2009-06-11, 14:00 | Link #1221 |
At the end of this world
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 39
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I'm not geologist either, but I would have expected the whole place in '98 differently (the mountain-scene, the dock etc.) if there was a volcano eruption there 12 years ago. I mean bare grass, wasteland, burned down forest etc.
Obviously I've never ever seen a volcano in real (thank Godness) so don't expect me to definitely know what kind of remains such a disaster leaves, and how much time Mother Nature needs to shape it back to seemingly "normal". However let's also not forget that the police gave the stake Mammon to Ange, which means that Kyrie's corpse (the victim of the 6th twilight ep3) probably wasn't incinerated as the Stake should have been inside the body (I heavily doubt the stake form is insanely durable to endure the heat). I'd be pretty disappointed if that "theory" is going to be true. I know! We all should spread inconvenient, unpopular theories like that (as if we completely believe it), so eventually it's going to reach Ryukishi's ear, and he'll totally rebuke it in episode 5!
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2009-06-11, 14:09 | Link #1222 |
Senior Member
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About the harbor:
A harbor is nothing more than a very large dock, which requires constant maintenance to keep from falling apart. It's not hard to imagine that, after 12 years of typhoons, the dock would be obliterated. I can't remember if they mention Kuwadorian's dock as intact, but it could just be that that side is easier to climb. If the police wanted to seal the island, all they'd have to do is destroy the dock, to keep thrill seekers from coming to it. Volcano: One thing I can't make sense of... why would Ange blame Eva for a natural disaster? Falling back to my "the mansion explodes" theory, Ange could believe she rigged the boiler, and thus hated her. However, I can't imagine Ange thinking "Oh, wow, Eva Oba-san is like, the best witch ever, being able to summon Ifrit." >_>; A volcano is not something you can use as a way to cover up a crime scene, unless you throw things into it. You cannot time and eruption. Bloody body parts would not be found. The island would be uninhabitable for days from the ash, sulfur, and lava. The landscape would completely change, and the island would probably sink. Yet it remains exactly as it was, overrun with vegetation. The mansion's just a big hole in the ground now, so why would Ange want to go there? Plus, it's impossible to get from the hole to Kuwadorian, especially in only those few hours she had. It was a choice... spend an hour staring at a hole, or spend an hour searching the secret mansion. |
2009-06-11, 14:33 | Link #1223 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 36
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The thing about the volcano theory is that nobody would see it as a mystery, or believe in some kind of witch. The messages in a bottle were apparently written to plant the concept of Beatrice in everyone's minds, and yet, if there had been a volcano eruption, everything would be far too easy to explain without a witch.
People would just say "a volcano killed everyone and Eva happened to be somewhere else" and that would be the end of that. Nobody would blame Eva for the volcano, or Beato for any killings. The volcano would erase all evidence of any crimes as everyone's bodies would be melted in the lava. In other words, such an occurrence would be game over for Beato in every way. Now consider that a volcano explosion would apparently have been covered up in Ange's world. An action requires both a method and a motive. It's not easy to cover up a volcano explosion, and someone would have to want to cover it up. Why, when a volcano explosion could never be considered as anyone's fault? There are too many inconsistencies for it to be a believable theory. Maybe Battler could use it against Beato as blue-text ammo, but it's not really plausible. |
2009-06-11, 16:08 | Link #1227 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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After going through each episode I have made a chart on Twilights and frequencies.
Spoiler for Twilight 1:
Spoiler for Twilight 2:
Spoiler for Twilight 4:
Spoiler for Twilight 5:
Spoiler for Twilight 6:
Spoiler for Twilight 7:
Spoiler for Twilight 8:
Spoiler for Twilight 9:
Spoiler for Twilight 10:
Last edited by Marion; 2009-06-11 at 17:06. |
2009-06-11, 16:20 | Link #1228 | ||||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
And about that this is yet another reason to think it was impossible for Krauss to do a half assed job in exploring the island. How could he be stingy when he could gain 20 billion of yen? The Mansion has a big garden and that mean that from above you'd find it without any effort. If Krauss didn't pay for an aerial recognition then he's pretty stupid. Quote:
Quote:
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I'm talking about that anyway, I dunno how do you call it. @squirrellord You know what I don't like about your theory? Basically you are using the "Trap X" card to explain the last riddle. This is basically the same thing Battler always uses whenever he has no other way to explain a murder. In the tea party of episode4 Battler uses it like 10 times. So my point is... how many chances are there that Battler won't use this card again to explain the last riddle? 0% imho. It is impossible that he can't think about a trap. So I would see it as an incredible anticlimax if we find out that Battler lost a game that he could have won by using one of his favorite cards. That would be really lame.
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2009-06-11, 16:31 | Link #1229 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 36
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It's in the ending scroll in ep1 as well as TIPS, but it doesn't necessarily correspond to the same "facts".
The witch's record is anti-mystery, while the rest of the info in the ending scroll is believed to apply to anti-fantasy as well. In fact, the part where she's screaming over and over about how she never loved Maria was only in Maria's dream, so that part only has to do with what Maria believes. |
2009-06-11, 16:52 | Link #1231 |
Senior Member
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very nice stuff Marion, quite a lot to consider.
I want to bring up one thing though, the only thing we know for sure about Kinzo is that he's "Dead at the start of each game". I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but: 11:58pm October 3rd, Kinzo is alive 11:59pm October 3rd, Kinzo is killed 12:00am October 4th, Kinzo is dead at the start of the game. If we believe that Kinzo only died a short while before the game starts, that would explain Dr.Nanjo's presence. It could be, as to not cause commotion (lol) during the conference, the servants and Nanjo decided against informing everyone that Kinzo was dead, planning on doing it after the family has left. Or perhaps they don't know, that when Genji went there Kinzo was missing, and he had been instructed by Kinzo never to mind such situations, as he will be in Kuwadorian at that time. Nanjo could have been instructed to say he'd been playing chess with Kinzo, as to keep people from wondering where he went off to. @Jan-Poo True, that's quite possible. Though we then have to ask for a definition of a trap. I said before that it was Beatrice's "will" to kill Battler when she rigged the boiler. That would definitely be a trap. Now let's say the intention of the boiler is merely to destroy the mansion and remove all evidence, and Battler HAPPENS to be there. Through a bit of word play, it is no longer a trap, but an accident (technically a felony murder) |
2009-06-11, 17:42 | Link #1232 |
At the end of this world
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 39
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I brought an expert on that subject:
----------- The observation with the chess pieces is remarkable. Certainly it's possible that the reason Battler is so obsessively vehement about denying magic and supernatural, because his own "mom" (at least that's how he knows) was unaffected by Battler's attempts of preventing her death via trying to perform alchemy magic. I mean he was 12 at the time, It might be explainable he was desperate to do everything to help her, and It's safe to say he has a very vivid fantasy (i.e minibombs, and how according to him, the victims shoot each other at the same time). He also might have been influenced by Kinzo sometimes in the past, whether intentionally or not. At least Asumu never comes back as a Homonculus Heh... Better not state such things. One never knows with Ryukishi. It would also explain why the hell Maria wears such a silly crown, if she'd be the "queen" black King?.
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Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-06-11 at 18:34. Reason: correction |
2009-06-11, 18:06 | Link #1235 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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LOL! That would be great if that was the real definitin of trap.
BATTLER: The definition of trap? BEATRICE: Let's ask admiral Ackbar ACKBAR: Shannon is a trap!!! BATTLER: Uh? What?!
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2009-06-11, 18:28 | Link #1237 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Jokes apart:
Definition of trap as stated by Beatrice: Something invoked when a victim gets caught in it by their own actions. that's not all! Things invoked by remote control or by a timer, ......everything like that is also included! Ronove's addendum: All devices that can succeed in murder without the direct participation of the person who set it up. I believe that definition may be appropriate. I think Ronove's definition includes the situation mentioned by Squirrellord.
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2009-06-11, 18:44 | Link #1239 |
Senior Member
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So it does, Jan-poo, so it does.
Well, then I don't know how Battler dies, but I still think the boiler goes off to clear the evidence :P And about Natsuhi's headache... she got a real *splitting* one this time ;D Didn't Krauss mention it though, when she was defending Kinzo's honor, that if she got too worked up it'd get bad again? She really didn't have a lot of screen time, which is probably why it wasn't mentioned. |
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