Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Honestly, HF is more spoilered by Zero than Fate is. Of the three major plot twists from HF, two are spoilered in the prologue of Zero (Sakura's situation and Sakura's relationship to Rin) and the other (Sakura being the true Matou master) is pretty strongly hinted at.

True, but I find it weird that we didn't get to see Shinji as well.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by mirakura

True, but I find it weird that we didn't get to see Shinji as well.

The excuse was that he was studying overseas at the time.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, that is just about possible. But, honestly, it comes across as really quite contrived the way you're writing it. If Kotomine was going to tell Lancer to kill himself, why would he wait for Rin to be freed first?

Basically, when Kotomine orders Lancer to kill Rin, Lancer instantly frees her instead (maybe even approaches her as if he was going to cut through her, but then cuts her bonds instead). Meaning Kirei doesn't sit around and wait, Lancer just takes him by surprise by ignoring his command and siding with Rin instead. Then, realizing his Servant has betrayed him, Kotomine tells him to kill himself. It works just as well as the original scenario and would give Rin that extra father-avenging moment that would make her seem less secondary in her own route (which was always been one of the biggest criticisms thrown at her character, that she's not even the focus in her own route).

Anyway, regardless of whether they tweak the scene or not, it should be fun to see F/Z-only watchers' reactions to Cu meeting the exact same end as Diarmuid.

[Stanfoo]

Found this interview with the producer of Ufotable. G translate does a crummy job of translating. Anyone know if there's anything worth taking away from this?

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by scyllus

Let's see for fate we have:
-Saber identity and wish
-Why Shirou is nearly immortal next to saber
-Kiritsugu motives for the destruction of the grail
-And Kotomine involvement
-Gil
-Grail's corruption
-Whole grail war buisness?

For UBW:
-Rin's past
-Gil's motives.

For HF:
-Sakura's wonderful adopted family life
-Kirei's true character and past
-Ilya connection to Shirou
-Rin being Sakura sis
-Zouken the best dad and granddad 4eva

I'm pretty sure i forgot a lot of things. I would say fate is much more spoiled by zero, every reused character is spoiler by themselves while for HF it just whets the appetite

Zero does it job better as an introduction to the setting than Fate IMO cuz it mentions important points and doesn't have to rely on shock value like the vn does.

Fate: It's a good guess, but it isn't revealed in Zero that Shirou was implanted with the sheath. Kiritsugu's motives and Kirei's involvement apply in HF just as well, so do Gil and the Grail's corruption.

HF: Yeah, you forgot a few. Like Kiritsugu being hired by the Einzberns.

You have to look at it separately. If someone watches Zero only and then watch either Fate or HF, he/she knows a lot more twists in HF than in Fate. Fate already has less twists than HF and usually HF is seen after already having seen Fate and UBW's twists, so Zero automatically spoils more.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Fate: It's a good guess, but it isn't revealed in Zero that Shirou was implanted with the sheath. Kiritsugu's motives and Kirei's involvement apply in HF just as well, so do Gil and the Grail's corruption.

HF: Yeah, you forgot a few. Like Kiritsugu being hired by the Einzberns.

You have to look at it separately. If someone watches Zero only and then watch either Fate or HF, he/she knows a lot more twists in HF than in Fate. Fate already has less twists than HF and usually HF is seen after already having seen Fate and UBW's twists, so Zero automatically spoils more.

I am one of those who did:

DEEN/Stay Night (EP1-3, then dropped) -> ufotable/Zero -> TM/Stay Night VN

And I can say that while HF probably has most things spoilt from F/0, it also expands most on the plot points from Zero IMO.
I also have to completely deny that BS about "watching Zero first makes Stay Night less exciting". Reveals and Plot-twists never were a strong point of the whole VN anyway, IMO.

The only exception to all of this being the Fate route, which is more or less an introductional route and "re-explained" everything I already knew from Zero, which may possibly be the reason why it was not adapted.

But Zero did not have any real spoilers about Archer, aside from information about reality marbles, so UBW probably has the least spoilers from Zero, which makes the reason to adapt this route as the TV anime quite logical actually.

HF is probably the most spoilt by Zero, however compared to the Fate route, in HF the spoilers are not just "stated" but actualy "processed", which means in HF the open plot points from Zero are actually continued and resolved (i.e. Illya, Kirei, Sakura, Zouken, Sakura/Rin sisters, AM. While in Fate that only really happens in regard to Saber and the "Saber/Gil conflict"). That's probably why they also decided to do HF.


I think Shirou's ideals are covered (more or less) by all routes, so I left that out. As you can see there are other reasons aside from "Waifu wars" why ufotable made their decision like this. Of course this is only one PoV, the PoV of someone who watched F/0 first. But the adaptions may be different from the VN in some ways, so the comparison between F/0 anime and F/SN VN does not necessarily equal to a comparison between the F/0 anime and the future F/SN anime adaptions.

[Lorhand]

Um, I am not even taking part of this discussion why ufotable picked UBW, lol. There are many reasonable explanations for that. All I'm saying is that scyllus is wrong if he says Fate spoils more than HF. I have to say some of FSN's twists were very good though and I don't think it's good how someone who starts with FZ already knows certain things after the first episode. Whenever someone asks which order would be better, I always recommend the release order. It's kinda infuriating how Sakura is neglected in two routes, if you already know about her background.

[TwilightsCall]

Originally Posted by Stanfoo

Found this interview with the producer of Ufotable. G translate does a crummy job of translating. Anyone know if there's anything worth taking away from this?

Not especially.

The interviewer called ufotable out on putting deliberately misleading scenes in their previous trailers to obfuscate the route, so ufotable admitted this time that the latest PVs use only images that are actually going to appear in their respective stories.

Other than that, they talk about stuff like ufotable's history with TM work, and when asked what some of the difficult parts of the adaptation were/are, they said something like "making Fate/Stay night for this era," and what that all entails.

There isn't any really specific information given, so you aren't missing much by not being able to read it.

[GreyZone]

This reminds me... the 2nd PV showed Shirou with 3 intact command spells... that was from the HF movie(s), I guess? Or was it a change in the story (one of the rumored "original contents")?

[Lorhand]

It was either

1. From HF
2. From UBW, but somehow Shirou can stop Saber without using the Command Spell
3. A troll move to keep people guessing. Unlikely, though, since the interview says no footage from the PVs is only in the PVs.

[scyllus]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Um, I am not even taking part of this discussion why ufotable picked UBW, lol. There are many reasonable explanations for that. All I'm saying is that scyllus is wrong if he says Fate spoils more than HF. I have to say some of FSN's twists were very good though and I don't think it's good how someone who starts with FZ already knows certain things after the first episode. Whenever someone asks which order would be better, I always recommend the release order. It's kinda infuriating how Sakura is neglected in two routes, if you already know about her background.

Fair enough- i'm just not really a fan of vn structure. Because if you look at all the routes after reading the whole thing, hidden plots feel a little contrived. It was better in tsukihime, but there were 2 stories here. And I always start reading from the last page

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

It was either

1. From HF
2. From UBW, but somehow Shirou can stop Saber without using the Command Spell
3. A troll move to keep people guessing. Unlikely, though, since the interview says no footage from the PVs is only in the PVs.

Now that I think about it... I got the feeling that they tried to do UBW & HF in 1 anime, but later on decided against it. That would explain why they started with production so early, but even though they had most episodes ready, had to take so much time in order to split it up in the end.

[scyllus]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Now that I think about it... I got the feeling that they tried to do UBW & HF in 1 anime, but later on decided against it. That would explain why they started with production so early, but even though they had most episodes ready, had to take so much time in order to split it up in the end.

Oh the horror try imaging kuzuki fending off the shadow with his snake-fu to keep UBW together while introducing HF xD
His life is in danger. That's all that matters. Kuzuki knows no fear. He stands in front of his enemy, calmly analyzing it weak points. His training didn't include unidentified homicidal black things, but trying to teach the black masses of higschool students gives him the edge he needs.
"Gotta go for the shadow" he murmurs in his mind and before the thought was over his fist is arleady on it's way. The black mass stands frozen in space seemingly suprised by his odd way of moving. The body of the snake, his elbow, goes next to the Shadow's shadow to change direction with a fluid movement at the last moment. He can feel his fist entering some strange substance, yet he goes straight for the weak point. No matter the enemy Kuzuki is THE Killer. And he beats up teenage girls without remorse xD

PS.Now I'm sad that they aren't mixing up the routes xD We're missing comedy and fanbase rage of the century.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by scyllus

Oh the horror try imaging kuzuki fending off the shadow with his snake-fu to keep UBW together while introducing HF xD

I would definitly watch that!

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Honestly, HF is more spoilered by Zero than Fate is. Of the three major plot twists from HF, two are spoilered in the prologue of Zero (Sakura's situation and Sakura's relationship to Rin) and the other (Sakura being the true Matou master) is pretty strongly hinted at.

And don't forget the reveal that Ilya is Shirou's stepsister.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

3. A troll move to keep people guessing. Unlikely, though, since the interview says no footage from the PVs is only in the PVs.

Footage doesn't have to be PV only to still be a troll. Just have two versions of the scene. The real one with 2 command seals, and the troll PV one with 3 command seals. The studio that does the Evangelion movies does stuff like this for their PVs.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

And don't forget the reveal that Ilya is Shirou's stepsister.

It's not a reveal, to us than it is to Shirou. I already kinda figured out they were steps before reading HF, Shirou's an idiot and the only one who wouldn't have known that from all the clues given.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by mirakura

It's not a reveal, to us than it is to Shirou. I already kinda figured out they were steps before reading HF, Shirou's an idiot and the only one who wouldn't have known that from all the clues given.

Not everyone figures it out beforehand. I for example only discovered it in the HF route.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Not everyone figures it out beforehand. I for example only discovered it in the HF route.

That said, it's probably because 'my logic is idiotic'. Yesh remember who said that?

[GreyZone]

I just remembered that UBW is the only route where Shirou developes any kind of fighting skills. At the end of UBW he already had at least 10% of Heroic Spirit Emiya's power, since he was able to beat Heroic Spirit Emiya who was at 10% of his powers.

Once he developes his magic circuit enough he should be a damn powerful mage. He "cheated" to know the fighting techniques that are best fitted for him early on and also learned what kind of magic is most accustomed to him. Just imagine the terror of a random mage that tries to fight Shirou in the future. Then UBW gets casted, which gives Shirou the offensive power that almost equals GoB. It may not be enough against an enemy Servant, but against other mages he should be able to fare pretty well.

Also generally his projection ability with a bit of strenghening magic should make him good enough even without UBW. Not to mention his talent as an Archer...


Of course further in the future it gets evened out between UBW and HF, as it was stated that Shirou would be able to use his reality marble in HF as well in the future. It is never stated how it is in Fate though... depending on how he decides to live, he may or may not develop his skills there as well.