did react to Heinz and when the idols began to feel "heavy". That said, Mikumo certainly has a connection with the ruins or an interest. I love her but I also mistrust her a little. I hope she won't turn out to be the real big bad, though. I love her relationship with Freyja and I don't want to see it upset.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

Well, yes, but I don't think that was the ruins, it was simply Mikumo's song emitting the fold waves (she was within the ruins, wasn't she?).

They ruins were reacting to her. That's why they were glowing. That blue glowing is how the ruins' reaction was depicted during the whole episode.

[Tak]

The ruins probably required all of them to activate. Frejya was just the final piece to the puzzle.

- Tak

[Thess]

If that was true, they would have been singing together, rather than reacting to someone's individual singing (and the people in Windermere only heard Freyja's song). I think Mikumo tried to activate them, failed, and Heinz hijacked them until Freyja overrode him.

[Dash_Hunter]

So what, now the ruins are sentient? they are just ruins and react to fold waves, they don't choose people.

The ruins reacted to Mikumo first because she regularly produce fold waves with her singing, unlike Freyja who until now sometimes produced them and other times not. By the time of the battle Freyja was the most motivated and focused on saving that Vordorian Ace, which amplified her fold waves and finally activated the ruins completely.

I think the point of all of that was to show that Freyja has finally found her reason to sing, and that apparently for the first time she surpassed Mikumo in producing fold waves (hence Mikumo's comment about Freyja's awakening).

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

So what, now the ruins are sentient? they are just ruins and react to fold waves, they don't choose people.

The ruin on Rax had an AI that reacted to Basara's singing likely identifying him as Anima Spiritia. Ruins like with Ouroboros has Fold Quartz on them.

Also of note Sivil was drawn to the Protoculture ruins of Rax.

[MichiNekoChan]

Slightly OT: I know its been mentioned in this thread before that GG is taking liberties with translations (im not that great in japanese but even i can tell)

are the subs translated better with any of the other subbers? (id rather not rely on my shoddy japanese skills)

[AkitoW013]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

Slightly OT: I know its been mentioned in this thread before that GG is taking liberties with translations (im not that great in japanese but even i can tell)

are the subs translated better with any of the other subbers? (id rather not rely on my shoddy japanese skills)

I've only found gg for the subs, the others groups took gg subs for themselves.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

Slightly OT: I know its been mentioned in this thread before that GG is taking liberties with translations (im not that great in japanese but even i can tell)

are the subs translated better with any of the other subbers? (id rather not rely on my shoddy japanese skills)

I think the other groups use GG subs.

[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

Slightly OT: I know its been mentioned in this thread before that GG is taking liberties with translations (im not that great in japanese but even i can tell)

are the subs translated better with any of the other subbers? (id rather not rely on my shoddy japanese skills)

There's Doki-Chihiro who are doing Delta together, the problem is that they are doing it slowly, they recently released episode 5, on the other hand they use better source files (BS11 raws) for their releases and look much better compared to gg and I like their translation.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Well, shows leave different impressions on different people. While I'd say Delta is pretty darn awesome overall, there aren't that many parts that have left a really strong impression on me the way many parts of Frontier did (I'm not just talking about big scenes here -there are many little moments in Frontier that I love as well).

That being said, if I was to chose a scene from this episode as a particular stand out, it would actually be Walkure rescuing the main trio from the Aerial Knights.

Yeah, I agree on that. Delta is very, very good overall, but I dont see parts where it stands out.
Maybe is the happy-go-lucky tone, coupled with the pretty much by the books development that is preventing it yet.


What is detracting points to me is the overall easiness through things happen for Hayate and Freyja, everything is going accordingly with any real struggle. I mean, this episode had Frejya running away from her stage against the enemy and everything that followed that made me roll my eyes I'll be honest. I knew they would have gone there, as I said in the previous ep. thread, I also knew this is a mahou sensou show so, well, I should not complain! Still it gets in my way now and then


Well, as for Kuromukuro, it also doesn't help that I dont like plots in which "random" kids are put into war context out of nowhere sort of. I just hoped they kept it a bit more balanced with Mirage, but she has been non existent so far.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Windbag assumption about that being created last by the Protoculture makes them destined would turn out to be the exact opposite, i.e. that they were kind of an afterthought.

Though to be fair the Protoculture in some ways were really massive jerks, and the universe really isn't obligated to contort itself for all time into whatever shape they happened to think it should be in their final dying moments. It certainly doesn't justify hurting a lot of people to form the greater windbag star cluster where all the other races have to kow-tow to the Windemere nobility.

If there's anything worthy in the Windemere, it's in people like Freyja, who want to use their abilities to help people even at personal risk to themselves.

[tsunade666]

Hmmm I don't know if this was mentioned before because I don't read the whole thread but I wonder if freyja would die by the end of the series. Over used of rune. Rune rune rune and its empty, she's dead. She is just flashing far too much like a fireworks that would light the night die out after.

[Benigmatica]

Never knew that Messer Ihlefeld have Var Syndrome, but I wonder when did he get it and when will it come back again?

On the other hand, looks like Lord Roid Brehm not only interested in ruins but in Freyja Wion as well! Then again, I have a feeling that he'll be the biggest antagonist yet!

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Though to be fair the Protoculture in some ways were really massive jerks, and the universe really isn't obligated to contort itself for all time into whatever shape they happened to think it should be in their final dying moments. It certainly doesn't justify hurting a lot of people to form the greater windbag star cluster where all the other races have to kow-tow to the Windemere nobility.

If there's anything worthy in the Windemere, it's in people like Freyja, who want to use their abilities to help people even at personal risk to themselves.

I imagine it went something like this:

Protoculture Bob: Fishpeople here, catpeople here... can't ever have enough catgirls!... aaaand done!
Protoculture Jim: You forgot that planet! No, not more catpeople!
Protoculture Bob: But... but... catgirls! Oh, whatever. Let's see, how about physically hypercompetent people, but they only live 30 cycles! And if they get excited, they get a faceboner!
Protoculture Jim: You are such a pervert troll, Bob. -.-

[ReddyRedWolf]

Hayate pretty much hit the Aerial Knights where it hurts for them. They aren't noble as they think. These nobles and knights do not even think about the peasants who make up the majority of Windermere as pointed by Freya. They are making farmers complicit in their crimes. Once it comes out their apples were the source of Var whose pockets do they think would be affected?