Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Looks like Slaine has become rather Stalin-like. "Everyone will live in one nationality in peace, and I call all the shots, naturally."

Slaine has fallen to the delusion that a Utopia is achievable, and mankind can live in perpetual peace. We cannot (surely we never have). Even if he were to bring every living human into a single people, although it may be peaceful for a few decades, eventually someone would want power for themselves, or factions would rise, internal disputes, something. We can be a fractious and ambitious race.

Yeah, Slaine has rather forgotten that civil wars can happen as well as wars between countries.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, Slayne is going down, that is easy for everybody to see. His three big allies all went down together, so I don't even know if he has any further knights who follow his orders.

The question is if they will also kill off Inaho by overusing his eye.

Hm, since Asseylum and Lemrina are working together now, couldn't they just agree to remove Aldnoah activation rights from Slayne? That would screw him over immediately.

Well, the three wouldn't be the first counts to go down in face of the UFE, so I don't think the would be that surprised by it.

As for then removing activation rights, as far as we've seen from how Aldnoah works, Aldnoah doesn't work like that. If they were able to just speak to the sky and declare a person's Aldnoah rights revoked, Asseylum could have done that with any knight that came against her from the safety of the ship. She wouldn't have needed to go inside Saazbaum's castle to stop his Aldnoah drive, she could have revoked his rights the moment she found out it was him in the cockpit.

The royals don't revoke peoples rights, they can simply turn off a drive that another person has turned on. Lemrina and Asseylum could turn off all the drives in the base and castle, but that would doom everyone who works and lives on them.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm just repeating what Inaho said and implied in that whatever Asseylum says, it wouldn't make much difference anymore.

Maybe no one would listen to Asseylum if she talked about peace but I'm sure as hell those counts wouldn't even follow Slaine if the princesses stopped supporting him. They'd prolly be giddy at the idea of avenging that queer count that Slaine killed.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I've always been of the opinion that you shouldn't take out a gun unless you are planning to use it. But that's me.

That's fine, but bluffing is a part of life, and Slaine successfully called hers. Although maybe the fact that Slaine had soldiers along with him made her rethink the wisdom of using the gun.

I never agreed with your idea that Asseylum's trip was really that sensible or would accomplish anything, but I am glad that Slaine is the first to challenge her on it. I think that it's because he doesn't consider himself part of either side anymore, and so unlike the other counts and Martians, he's not under her authority. So basically, he says what everyone else wants to say.

It's fine to take that stance if they actually showed that it didn't accomplish something first. Here, Slaine is challenging Asseylum on it when it's the person whom he sympathized with that prevented her from accomplishing anything.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Looks like Slaine has become rather Stalin-like. "Everyone will live in one nationality in peace, and I call all the shots, naturally."

Slaine has fallen to the delusion that a Utopia is achievable, and mankind can live in perpetual peace. We cannot (surely we never have). Even if he were to bring every living human into a single people, although it may be peaceful for a few decades, eventually someone would want power for themselves, or factions would rise, internal disputes, something. We can be a fractious and ambitious race.

I know a perfect character who tried to do so, and had the same dream.
His name is Charles zi Britannia, he believes in a world of equality, episode 21, watch world that Charles zi Britannia, want to create.

[leelee85]

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

I know a perfect character who tried to do so, and had the same dream.
His name is Charles zi Britannia, he believes in a world of equality, episode 21, watch world that Charles zi Britannia, want to create.

Well Charles zi is an Asshole while Slaine just turned into a delusional emo Monster.

[novalysis]

For all we know, Charles Zi Britannia also started our as emo, was broken into becoming a Monster, and then indulged in delusions in his madness, and finally evolved into an Asshole in his old age.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by leelee85

Well Charles zi is an Asshole while Slaine just turned into a delusional emo Monster.

No friend does not cite what they did, the more the world that they want to create.
peace without indifference. A utopia.
You can change the sistem thousand times through the force, most never changed the mindset of people.
The king of Britania wanted to impose his perfect world in people without consultalas, just as Slaine made.
The dream of Lelouch, a world of peace.
The dream of Charles Di Britannia, a world of equality, where all people can live also.
Lelouch refused the world of equality where all live happily, in the same way that Charles Di Britannia proposed to him.
Lelouch criu a world of peace provissorio, concentrating all hate him because Lelouch knows that indifference will occur, whether in war or peace

[FrejaOne]

Asseylum might be a good person, but she is a terrible politician. Stop all hostilities and then what? Die immediately at the hands of enraged Orbital Knights in a political uprising after which the war is renewed. Nice plan.

Slaine basically made peace with the idea that Asseylum will never accept Slaine 2.0. Which is true--notice how she never tries to reach some kind of compromise, it's "you changed, I don't like it, do what I say or else". He's now holding onto the idea of creating this future world which will be worth all the sacrifice though it seems more like self-deception than an actual plan.

So in his mind he's still doing it for her because she doesn't know what's good for her but once she sees it she will change her mind... Not exactly deranged, just good old denial is not a river in Egypt.

Lemrina is boring. I thought she'd do something unexpected.

[monster]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

Asseylum might be a good person, but she is a terrible politician. Stop all hostilities and then what? Die immediately at the hands of enraged Orbital Knights in a political uprising after which the war is renewed. Nice plan.

You know, I wish she was able to do that just to see if the counts would actually rebel. Otherwise, it's just baseless assumptions.

Slaine basically made peace with the idea that Asseylum will never accept Slaine 2.0. Which is true--notice how she never tries to reach some kind of compromise, it's "you changed, I don't like it, do what I say or else". He's now holding onto the idea of creating this future world which will be worth all the sacrifice though it seems more like self-deception than an actual plan.

So in his mind he's still doing it for her because she doesn't know what's good for her but once she sees it she will change her mind... Not exactly deranged, just good old denial is not a river in Egypt.

Lemrina is boring. I thought she'd do something unexpected.

Considering no one ever bothered to share their ideas with Asseylum, it's understandable why she, as a member of the royal family, would not start out in a mood to compromise. All she's hearing are people acting treasonously behind her back.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

Slaine basically made peace with the idea that Asseylum will never accept Slaine 2.0. Which is true--notice how she never tries to reach some kind of compromise, it's "you changed, I don't like it, do what I say or else".

I'm not sure there is a compromise that can or should be reached between the 'conquer or exterminate our enemies to ensure there can be no war' viewpoint and the 'maybe just stop killing people' viewpoint.

Besides, she's the princess royal and her grandfather's representative in Earthspace. Slaine is her subject.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

Asseylum might be a good person, but she is a terrible politician. Stop all hostilities and then what? Die immediately at the hands of enraged Orbital Knights in a political uprising after which the war is renewed. Nice plan.

Slaine basically made peace with the idea that Asseylum will never accept Slaine 2.0. Which is true--notice how she never tries to reach some kind of compromise, it's "you changed, I don't like it, do what I say or else". He's now holding onto the idea of creating this future world which will be worth all the sacrifice though it seems more like self-deception than an actual plan.

So in his mind he's still doing it for her because she doesn't know what's good for her but once she sees it she will change her mind... Not exactly deranged, just good old denial is not a river in Egypt.

Lemrina is boring. I thought she'd do something unexpected.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying.

I really wish that Asseylum hadn't spent practically the entire season out of the picture. The fact that she's waking up now and deciding to do something really feels like poor writing. I honestly, almost wish she had just died in episode 12. She really feels like more of a plot device than a character at this point. She's got three episodes to contribute to the story, and honestly, I'm not really expecting too much.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

We can not forget that world peace is different from world without inequality. Peace can be achieved even if momentary, more equal, longer occurred, the indifference are part of human beings, and always have been whether in war or in peace.
A world without indifference, is a utopia

[Oboro]

I belive that someone miss a big point in the whole story.
On a side note it's funny that Asseylum from love interest and "romance" for Slaine "she surely forgive Slaine" (cit.) Now because she go against Slaine is a naive and terrible person and politician.

the War terran vs Mars is an expedient for saaz "crusade" and now for the Slaine 2.0bizonbetaRc "crusade".

The war begun with the excuse for the fake asseylum assassination and continue in the second cour form the behaviour of the the fake Asseylum (Lemrina subjugate to Slaine will.)

the Mars problems are domestic policy and the terran or diplomacy with terran could help part of those problems specially about the lack of resources at mars.

Asseylum always ask for the ceasefire since the start, he actively fight against her kingdom, he try to broadcast that she was alive, and she never change her mind about it. For her, and for everyone who see actually the show, the terrans are victims of Vers politics, or better saaz stratagem to begun a war so there isn't reason for continue a war against terrans.

A ceasefire and the war end will not solve the vers problems but at least could help than continue an unfair genocide with the casualities of wars, started from a Fake expedient to fix a domestic Vers problem

Many ppl ignore that simple and starting point for the whole story, mostly Slaine fanboys, but really how you could ignore a so significant point, and act as inattetive or biased for the char you like is a mystery.

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I really wish that Asseylum hadn't spent practically the entire season out of the picture. The fact that she's waking up now and deciding to do something really feels like poor writing.

I think she's always been a plot device. It just looked like she was going to have her own story. She is a prize for Inaho (the hero gets the girl), the source of angst for Slaine (that's what being friendzoned after a life-saving kiss does to one's mind) and a symbol of purity/idealism/peacemaking message.

Originally Posted by monster

You know, I wish she was able to do that just to see if the counts would actually rebel. Otherwise, it's just baseless assumptions.

It's been said many times that Vers is desperate and the majority of the Orbital Knights are raring to go into battle. "We've been waiting for this for so long!" is even something one of them says many episodes ago. They actually overruled Asseylum's previous attempt at peace, if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by monster

Considering no one ever bothered to share their ideas with Asseylum, it's understandable why she, as a member of the royal family, would not start out in a mood to compromise. All she's hearing are people acting treasonously behind her back.

And yet she never stops to consider the reasons her so-called dear childhood friend might have. Never dwells on them. Never wonders what he really had in mind or asks what happened to him.

This isn't an accusation towards Asseylum, it just shows how shallow her relationship with Slaine actually was. There was no real trust, no real communication. Just a boy in love with his own fantasy who didn't see the real girl--and the girl who liked to listen to pretty stories about a faraway land.
Whereas Inaho did make an impression on her.

Originally Posted by DMurphy

I'm not sure there is a compromise that can or should be reached between the 'conquer or exterminate our enemies to ensure there can be no war' viewpoint and the 'maybe just stop killing people' viewpoint.

Besides, she's the princess royal and her grandfather's representative in Earthspace. Slaine is her subject.

Slaine didn't start out with that viewpoint which means something influenced him. So if he changed once under influence, he can change again.
And the princess doesn't have a working practical viewpoint, she has an ideology.

[monster]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

It's been said many times that Vers is desperate and the majority of the Orbital Knights are raring to go into battle. "We've been waiting for this for so long!" is even something one of them says many episodes ago. They actually overruled Asseylum's previous attempt at peace, if I remember correctly.

So desparate that they were willing to take 19 months to do basically a half-hearted attempt at actually conquering Earth. And I don't remember them overruling anything. Cruhteo is the perfect example of someone who couldn't care less about Earth's people, but still loyal to Asseylum.

And yet she never stops to consider the reasons her so-called dear childhood friend might have. Never dwells on them. Never wonders what he really had in mind or asks what happened to him.

There is nothing more to consider when he plainly explained his reasoning this episode.

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Oboro

I belive that someone miss a big point in the whole story.
On a side note it's funny that Asseylum from love interest and "romance" for Slaine "she surely forgive Slaine" (cit.) Now because she go against Slaine is a naive and terrible person and politician.

She's a terrible politician because she actually seems to believe that if you yell "let's all be friends" really loud, it's going to solve all the conflicts between people.

Slaine, to that matter, is also a bad politician because he is absorbed in his personal issues.

Inaho could be the best one of those three. He's a decent person so he won't be nasty or cruel, but he is detached enough to actually think things through from different viewpoints.

[monster]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

She's a terrible politician because she actually seems to believe that if you yell "let's all be friends" really loud, it's going to solve all the conflicts between people.

That's never implied in the show. All that she ever did was to speak to her own people to stop fighting so that they can actually communicate with Earth. Remember, Mars is still the aggressor here and the one with superior force. So they're the one who can afford to stop fighting first, at least long enough to negotiate with Earth.

[leelee85]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

She's a terrible politician because she actually seems to believe that if you yell "let's all be friends" really loud, it's going to solve all the conflicts between people.

Slaine, to that matter, is also a bad politician because he is absorbed in his personal issues.

Inaho could be the best one of those three. He's a decent person so he won't be nasty or cruel, but he is detached enough to actually think things through from different viewpoints.

So how, if ever, will Slaine will get over his personal issues?

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by monster

There is nothing more to consider when he plainly explained his reasoning this episode.

There is, if you care about him. Because he has changed a lot and he is clearly in a bad place right now mentally and emotionally. It's obvious he's been through something hardcore, something damaging.

But if you don't care about him personally, then you have to be ready to shoot once you pointed a gun at him, because Slaine, having risen through ranks the way he has, is obviously not going to be stopped by a mere threat.

Which brings us to the princess doing things in a half-hearted way. She doesn't behave like she actually cares about Slaine as a person, but she doesn't behave like she is truly determined to go through with her idea either.
That's why she's a plot device. She wasn't like that in the first episodes of cour 1.