2008-08-06, 14:59 | Link #1282 | ||
Senior Member
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Looks like alchemy ( if we define it as the above..) doesnt have a particularly bright future quite as yet |
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2008-08-06, 15:12 | Link #1283 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I don't think that scientists will ever use the word "alchemy" to describe what they do. Specifically, I am reminded of a conversation that Frederick Soddy had with Ernest Rutherford when they discovered, during an experiment, that thorium was converting into radium. It is said that, upon this discovery, that Soddy remarked, "Rutherford, this is transmutation!" To which Rutherford replied, "Soddy, don't call it transmutation! They'll have our heads off as alchemists!"
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2008-08-06, 15:30 | Link #1286 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Eh. He talked about changing objects into others. He didn't talk about atoms. Did alchemists even know what atoms were?
For that matter, the whole transmutation thing... Wasn't that only part of what alchemists researched? Eternal life and homunculus also come to mind. |
2008-08-06, 15:30 | Link #1287 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Age: 34
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Well, actually alchemy can sometimes be frowned upon by various religious persons. Especially if it is changing one object into another, as they see it as us abusing Gods power and changing something natural that he has made for a reason, into something entirely different. Those people do not seem to see that using natural eggs to make something bigger and with a completely different shape and taste, such as a cake, is basically the same thing in some areas..although I am sure that those people whom are against alchemy and even science would happily eat home-made cakes. Cooking is a form of science too.
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2008-08-06, 16:29 | Link #1288 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Here is my favourite homunculi: Quote:
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2008-08-06, 17:01 | Link #1289 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 38
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Alchemy is pre-chemistry, pure and simple. They systematically mixed stuff together with the intent of seeing what would happen. Yes, they had goals that nowadays seem pseudoscientific, but at the time that this was happening there was no such distinction.
Fly eggs are too small to see without a microscope, so it was commonly believed that maggots were "spontaneously generated" by rotting meat. They didn't have genetics and dissecting humans was taboo and they therefore lacked knowledge of the female egg, so they assumed that sperm contained everything necessary to make a human, provided that they could make an artificial womb. And obviously without knowledge of the atom and its subatomic forces they had no way to know that turning lead into gold was any more impossible than making bronze out of tin and copper; it was just assumed that they hadn't discovered how yet. Of course, to us, these seem superstitious and weird, but back then it was just trying to understand the world and use that to their advantage, just like what we do every day with modern technology. Unfortunately, the idea of openly sharing scientific ideas wasn't around back then, so most alchemists wrote their notes and formulas using bizarre and nonsensical terms that they made up and only revealed to trusted peers, leading to an occult perception of their work, and possibly occult behavior in their successors. Last edited by Clarste; 2008-08-06 at 17:45. |
2008-08-06, 17:37 | Link #1290 | |
Mr. Awesome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Underpants Gnome Factory
Age: 37
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If you rearranged the atoms to turn that furniture into a pile of tacos that would be Alchemy |
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2008-08-06, 21:28 | Link #1292 |
Gregory House
IT Support
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Also, I think you're taking this whole "turning x into y" thing a bit too lightly, as if was theoretically possible to turn a basic element into any other in a trivial, "magic" manner... but physics (un?)fortunately doesn't work that way. There are much more complex rules that "regulate" the existence and stability of atoms, which would be better explained by any physicist.
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2008-08-07, 04:12 | Link #1293 | |
Banned
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While I would not expect everyone to approve of such faith, I would still say that's a far cry from fanaticism. Fanaticism is when you start imposing your own belief and ideals on others. Even if a person's faith is not based in deep philosophical examination or logic, that's a disant step from the intolerance and hatred that fanaticism implies. |
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2008-08-07, 05:00 | Link #1294 | ||||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Court rejects convert’s renunciation of Islam appeal Quote:
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2008-08-07, 05:43 | Link #1295 | |
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pardon me, its my fault if i gave the impression that thats what i thought was fanatisicm. what i said about fanaticism should actually be considered seperate. Its a fact by coincidence, that a large number religious fanatics, ( im referring specifically to radical fundametalism.. not all 'fanatics' per se) are from economically and socially under-priviliged groups. While religion is the mask for some actions, the state of peoples lives probably provides more motivation. |
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2008-08-07, 06:14 | Link #1296 | ||
Banned
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I should just say, in the source of your examples (Malaysia) the population is 60% Muslim, while in Pakistan it's 97% Muslim. That means when I speak of my own experience, I've had almost no observation of non-Muslims. There are problems that the Christian minority here faces occasionally, but it just isn't an issue that a normal Muslim here would have much awareness of. Quote:
Last edited by Amirali; 2008-08-07 at 09:30. |
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2008-08-07, 08:29 | Link #1297 | |
Senior Member
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Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
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Absolutely, From what i can see, the actual leaders of radical elements are normally relatively well off compared to most others. The targets, however, are normally the young and underpriviliged |
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2008-08-07, 13:37 | Link #1298 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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2008-08-07, 14:13 | Link #1299 |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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These Malaysian cases are... very complicated, for constitutional and historical reasons. An ethnic Malay is defined, by Malaysia's constitution, to be Muslim. A Malay who renounces Islam must also renounce his ethnicity, and correspondingly, his bumiputra rights (special privileges accorded only to ethnic Malays). Historically, the Malays of the Peninsular Malaysia have "always" been Muslim, and the Sultans are the ultimate authorities in Islamic matters in each of their respective states.
Meaning to say, you can't even begin to seperate Islam from State in Malaysia. Being Muslim is part of Malay identity. For non-Muslims to question this would be tantamount to treason. In other words, you'll never find anyone discussing their objections, however mild, in open — because anything you say can, and will be, very quickly twisted against you. Which is also why, in both Malaysia and Singapore, religion is a strictly taboo subject that the press is generally not allowed to report freely. The risks of bloody violence as a result of careless words are simply too high to take. In my opinion, this is also why secular thought is ostracised in this region, to the detriment of our respective societies. |
2008-08-07, 15:03 | Link #1300 | |
Mr. Awesome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Underpants Gnome Factory
Age: 37
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Any country who mixes religion and spiritual nonsense with law will forever be an inferior third world nation. In the United States (although highly unlikely) even a Jew and a Muslim could get married and nobody cares. The United States is the power it is today because it threw away the hatred and religious nonsense in its law system. |
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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