2009-10-17, 15:44 | Link #1361 | |
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Because I'm pretty convinced that Shannon is the letter writer. And "Beatrice." Either way, the pool of people who CANNOT have mailed the payout letters includes Battler's family. So either Rudolf and Kyrie didn't intentionally keep Ange from coming, they did for another reason and the letter writer found out in time, or they're working with the letter writer. I think the second is most likely; Rudolf and Kyrie have their own plan for the conference, and Ange must be kept away for some reason. Only problem is, why would they not want to risk Ange's life but risk Battler's? Or if the plan isn't supposed to risk anybody's life, why not bring Ange along? Her absence is quite suspicious, though it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything more to it. I mean she could actually be sick, after all. |
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2009-10-17, 15:44 | Link #1362 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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All right these are the right screenshots however I'd like to point out that the professor didn't say straight away that the writing is the same. He's going by memory and he himself isn't so sure.
As for the second matter 1) the witch's record isn't red text, there is no need to think it is 100% accurate. Actually if you look it carefully it was created in a way to be deceiving. It first tells you that the police found a "gruesome scene" and then jumps on the fact that this was later known as the "rokkenjima serial murder" completely omitting to say that this was due to magazines and talk shows and not because the police actually backed this. Since they omitted this important part there's nothing strange in the fact many other things were omitted. 2) If you claim that the episode3 continuity is different than episode1 or episode2 continuity, then you could as well say that the handwriting stuff also only applies to episode3. But I don't believe so because the witch's record and what the future of episode3 shows are perfectly compatible. Anything that seems a difference can be explained by omissions in the way the facts are presented. In other words they describe the same thing. The witch's record differs only in that it gives more fragmented informations. In conclusion I see little reasons for Ryukishi to have shown to us a future scenario that has only relevance for a single timiline. What Ange found out about Beatrice must apply to all the games to have any meaning. To Renall. You made a very nice analysis there. However that amount of money if we suppose that every locker contains the same amount is way too huge to be explained with a mere servant pay. Even Shannon can't possibly have that cash. I think the only possible solutions are: 1) Since Beatrice owns the gold she converted into money a few ingots. As far as I know they were never counted, and even the anime shows a pyramid that appears to be short of a hundred ingots to reach 1000. 2) There is an external collaborator that provided the money to Beatrice. But who would make such an useless investment?
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2009-10-17, 15:46 | Link #1363 | |
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2009-10-17, 16:01 | Link #1365 | ||
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I would consider the letter-writer knowing that Battler would be there relatively unsuspicious. There would be a limited amount of time that this could be known, but I think it would have had to be announced a reasonable amount of time before October 4th, because it would be impolite to the hosts to have someone there that had not been planned for. I feel that knowing that Ange would not be there is the much more suspicious point. Still, very early on the 4th this seems to be common knowledge. I assume that on the 3rd or perhaps even the 2nd, the fact that Ange would not be arriving would be known to most. The messages in a bottle would have to be changed and Ange would need to get a money letter, but substituting someone else's to give her one (our favorite Sumadera maybe?) might accomplish the latter, and writing the message bottles wouldn't take TOO long. It depends on who we want to suspect here and what we want to accuse them of. I don't think we can be sure enough to state it in red that the letter-writer him-or-herself was on Niijima on October 3rd. It could easily have been an accomplice. It's very likely, though. It's interesting about the letter-writer not seeming to know that Kinzo is dead if the messages describe episodes one and two. (Though, could someone please point me in the direction of the scene where Ange relates the contents of the bottle messages and they actually sound like the first two episodes? I'm sure it's just somewhere blindingly obvious since everyone seems to think that's what happened, but I can't remember anything like that and searching the script for key words is getting me nowhere.) However, episodes one and two do contain a lot of clear hints in that direction (for example, in episode two, no one ever seems to worry about Kinzo's safety, and even as everyone becomes more paranoid, no one accuses Kinzo of running around being the killer, even though that would be a completely valid guess if no one's seen the body, which does not get burned or ever show up, and you're assuming that only dead people are eliminated from suspicion... Quote:
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2009-10-17, 16:11 | Link #1366 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Workworkwork, replying to your Episode 4 thread post:
Knox's 10th Commandment: Disguising oneself as another character without any clues to that effect is forbidden. It is a violation of the 17-human limit for Kumasawa and a hypothetical Kumasawa!Beatrice to be alive on the island at the time Maria is given the letter. So long as you cannot present foreshadowing that Kumasawa is dead prior to everyone arriving on the island on October 4th, you cannot introduce Kumasawa!Beatrice as a character. Last edited by LyricalAura; 2009-10-17 at 16:16. Reason: 17-human limit, not 18 |
2009-10-17, 16:15 | Link #1367 | |
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2009-10-17, 16:16 | Link #1368 | |
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2009-10-17, 16:17 | Link #1369 | |
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Then in episode 3, during the magic scene, we see Kumasawa turning into Virgilia. This is enough to provide a clue that there's more to Kumasawa than we see.
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2009-10-17, 16:18 | Link #1370 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Support for this theory continues to accrue every day, ohoho.
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2009-10-17, 16:25 | Link #1371 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Even if the writer wrote the letters after the incident he might have told the same stories, you don't know what exactly is his plan but we know for sure that telling an accurate or credible story wasn't part of his project anyway.
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2009-10-17, 16:30 | Link #1372 | |
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It isn't the same thing. In ep5 the theory of someone disguising as Rosa was denied. I can't see why the same shouldn't apply to Kumasawa or anyone else. Of course you can still say that someone is disguised as one of the 18, but you need to provide a clue.
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2009-10-17, 16:41 | Link #1374 |
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I don't think anyone should have disguised himself/herself as Beatrice, if we're talking about Maria, since she's quite gullible. In EP3, she easily recognised EVA as Beatrice, right after she called herself that way. So, I think anyone could easily have just told Maria he/she was Beatrice, and she'd probably have believed it.
As for the person Battler met in EP4, would that count as a disguise? I mean, that person was wearing casual clothes. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of trying to pose as the Golden Witch Beatrice?
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2009-10-17, 16:48 | Link #1375 |
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Actually, now that I think on it I think you're right and it's the opposite; the letter-writer probably does know Kinzo is dead, but is forgetting that this knowledge carries over into their scenarios.
Thus, no one accuses Kinzo of being the killer even though he's never accounted-for and has a near-impenetrable hideout to retreat to. No one seems terribly concerned for his safety. The few times it's mentioned they suggest he's safe in his study, but they don't know whether he stays there (it's noted he might leave when he gets hungry) and if the killer can enter seemingly locked rooms, why can't the killer get into the study somehow? He's mentioned and shown, but never seriously considered as an alive person ought to be in the story. It seems reasonable, I guess, that the letter writer - if indeed the events of the episodes were what was written in the bottles and not something else entirely - knew Kinzo was dead, but had to pretend that Kinzo was not dead. They just didn't do a very good job of it. Of course, if you knew Kinzo was dead, why would his body turn up in the same burned circumstances three games out of four? If you're just writing imaginary scenarios where everyone dies, you wouldn't need to do that. Which makes me suspect the messages in bottles don't describe any episode at all. EDIT: Also, I see no reason the messages in bottles would just stop the way the games do. If the story in the bottle were episode 1, for instance, why would you just end right where it ends? What happens to the children? What happens to Beatrice? ep3 and 4 are also somewhat abrupt. We can guess and infer what happens from the epilogue and witch's record, but Ange suggests the messages describe everyone dying. So unless they also end with "And then everyone left died, THE END," I have to think the messages in the bottles suggest an endgame scenario that we've never seen come to pass. Ange would be aware of this, but she never brings it up. She also never brings up whether she's in any of the letters. |
2009-10-17, 17:06 | Link #1376 |
French Maid
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 32
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I was wondering reading your post:
Could it be that the "missing" in the game record could suggest that there is survivors? For example, is there any indication in Ep3/4 that Jessica's corpse was found? It could be a hint for telling us that if there is survivors, they could have reasons to hide themselves. |
2009-10-17, 17:09 | Link #1377 | |
* ahaha.wav *
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not like it changes anything. |
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2009-10-17, 17:23 | Link #1378 | |||
Homo Ludens
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You guys think there's a lot more stuff Ange knows that she's not telling us? Quote:
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...It would probably be very easy to figure this out just by looking at her notebook, though. |
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2009-10-17, 17:31 | Link #1379 | |
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2009-10-17, 17:37 | Link #1380 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Maria's jaw, her JAW, was found in the aftermath of Ep1. I seem to recall that the only reason they couldn't identify them as dead was because, except for the large amount of blood, there weren't any identifiable remains. |
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