The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[DJ_RockmanX]

The only times the story really gets serious are when things are imposed onto Kyon that require his immediate and direct action. Typically the best way to differentiate plot crucial events from less noteworthy story elements is through his reduced tsukkomi usage. Not that he doesn't usually still find a way to make witty comments about his situation.

Anyway, back to the VN. The first seven days should pretty much flow the way the novels are written for side story chapters. The first half of the week sounding much like regular school days, and the latter half having emphasis on Kyon making fun of the new troubles of dealing with newcomers from another world, if they get to interact any before Haruki arrives. We could even have the comfortable feeling past this part, so long as Kyon doesn't take Haruki's war declarations too seriously.

[Nanao-kun]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

The only times the story really gets serious are when things are imposed onto Kyon that require his immediate and direct action. Typically the best way to differentiate plot crucial events from less noteworthy story elements is through his reduced tsukkomi usage. Not that he doesn't usually still find a way to make witty comments about his situation.

Anyway, back to the VN. The first seven days should pretty much flow the way the novels are written for side story chapters. The first half of the week sounding much like regular school days, and the latter half having emphasis on Kyon making fun of the new troubles of dealing with newcomers from another world, if they get to interact any before Haruki arrives. We could even have the comfortable feeling past this part, so long as Kyon doesn't take Haruki's war declarations too seriously.

That sounds good.

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by otai

Well, yes; but it is difficult to justify the angsty suffering of a viewpoint character with an absurd premise. Imagine if NGE went...

"OK, the Angels are actually the manifestation of the subconscious emotions of a teenage girl named Suzumiya Haruhi."

Shinji:"OK... I'm just gonna slit my wrists in the bathtub now."

Asuka:"Hey! Why is her angst more important than mine?!"

Rei:"..."

Now, if things were light and fluffy, then thrown into an absurd premise for mindscrew, it'd be more disturbing. Like say, RARG.

...Uh...RARG?

[otai]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

You might be missing the point. It's all in how the premise is introduced.

Haruhi's premise would not be seen as absurd, or funny, if the tone was, say, considerably darker.

Haruhi can destroy the world AT ANY TIME. The people around her she views as her slaves, and they act accordingly, if only to keep her from destroying the world. She molests an innocent, pitiable girl on a regular basis. She's a thief, a tyrant, and a sociopath.

The only thing keeping this from being a depressing, horrifying premise is that it's played for comedy. And honestly, it is funny.

It's healthy to laugh.

OK, you're right, it's all in the execution. And serious things can be inherently absurd, silly and funny, like nuclear MAD.
But to me, a serious tone in a story can be impaired by an absurd premise.

You know, does Haruhi really threaten the world? The closest she came to it was in Vol 1; where she created a sealed reality for Kyon and herself that will eventually become the new world. The old one still exists; and only Koizumi states that it may be destroyed once the new world is complete. According to Yuki's statements, the IDE at least will survive; and we got nothing from Asahina.

Can you trust Koizumi? How would the Organization know? Did they at some point allow a closed space to run unchecked as an experiment? Maybe the world will continue to exist without Haruhi; the Organization just doesn't want to be out of their jobs.

And if the sealed reality is the beginning of a new world, why did the Shinjin need to attack it while God is in it? Maybe they came from somewhere else?

Originally Posted by Cat Megex

...Uh...RARG?

Not anime, but still disturbing. RARG

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Haruhi can destroy the world AT ANY TIME. The people around her she views as her slaves, and they act accordingly, if only to keep her from destroying the world. She molests an innocent, pitiable girl on a regular basis. She's a thief, a tyrant, and a sociopath.

The only thing keeping this from being a depressing, horrifying premise is that it's played for comedy. And honestly, it is funny.

That's the part you want to point out when it comes to making it sound depressing? What about the fact that, due to how time travel operates in the series, the only thing keeping it from being apparent that no one has any free will except maybe Haruhi is the fact that Mikuru is so far from the future that she wouldn't know how things happened. Volume 7 pretty much spells this out for us, as "Michiru" did have decent knowledge of the week, and Kyon ended up doing everything she said he did, intentionally or not.

Originally Posted by otai

You know, does Haruhi really threaten the world? The closest she came to it was in Vol 1; where she created a sealed reality for Kyon and herself that will eventually become the new world. The old one still exists; and only Koizumi states that it may be destroyed once the new world is complete. According to Yuki's statements, the IDE at least will survive; and we got nothing from Asahina.

Koizumi is going with the worst case scenario, while Mikuru probably didn't even know what was going on until after it happened. On the other hand, Nagato already knew that Kyon and Haruhi would return, largely thanks to BLR and Disappearance. Time travel is "fun" like that.

Originally Posted by otai

Can you trust Koizumi? How would the Organization know? Did they at some point allow a closed space to run unchecked as an experiment? Maybe the world will continue to exist without Haruhi; the Organization just doesn't want to be out of their jobs.

The Organization doesn't know for certain what would happen, they just don't want to take any risk. As for the job thing, Koizumi doesn't really seem all that thrilled with his, and he's the only member we have extensive knowledge about.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

That's the part you want to point out when it comes to making it sound depressing? What about the fact that, due to how time travel operates in the series, the only thing keeping it from being apparent that no one has any free will except maybe Haruhi is the fact that Mikuru is so far from the future that she wouldn't know how things happened. Volume 7 pretty much spells this out for us, as "Michiru" did have decent knowledge of the week, and Kyon ended up doing everything she said he did, intentionally or not.

I was intentionally using the most well-known example.

And I personally don't find a lack of free will depressing given that's how I view time in real life anyway.

But yeah, that's fairly dark in and of itself.

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

The Organization doesn't know for certain what would happen, they just don't want to take any risk. As for the job thing, Koizumi doesn't really seem all that thrilled with his, and he's the only member we have extensive knowledge about.

Koizumi does say rather a lot that he really hope everything goes back to normal so he can stop going out at night to kill monsters.

You know, in a sense, if Koizumi had been the intended target of the Yukiverse rather than Kyon, I think he would have been fine with it...

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

You know, in a sense, if Koizumi had been the intended target of the Yukiverse rather than Kyon, I think he would have been fine with it...

Of course, not only does he not have to fight monsters, he also gets Haruhi as a girlfriend...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Of course, not only does he not have to fight monsters, he also gets Haruhi as a girlfriend...

A perfect world for him.

We can use this.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

A perfect world for him.

We can use this.

Still need to figure out what the Power of Ten can do to achieve that.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Still need to figure out what the Power of Ten can do to achieve that.

I really wanted to shout out "CAPTAAAAAIN PLANEEEEEEET" after I read that.


Seriously though, Koizumi may have figured out some way to combine their powers to achieve something.

Though he wouldn't know that the Harupowers can be TAKEN. At least not at the start...

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I really wanted to shout out "CAPTAAAAAIN PLANEEEEEEET" after I read that.

Seriously though, Koizumi may have figured out some way to combine their powers to achieve something.

More reasons why esper sentai works so well. We can probably give him the outfit from Haruhi-chan. REDDO!

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Though he wouldn't know that the Harupowers can be TAKEN. At least not at the start...

Probably not something he considers safe.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

More reasons why esper sentai works so well. We can probably give him the outfit from Haruhi-chan. REDDO!

...How many FABULOUS cosplayers do we intend to have here?

Though I'm not against him changing wardrobes after he takes over. But it'd probably be something a bit more Zero-esque, if anything.

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Probably not something he considers safe.

Koizumi is fairly genre savvy. He doesn't want to experience A God Am I.

I think, if he could remake the universe, he'd do it without the Harupowers.

[Raiyushi]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

That's about it. Just her cosplaying a "mysterious girl". Yeah.

Hopefully KyoAni doesn't get to this part of Haruhi-chan. Odds are pretty good that they won't, considering that this is from the most recent publication of Shounen Ace.

What I DO wish they'd adapt would be stuff like this:



Gives me tons of ideas for Itsuki/Itsuko's backstory.

This is going to be completely unrelated but....From left to right on the top left frame. Alastor, Yuji, Shana from Shakugan No Shana much?

Although with good execution, I personally say that the Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya would be even more successful than it's original, especially with Kyonko!!!! (goes back to start and reads 695 pages)

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by Raiyushi

This is going to be completely unrelated but....From left to right on the top left frame. Alastor, Yuji, Shana from Shakugan No Shana much?

Although with good execution, I personally say that the Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya would be even more successful than it's original, especially with Kyonko!!!! (goes back to start and reads 695 pages)

We greet you, new initiate, with the traditional Seitenkan greeting:

WELCOME! YOU SHALL SERVE KYONKO WELL.

[Ithekro]

The question on the VN and the use of various tropes. Are you planning on playing the tropes seriously, or for laughs? I ask because probably one reason Haruhi (and possibly Kyonko) works is because the tropes are played for laughs. If it was taken seriously, it probably wouldn't ave worked, or at least not been such a force to start a religion (real or not). It would probably just have been another well handled, but just like any other drama, show.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The question on the VN and the use of various tropes. Are you planning on playing the tropes seriously, or for laughs? I ask because probably one reason Haruhi (and possibly Kyonko) works is because the tropes are played for laughs. If it was taken seriously, it probably wouldn't ave worked, or at least not been such a force to start a religion (real or not). It would probably just have been another well handled, but just like any other drama, show.

Again, the first week will have the tropes played mostly for lulz, although the first week is primarily slice-of-life...

What I want to do is slightly differentiate the genre and focus between each route.

For example, the Esper Route will probably be played mostly for (black) comedy, but only in Kyon's perspective. (I mean, Koizumi as the Big Bad? Come on...)

Interludes, a la Fate/Stay Night and Chaos;HEAd, are useful for explaining parts of the plot outside Kyon's (limited) perspective, although I think we should keep those to a minimum, as one of the main reasons Haruhi is so interesting (and because it can be used for mindscrew purposes) is the extremely limited perspective. Anyway, the Interludes in the Esper Route should be much darker in tone, as they will probably focus entirely on Koizumi.

In contrast, Co-operation (The Kyonko Route) would be mostly about the relationship between the two of them and their attempts to rebuild both their worlds, so that'd be more fantasy/romance... with the Time Traveler route, my suggestion was Murder Mystery Mind Screw, kinda like Higurashi or And Then There Were None.

The Alien Route is mainly based off of Danchou's ideas and not mine, but it seems like "Dark Shonen Action" (like Soul Eater) to me, which is awesome. Probably the most angsty route in general, given the sheer overwhelming power of ANGRY Yuuki.

The God Route will have to be the most like the original books, given that Haruhi is the main girl in that route. So mainly sci-fi comedy/romance.

The "True" Route is a combination of all of the above, with Kyonko as the main girl, though there's little romantic fluff. Probably because everything bad is happening at once.

Hijack Route... well, first, I'm not talking about Hijack, and I really can't come up with a genre for it. I certainly can use tropes though.

Hijack also explains the metaplot. Whether the players find it or not is entirely up to them. Wahaha.

True (FINAL) is the True Route with the revelations from Hijack included, and also functions as an epilogue to that. It is also the only route with a truly happy ending.

Damn that was a lot to type.

[otai]

My favorite aspect of Itsuki is that he has been ambiguous about everything from his sexuality to his loyalty.

Koizumi promised to side with the SOS-dan in the event that he has to choose loyalties;. Is Koizumi actually happy with his life in the SOS-dan as he says? If he truly prefers a life away from weirdness at all costs, surely he wouldn't support Kyon's status quo preservation work.

The promise also implies the Organization probably has factions similar to the IDE, and probably sinister goals in using Haruhi. And frankly, I'd be disappointed if a shadowy Organization with vast resources that was created in a little over 3 years had no goals greater than keeping down the temper tantrums of an omnipotent teenager.

The way I see it, the Organization would have been full of cloak and dagger nonsense, with experiments on espers, Closed Spaces and alien countermeasures. Would explain how Koizumi manages to defeat the aliens to enact his evil plan.

And yes, super sentai Koizumi makes sense: strength in numbers was how Koizumi entered Haruhi's super sealed reality in Vol 1 after all.
Making a super sentai team the bad guys=brilliant subversion.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by otai

My favorite aspect of Itsuki is that he has been ambiguous about everything from his sexuality to his loyalty.

There ARE hints that he's into Haruhi, though. Namely Vol. 4 and that one, rather telling scene in Endless Eight.

Originally Posted by otai

Koizumi promised to side with the SOS-dan in the event that he has to choose loyalties;. Is Koizumi actually happy with his life in the SOS-dan as he says? If he truly prefers a life away from weirdness at all costs, surely he wouldn't support Kyon's status quo preservation work.

I will point out that as this takes place in September, directly after Endless Eight, he hasn't made that promise yet.

Originally Posted by otai

The way I see it, the Organization would have been full of cloak and dagger nonsense, with experiments on espers, Closed Spaces and alien countermeasures. Would explain how Koizumi manages to defeat the aliens to enact his evil plan.

And yes, super sentai Koizumi makes sense: strength in numbers was how Koizumi entered Haruhi's super sealed reality in Vol 1 after all.
Making a super sentai team the bad guys=brilliant subversion.

These are both very good ideas. Thank you very much, as always.


So what Koizumi does is activate some of the Organization's contingency plans... Interesting.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I can't help but think of the Axem Rangers from SMRPG when I think "evil sentai parody."

[otai]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

So what Koizumi does is activate some of the Organization's contingency plans... Interesting.

When you put it that way, it seems only right that Bad Koizumi wears an eyepatch.
Maybe to hide his secret-power/Koizumi-Beam/geass eye or whatever.