Overwatch

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by Keila

The Zenyatta and Winston buffs are absolutely huge (as far as the respective heroes are concerned)

The Ana nerf is far bigger IMO. And very welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

[MeoTwister5]

Well Ana is now shit tier healer.

As a former Winston main the CD change on the barrier is huge. In practice it's a drastic overall increase in barrier uptime. Add increased barrier HP and you have a new primary tanker.

Overall IMHO the biggest change is actually that Discord can now be used through barriers. For some it might not sound like much but as Zen player the biggest annoyance for keeping it up was always a Rein with shield. Now that you can target him with a shield up and anyone else behind is actually a HUGE dps buff for him and his team.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Well Ana is now shit tier healer.

You have some very weird standards if such a minor change to Ana drastically alters your perception of her. It's a grenade nerf (and the grenade really shouldn't be the bulk of your healing).

[MeoTwister5]

I would have argued that the damage reduction on the nade was good but the heal nerf? Ana has no self heal or shields and relies on the nade to do it. With the debuff on nade bonus healing and duration the burst heal helped compensate for that nerf. Now at 50 burst heal the least they could do is shorten the CD.

The damage nerd on her gun isn't that big an issue since damage isn't really the primary focus.

I accept the need to veer away from the triple tank meta but honestly this seems a wee bit too much.

[Keila]

The grenade is an area of effect ability. Even ignoring that, Ana is/was literally the only hero with an instant cast ability that restores 50% of her health pool.


Every sort of 'justification' that could be raised as to why Ana should be like 'x' is just as easily countered by the position that not all heroes are supposed to be the same, they're designed to fulfill their roles differently and Ana has 'y' that 'z' heroes do not have.

[Tokkan]

The Ana bionade nerf and Zenyatta Discord buff are being reverted in a build coming to the PTR tomorrow. In other news, hacked health packs are going to be visible through walls to Sombra and her team mates (this change came in a new PTR build out today).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

The Ana bionade nerf and Zenyatta Discord buff are being reverted in a build coming to the PTR tomorrow. In other news, hacked health packs are going to be visible through walls to Sombra and her team mates (this change came in a new PTR build out today).

Makes sense that Ana either need her primary attack nerfed OR her grenade nerfed, but not both. With her gun weakened she will still struggle in 1v1 but not completely powerless with a full strength grenade.

Interesting about the Zenyatta Discord buff being reverted, I guess they are worried about too many damage multipliers stacking. As currently there is no cap on damage boosts.

EDIT: There is also a different Zenyatta buff in the new PTR. His Orb of Destruction now has no spread at all. This means his primary fire is now absolutely straight to the crosshair, even though it still has travel time. So it seems they are trying out different buffs.

[Tokkan]

A bionade nerf was needed IMO; the 'nades health swing on live is 160, making Ana TOO effective in 1v1s for a support. I agree the 50 heals was a bit too low for her survivability.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

A bionade nerf was needed IMO; the 'nades health swing on live is 160, making Ana TOO effective in 1v1s for a support. I agree the 50 heals was a bit too low for her survivability.

Self sustain is basically a trait of healer supports. Blizzard likely decided that Ana's role as healer is more important than her ability to do dps. Hence the decision to revert the grenade but keep the primary fire nerf.

Had it been the other way around, Ana would have become generic dps and not being a Support at all. Blizzard want Ana to stay in the support category.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Self sustain is basically a trait of healer supports. Blizzard likely decided that Ana's role as healer is more important than her ability to do dps. Hence the decision to revert the grenade but keep the primary fire nerf.

I don't think you quite understand that her biotic grenade hard counters flankers way more effectively than McCree's flashbang. She does McCree's job better than McCree and it's not even supposed to be her job.

[MeoTwister5]

I don't see how the grenade is a flanker hard counter. The most it could do was scare the flanker away, but no way in heck could Ana do realistically enough damage to a flanker centered around the grenade unless she hits him with the dart first, then does the grenade/gun/melee combo. As long as McCree hit the flashbang and had a full clip when he Fans, flankers are immediately screwed (unless of course half the Fan shots miss or something).

You could argue that the grenade was OP in team fights because it simultaneously healed and damaged.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The most it could do was scare the flanker away, but no way in heck could Ana do realistically enough damage to a flanker centered around the grenade unless she hits him with the dart first, then does the grenade/gun/melee combo.

Don't you mean gun>grenade>gun>melee combo? Even with nerf to her rifle damage that's still 205 damage.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

Don't you mean gun>grenade>gun>melee combo? Even with nerf to her rifle damage that's still 205 damage.

GGM seems to be more realistic than GGGM, at least for most people. Tracer and Genji can get away after 3 of those hits before the punch or the last shot. At least I've never been able to land GGGM successfully before, and that's even assuming you can land the dart on those fast moving flankers in the first place.

That said a support shouldn't be having to fight off flankers in the first place if the team knew how to guard their supports properly. Supports by nature should be running or defending from, not killing, flankers. Mercy and Lucio have great escape mechanisms, Zen can even the odds with Discord, Sym has her turrets and her auto tracking attack, Ana has the dart and if need to the grenade. All of them sans Ana have some sort of self sustain be it health regen or shields. Ana has only the grenade. Nerf the grenade damage I will gladly accept it, but please not the heal.

Edit - And speaking of Zen her primary fire was almost always straight to the crosshairs; it was his secondary that had a bit of spread. The buff should make long range engagements with his secondary more friendly, though I really would have preferred that the OoD still be allowed through barriers.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Only people that would actually get hit with a full GGGM combo from Ana are incompetents. There's not enough animation canceling ability with that combo for anyone to get hit with it. And any halfway-decent Tracer will use Recall, and Genji can reflect or double jump away. Any good flanker shouldn't be getting hit by Ana in the first place. Tracer, Genji, and Reaper should all have a distinct advantage over Ana if they strike first and their aim doesn't suck.

Ana is first and foremost a healer. Take that away, and you might as well just play Soldier-76 or Widowmaker. Anyone that's going for damage as a support should be choosing Zenyatta. Both lack mobility, so both are often very similarly positioned in terms of backline/frontline heroes.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

I don't think you quite understand that her biotic grenade hard counters flankers way more effectively than McCree's flashbang. She does McCree's job better than McCree and it's not even supposed to be her job.

Blizzard is fine with that, they simply had to decide what they want Ana to be. And the lowest priority was her ability to kill at long range. The Grenade is great defensively but she needed to get into melee range for offensive grenade.

She is still strong, she just now need to focus on healing others than getting kills herself.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The Grenade is great defensively but she needed to get into melee range for offensive grenade.

You can actually 'lob' her grenade across significant parts of the map as long as you know how to use it and the 'splash' it does is always maximum at the point of impact.


Regarding her damage nerf (shots) think of this from a different perspective. Using 'live' values where her shots deal 80 damage.

○ +30% Boost (Mercy or Zenyatta) = 104 damage per shot
○ +50% Boost (Orisa) = 120 damage per shot
○ +60% Boost (Mercy + Zenyatta) = 128 damage per shot
○ +110% Boost (Mercy + Orisa + Zenyatta) = 168 damage per shot

It wouldn't be unreasonable to have a team that included all 3 of these damage boosting heroes (and realistically you'd be insane not to).

Ana has a fire rate of 1.25rounds/second, many heroes only have 200hp.

[MrTerrorist]

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[hoshino_crimsonwings]

Any GM+ players here looking for a team?

[Keila]

New PTR Changes: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/20635660

Most Importantly: Lucio is now the worst healer in the game (even worse than Zenyatta).


Lucio (changes regarding healing)
○ Song's area-of-effect radius decreased from 30 meters to 10 meters
• Healing-per-second has been increased by 50% (also applies to Lúcio's Amp It Up ability)

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Keila

New PTR Changes: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/20635660

Most Importantly: Lucio is now the worst healer in the game (even worse than Zenyatta).


Lucio (changes regarding healing)
○ Song's area-of-effect radius decreased from 30 meters to 10 meters
• Healing-per-second has been increased by 50% (also applies to Lúcio's Amp It Up ability)

Well this is generally just going to decrease Lucio's capacity to hold a larger area on either offense or defense. This will just require better coordination as squadmates will have to stick closer to him rather than the general vicinity.

Given the overall increase in healing rate, he's still primo uno support as long as people ARE aware they have to stand closer to him.