Attack on Titan - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[vuluc88]

I bet she's in love with Eren from this moment

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I'm not going to agree or disagree with how you view his character morally but...

I do think you don't give his character enough credit. He's no ordinary hotheaded shonen protagonist. He's completely batshit insane. Most shonen leads blow a lot of hot steam and might be reckless, but Eren is completely different. He's willing to do immoral things for his perception of justice. He actually acts on what he says. He's pretty extreme in general, though at the same time it's hard to deny that he's wrong. If he didn't do what he did in the past, Mikasa would have been sold away and the bad guys would have ran. Was it ugly and terrible to watch? Yes, but he the fact remains that he saved Mikasa's life.

Does this make him admirable? I don't think this is a black and white issue. On one hand he is absolutely reckless, but on the other, it's his overwhelming determination to do what is necessary that inspires people around him. The problem is if he's not restrained, then well last episode showed us what happens.

It's all about the age though, isn't it?
If a grown man went to these murderers who were about to sell a little girl into slavery, and killed all of the criminals to save the girl, a lot of us would have simply paraded him. They're not living in the modern world, I'm pretty sure basic human rights have no place in this setting, and vigilantism is less of a stigma.

The fact that Eren was a nine year old boy was really the reason why it's portrayed disturbingly.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Completely irrelevant to the anime. Learn to separate the two. In the context of the show, Eren's largely to blame. Deal with it.
.

Anime canon more than manga/LN?

Sarcasm mode on

I see, so Naruto filler story is canon more than manga canon story?
No wonder they didn't remake Full Metal Alchemist since manga end totally different than anime ending so anime ending is canon = so no need for brotherhood
when I start to think about it what happened to "canon" bleach 3 dolls from vampire ark?

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by aohige

It's all about the age though, isn't it?
If a grown man went to these murderers who were about to sell a little girl into slavery, and killed all of the criminals to save the girl, a lot of us would have simply paraded him. They're not living in the modern world, I'm pretty sure basic human rights have no place in this setting, and vigilantism is less of a stigma.

The fact that Eren was a nine year old boy was really the reason why it's portrayed disturbingly.

I have to agree with this...
As usual, Aohige dropping some words of wisdom.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Anime canon more than manga/LN?

Sarcasm mode on

I see, so Naruto filler story is canon more than manga canon story?
No wonder they didn't remake Full Metal Alchemist since manga end totally different than anime ending so anime ending is canon = so no need for brotherhood
when I start to think about it what happened to "canon" bleach 3 dolls from vampire ark?

I would advise you to not even start, that discussion is going to lead nowhere other than just aggravating both parties involved. Trust me, I've been there...agree to disagree on the topic, best course of action

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I have to agree with this...
As usual, Aohige dropping some words of wisdom.


I would advise you to not even start, that discussion is going to lead nowhere other than just aggravating both parties involved. Trust me, I've been there...agree to disagree on the topic, best course of action

hmmm sure

Originally Posted by zRichard

In the manga, there's a translation note that explain Eren's weird way to say his catchphrase "I'll kill every one of them!". It reinforces the idea that he's driven by pure hatred.

____

God, it took me an hour to find it.



He said this phrase many, many times in the anime.

I guess it's normal to hate them?
since they killed/eat everyone even though they don't need to?

[Newhope]

This episode showcases why I really don't like Eren, while he did save Mikasa his actions are frankly abnormal for a child his age.

[n120cky]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Come on, Mikasa isn't a Gasai Yuno who doesn't give a damn about anything but the guy she loves the most. If she was your typical Yandere she wouldn't have cared about all those people that were going to become titan food because of that greedy merchant.

Mikasa naturally loves Eren the most, but she also cares about Armin as a friend. Even if it wasn't in the manga, we have seen that she even punched Eren in the face when he acted out against Armin.

Hmm I don't what love you talking about, but I think the love she has is family love not romantic love, from what I saw Mikasa never worry about Armin, everything she does, she does it for Eren benefit. Well what I mean is Eren always top priority in her list above anything. This episode shows that she looking for Eren not Armin . . .

[Jun pls]

Originally Posted by n120cky

Hmm I don't what love you talking about, but I think the love she has is family love not romantic love, from what I saw Mikasa never worry about Armin, everything she does, she does it for Eren benefit. Well what I mean is Eren always top priority in her list above anything. This episode shows that she looking for Eren not Armin . . .

You never saw Mikasa worrying about Armin?
Sorry, I'm not sure if you're a mangareader so I better don't say anything further about this but Mikasa does worry about Armin as well since he's her friend, not only Eren's friend.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Completely irrelevant to the anime. Learn to separate the two. In the context of the show, Eren's largely to blame. Deal with it.

There is no real need to seperate the two when both are actually telling the same story to some extent. Ignoring the original source material is detrimental in term of learning what exactly was going during a given scene.
You are not oblidged to check the original source whatsoever, and you don't exactly lose that much from not doing so. But corrections and/or additional information that are not spoiler never hurt especially when it comes to character motivations etc. Denying it and claiming it has no relevency is hardly pertinent when the anime is actually an adaption instead of a different interpretation like FMA first season.

In such case, feel free to ignore the additional info, but it would be best not to claim things like "it is irrelevant!" as if it is a general fact.

I'm not sure if Mikasa can be said to be emotionally dependent on Eren. The only thing that seems clear is that she's completely devoted to the person to whom she owes her life. It's more akin to an act of eternal gratitude. In contrast, I don't see evidence of her treating Eren as an emotional crutch.

Mikasa always considered Eren as her family ever since the start of the anime. There is absolutely no evidence that she feels she needs to repay a debt or anything. More than anything, she doesn't became the "one who protects the other character" out of concern for what Eren did, but exactly because for what Eren is. This is even more evident when you consider her train of thought that she can do anything, or the fact she follows Eren instead of forcing him to take the "safest" position.

Originally Posted by n120cky

Hmm I don't what love you talking about, but I think the love she has is family love not romantic love, from what I saw Mikasa never worry about Armin, everything she does, she does it for Eren benefit. Well what I mean is Eren always top priority in her list above anything. This episode shows that she looking for Eren not Armin . . .

There was never a moment where Armin was there while Mikasa ignores him. She may tags along with Eren all the time, but she is not having a tunnel vision, and it is quite obvious when you consider all of their childhood flashbacks pieced together.
Whereas Mikasa puts the outmost priority on Eren (as shown in Episode 5), she naturally cares for other people as well. Otherwise, not only she would ignore her superior's order to stick with the rear guard, but she would not even consider the other solders as her peers/comrades.
On the other hand, Armin would also not consider Mikasa as his friend either. Just "Eren's sister". Yet, they are considered as a group of 3 friends.


Back to Eren's discussion, I frankly see little to no problem in the context given:
-As Aohige said, the society humans are living in this series is obviously not the same as ours. They are living in an already hostile environment to begin with and ruffians are roaming around, explaining why a Military Police Brigade is in place.
-Eren is 9-10 years old only at that time, but he already realized that much the severe situation Mikasa was in. Whether his point of view regarding the ruffians is extreme or not should hardly be accounted considering that there was indeed no time to waste. Sure, he could "potentially" deal the situation in a smarter fashion. But what can a kid do, aside of brash things? Should he wait for the brigade, the ruffians would be at large already. To begin with, it is indeed a miracle he could take down 2 adults like that, but still doesn't mean he could fare better without killing them.
What Eren did was surely brutal, but by no means far fetched or "stupid": emotionally driven characters can be a liability in various situations, and sure the result might not justify everything done so far. But considering the context (Eren's age, resources, the incident, timeframe etc), there is hardly a better plan.

[zRichard]

When talking about morality and violence, Eren reminded me of Light, from Death Note.

Note: But only on that aspect.

[Kanon]

I'm not sure which word I'd use to describe Eren, but he was definitely no ordinary kid. Not many nine year olds are able to kill a man up-close in cold blood. That was really disturbing. He's had an abnormally strong sense of justice since his childhood. One that enables him to do anything.

The final line of the episode hurt. "Eren. As long as you're here, I can do anything!"

Her reaction to Eren's death is something to look forward to.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by zRichard

When talking about morality and violence, Eren reminded me of Light, from Death Note.

Note: But only on that aspect.

I frankly think that Eren train of thought is not far fetched from usual people who believes in capital punishment.
What is actually worth noting is that Eren was dead mad by the ruffians despite they killed people he doesn't know at all. Adding the various comments he state regarding humanity in general and his earnest wish to save Mikasa, you can conclude he does value life to a high extent, which surely explains his outrage towards murderers.

[n120cky]

Originally Posted by Jun pls

You never saw Mikasa worrying about Armin?
Sorry, I'm not sure if you're a mangareader so I better don't say anything further about this but Mikasa does worry about Armin as well since he's her friend, not only Eren's friend.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

There was never a moment where Armin was there while Mikasa ignores him. She may tags along with Eren all the time, but she is not having a tunnel vision, and it is quite obvious when you consider all of their childhood flashbacks pieced together.
Whereas Mikasa puts the outmost priority on Eren (as shown in Episode 5), she naturally cares for other people as well. Otherwise, not only she would ignore her superior's order to stick with the rear guard, but she would not even consider the other solders as her peers/comrades.
On the other hand, Armin would also not consider Mikasa as his friend either. Just "Eren's sister". Yet, they are considered as a group of 3 friends.

Well what I mean is Mikasa eventually will care for other when she believe that Eren is will be safe / at least his situation is known.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Back to Eren's discussion, I frankly see little to no problem in the context given:
-As Aohige said, the society humans are living in this series is obviously not the same as ours. They are living in an already hostile environment to begin with and ruffians are roaming around, explaining why a Military Police Brigade is in place.

Even in our modern, oh so clean world, the court of public opinion would still be squarely on his side. Because seriously, murderers, slavers, providers for the child sex rings trade? Is there any fate so terrible we'd feel they don't deserve it?

Though he might get inflicted with years of therapy.

-Eren is 9-10 years old only at that time, but he already realized that much the severe situation Mikasa was in. Whether his point of view regarding the ruffians is extreme or not should hardly be accounted considering that there was indeed no time to waste. Sure, he could "potentially" deal the situation in a smarter fashion. But what can a kid do, aside of brash things? Should he wait for the brigade, the ruffians would be at large already. To begin with, it is indeed a miracle he could take down 2 adults like that, but still doesn't mean he could fare better without killing them.
What Eren did was surely brutal, but by no means far fetched or "stupid": emotionally driven characters can be a liability in various situations, and sure the result might not justify everything done so far. But considering the context (Eren's age, resources, the incident, timeframe etc), there is hardly a better plan.

He could have tried shadowing them, while leaving clues for the police to catch up. But that has its own risks.

Eh, whatever. He did fine, right up until the point he dropped his guard.

[richardtengcy]

[Haak]

To be honest, I think Eren is abnormal in the way in which he killed those thugs. It's not necessarily the decision itself to kill them that's unusual (which was clearly impulsive and understandable due to his high sense of justice) but the fact that the way in which he killed those two people was not actually impulsive at all. There was no hesitation whatsoever and the attack was actually planned out, from the scared little boy act to the preprepared makeshift spear. I don't think it's normal for a child to show that much thought behind a murder. You'd have thought his attack would've been a lot more impulsive and more "winging it" considering he's just a kid but there was something very eerily clinical about the way in which he stuck to his plan.

Contrast that to Mikasa who ironically had a more normal reaction. She was hesitating and it took a lot to finally push her into the act. Which is what I'd consider to be more normal considering she's just a kid and is obviously going to be scared in such unfamiliar territory. But to Eren it almost seemed as if he's been there before.

[ahelo]

The whole thing with Mikasa's brain getting over-charged was a bit too much but overall this was a very solid episode and Mikasa's past was really well told.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Haak

To be honest, I think Eren is abnormal in the way in which he killed those thugs. It's not necessarily the decision itself to kill them that's unusual (which was clearly impulsive and understandable due to his high sense of justice) but the fact that the way in which he killed those two people was not actually impulsive at all. There was no hesitation whatsoever and the attack was actually planned out, from the scared little boy act to the preprepared makeshift spear. I don't think it's normal for a child to show that much thought behind a murder. You'd have thought his attack would've been a lot more impulsive and more "winging it" considering he's just a kid but there was something very eerily clinical about the way in which he stuck to his plan.

Contrast that to Mikasa who ironically had a more normal reaction. She was hesitating and it took a lot to finally push her into the act. Which is what I'd consider to be more normal considering she's just a kid and is obviously going to be scared in such unfamiliar territory. But to Eren it almost seemed as if he's been there before.

One can argue that Eren heard the slave-traders’ conversation regarding Mikasa’s mother and their plan to sell Mikasa to the city’s loli-pedo bastards. That just pull the “rage” trigger in his head and made him planned to kill them. But I agree that Eren really looks experienced in killing in this episode .

[Claym0re]

Generally I hate flashbacks but this one was pretty good. Now it makes sense to me that they killed the "main" character so suddenly. Especially after a flashback oriented episode like this. We saw how Eren had an important role both in Armin's and Mikasa's life.

Actually we see this quite often in anime. An important character dies so the main hero/heroine can find his/her inner strength. Most of us believed Eren was the main character but we were wrong.

Guess this one was the setup episode for Mikasa and Armin. I expect a new opening for episode 7 where we won''t see Eren anymore and will focus on our new protagonists.

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

That aside

Spoiler for Manga Comparison:

I do feel they have made Mikasa far too emotive in the anime, it really makes her feel like a completely different character. In the manga we had an emotionally damaged individual who was unnaturally skilled at basically everything. In the anime she feels far more well-balanced, almost completely removing the more disturbing (and interesting) aspects of her character. Particularly how emotionally dead she is, and her very prominent obsession with Eren. I think the removal of her "dead-eyes" really messes with the perception of her character.

This makes her feel less interesting in my opinion. In the anime she is just straight out a badass character, with none of the negative elements portrayed in the manga. Unlike Eren, who retained both the positive and negative aspects of his character.

Spoiler for comment:

yeah, I think that exploring the damaged side of her character would do a lot to make her more unique. It would make her superhuman ability more believable IMO