Macross Delta - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Speaking of which, why couldn't Mirage have been the one to blow Bogue away in this episode?

Because it wouldn't make sense? Last time Mirage and Bogue fought, one of Bogue's drones easily defeated her. There needs to be an explanation of why she suddenly became better than him. She's never showed to measure against any of the White Knight's squad. Arad could have done it though.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Because it wouldn't make sense?

Well, we could say that Bogue is so focused on Reina that he's getting sloppy in combat.

Here's a question for you, Thess - If you were writing this show, what would you do with Mirage? At this point, I'd just like to see her at least become a badass jet-fighter/mecha pilot.

[Thess]

From plot POV, they could make her relevant when they move to research why Hayate's dad betrayed the NUNS and why the NUNS even brought a dimensional weapon there. She was an Ex NUNS pilot, after all. Also work on her relationships with the Delta squad? Just what happened to her leadership subplot? Was it dropped or what? Maybe give her a backstory when she was a NUNS pilot, a single flashback would do.

Only after that, make her more carefree flying to improve her style. She needs more fixing than just to make her an ace just because. She needs to build up her entire character and not simply resolve her arc.

[BetoJR]

On another note: does she even need to be an ace?

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

On another note: does she even need to be an ace?

My honest answer about this. No. Because this may be her goal at the end of the story.

[Triple_R]

Hayate and Freyja get to be good at their jobs, so shouldn't Mirage be good at her job? For that matter, Arad and Johnson and Walkure in general are good at their jobs as well. Part of Messer's popularity was due to how he was an ace pilot that was a good rival for Keith.

Improved competency in relevant areas is often the road to character recovery, in my view. If a character can't even get that right, then what hope is there for that character?

Don't kid yourself - A big part of Hayate and Freyja's popularity is that they're good at what they do. And a big part of Mirage's issue is that she simply hasn't had that standout moment of coolness or awesomeness.

Mirage doesn't need to be an ace pilot, but it would be good to see her become a good pilot that can at least look Ok in combat with the non-Keith members of the Aerial Knights.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

On another note: does she even need to be an ace?

No one need to be.
It's just that her being recognised as a good pilot is the EASY way to give her some closure. I say easy, because we are running out of time to give Mirage her own story arc. We are in the closing stages of the plot and it would be a massive waste of time to spend an episode on Mirage's family issues or something else equally irrelevant to the current war.

Mirage has no relevance to Windermere, no relevance to the NUNS leadership, and not a good enough pilot to have a pivotal role in the war's climax. Making her an Ace is just a shortcut to give her a role in the story that is left to tell. If she can't even take care of herself in the final climatic battle, then she would just be a burden.

[Matts]

Originally Posted by Thess

I'm certain some people said the same about Yunoha x Jin.

................ wffffffffffffffffffffhaUUUUUUUHHHHHT what show were you NO YOU KNOW WHAT.

I. Don't care anymore. Like, I've been here for a week and I give UP. Oh. my god. Hahahahahahahahaahahahaha. lol

Bai gaiz


(I've been here for a long time, years in fact. Frontier, Evol, f-in Logos. So. Like. WHAT. D. Fu-)

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I refuse to believe anyone would seriously want Reina to even look at Booger's general direction, let alone date him. My god.

*raises hand* Only because Reina would totally wear the pants in that relationship and have Bogue whipped in no time. Once he gets over his issue's Bogue probably has a cute dere side anyway. And as I ship Makina x Reina, I wouldn't mind a Bogue threesome with them either. Obviously, they're in charge. :P

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Matts

................ wffffffffffffffffffffhaUUUUUUUHHHHHT what show were you NO YOU KNOW WHAT.

Yeah, did you forget Jinn was an antisocial creeper who insulted everyone (specially the women) in the beginning before he infiltrated the school? Most people here used to hate him. They all turned around after he got his arc moving and changed (look Jin x Yunoha was the only thing I LIKED of Evol with the music). It's just ridiculous to judge something that hasn't even started (if it starts at all).

Originally Posted by BetoJR

On another note: does she even need to be an ace?

No, but she'll need to do something of note in the battlefield as pilot, like be able to counter Bogue at least. She is a pilot. Imagine if we say "Freyja doesn't need to sing well" when she's a singer.

I just don't know how they'll do anything with Mirage, if Mikumo's arc has begun and there's tension between Freyja-Hayate and also Keith-Heinz-Roid that was addressed this episode. I don't know if anyone bothered to read what Kawamori said about Delta, but iirc, he and the staff mentioned three focus/central keys of the story in several interviews: Mikumo's past, the relationship between Freyja and Hayate (nobody said has to be romantic, mind you), and the non romantic triangle between Keith, Heinz and Roid. Now I had assumed this that Mirage will have some romantic relevance and intense character development because she's obviously ignored as crucial story player, but that hasn't happened at all (it could be they have to balance her romance with Hayate without overshadowing the show central bond - Hayate and Freyja).

Who knows anymore. But if they do something with her, they must do it fast. Next episode is called eternal songs, which strikes me something about Mikumo more than any character.

[magnuskn]

If the only two character arcs Mirage had in the entire series are a.) she's not as good a pilot as the other members of Delta and b.) she falls in love with Hayate and she fails at both.... then the writers have really failed the character.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

If the only two character arcs Mirage had in the entire series are a.) she's not as good a pilot as the other members of Delta and b.) she falls in love with Hayate and she fails at both.... then the writers have really failed the character.

Now that I think about it.....Hayate spent more time with Freyja than he did with Mirage. The latter didn't have much oppurtunity to spend some time with Hayate.

[Mistyclear]

Rather than call this episode sense emergence... I would call it sensory overload considering what happened.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Now that I think about it.....Hayate spent more time with Freyja than he did with Mirage. The latter didn't have much oppurtunity to spend some time with Hayate.

I think I and others have already pointed this out countless times. Up to this point, character development of the triangle is woefully unequal.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

If the only two character arcs Mirage had in the entire series are a.) she's not as good a pilot as the other members of Delta and b.) she falls in love with Hayate and she fails at both.... then the writers have really failed the character.

It's not like they failed to handle other triangular relationships. Keith, Roid and Heinz 'triangle' (which is non-romantic) is going into a good direction and has a gradual development about how both mean influence or impact little Heinz. Arad, Kaname and Messer 'triangle' still exists even if Messer is dead and acts as a shadow for any progress between them which means he has a strong influence, IMO. Actually, makes me wish this was the main triangle and Messer lived, because their ups and downs seem far more realistically handled (like how Arad withheld information which obviously hurt Kaname). I think the problem is that:

1. Mirage has no real connection to the main plot (that we know) so it's difficult to find time to flesh her out. Specially when Mikumo, who is connected to the plot, has now began to develop. The best way to rescue her, was if she was still strongly linked to the NUNS which could offer some kind of information but this role was taken by Arad's dark past to develop him.
2. Freyja-Hayate relationship is one of the "keys" of the show, so they cannot really show a third party that takes the focus of something central because it might lessen the impact they meant to have (again, this doesn't mean it's going to be a romantic relationship). The best way to have had Mirage impact Hayate was for her to teach her to be serious and responsible which seemed to be but he didn't care about her lessons and only cared and started to get serious because of Messer.

That's why she's more sidelined now that she was in the beginning of the story where they laid off the plot. I don't think it's something malicious. Maybe they'll work with her next episode because Hayate is down, they can give her some lines at least, as long as Mikumo and Hayate are unconscious or missing to rescue her character from limbo.
...Still, they had been subtly developing Arad and Kaname, even if they aren't central- and Cassim, and Herman, even Bogue got some changes and development though some are played for laughs.

What Mirage needs the most are moments like those Freyja had with Cassim or even Messer. Something to establish her character and interacting with people completely removed from her piloting or romance angst, or she'll be hopelessly remain a two-dimensional character at best.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

No one need to be.
It's just that her being recognised as a good pilot is the EASY way to give her some closure. I say easy, because we are running out of time to give Mirage her own story arc. We are in the closing stages of the plot and it would be a massive waste of time to spend an episode on Mirage's family issues or something else equally irrelevant to the current war.

Mirage has no relevance to Windermere, no relevance to the NUNS leadership, and not a good enough pilot to have a pivotal role in the war's climax. Making her an Ace is just a shortcut to give her a role in the story that is left to tell. If she can't even take care of herself in the final climatic battle, then she would just be a burden.

This is precisely my thinking as well. If this was Episode 12, I'd hope for more than this for Mirage, but at this juncture, how much time can the show afford to devote to her? The show has major plots to take care of, and unfortunately, Mirage has minimal involvement in any of them aside from the main love triangle.

Making Mirage a good pilot would be something at least.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Tak

I think I and others have already pointed this out countless times. Up to this point, character development of the triangle is woefully unequal.

Images

Finally, something worse than this.

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Images

Finally, something worse than this.

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I guess we can at least agree Ranka had ample screen time. Not so for Mirage. It is obvious trolling.

- Tak

[Wolfpack]

I'm wondering if Mikumo's going to become an enemy or something. I've been getting that vibe lately because it seems like she's some kind of descendant of protoculture and NUNS experimented on her.

And while there's no basis for this thought, when I saw them this week, I thought "so Hayate has eight more episodes to break Freya's heart or vice versa." It's probably because I'm a Mirage fan that I'm seeing what's not there.

[Triple_R]

Even if Mikumo becomes the last boss in a sense, she'll probably get rescued by Freyja in some way. I doubt they'd let all that Freyja/Mikumo friendship buildup go to waste. If Mikumo goes down a dark path, Freyja will probably save her.