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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 16 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 57 | 53.27% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 36 | 33.64% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 7.48% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 4.67% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.93% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-02-08, 22:44 | Link #121 | |||
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 32
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She has yet to really push her way into the spotlight much, and has operated primarily as an observer. I wont argue that. However she has had her moments, and it does make sense when you consider that she's learning. She's not an expert, and that's why she looks to Ko for guidance. I would find it unrealistic if she was as active as Ko is. I maintain that at no point have I ever felt that she is a damsel. She's a rookie "officer," to put it best. Quote:
Additionally, it was a really.Really good hit. For her only scene thus far where she gets to bludgeon someone, she did a damn good job.
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2013-02-08, 22:56 | Link #122 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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And that's exactly why it was a disappointing development to me, as it basically puts Makishima on the same level Senguuji, who also lost his usual cool and caution when faced with a worthwhile prey like Kougami and was thus brought down as an overly entranced thrill seeker. |
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2013-02-08, 23:42 | Link #123 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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I honestly think the enforcers value a superior like Akane who trusts them over some hypothetical meat head commando. Quote:
I mean, Makishima has been fascinated in Kougami despite it being overwhelmingly obvious that Kougami is a professional murder hobo dedicating himself to killing Makishima. As much as Makishima would have liked chatting, it should have been REALLY obvious Kougami wasn't gonna indulge in philosophical navel gazing all night. Makishima knew from the start that his interest in Kougami was probably going to end with the hunting dog going right for his jugular...and I don't think he had any problem with that. Anybody who expresses interest with being in the same room as an enraged hunting dog is probably to some degree or another a reckless thrill seeker. Cause an enraged hunting dog can't be dissuaded by curiosity or intellectual discourse. The only reason it's there is to kill you.
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-02-09 at 00:13. |
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2013-02-09, 00:33 | Link #124 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Greater Boston
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I also love the story setting itself up for the dramatic irony of Akane taking down Sybil (or at least facilitating the takedown of Sybil), when Sybil itself deemed Akane "apt" for the job of Inspector. |
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2013-02-09, 00:44 | Link #125 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The implication that the main antagonist is basically no better than one of his pawns? Why yes, yes it is. For starters, it makes the conflict a lot less layered and a lot less interesting, which isn't usually the case with Urobuchi.
And Kougami's intent alone is not a good enough reason (be it on an in-universe or meta level) for their confrontation to amount to nothing more than a short brawl. In episode 11 Makishima had a showdown with Akane (which was a lot more interesting than this one in spite of the supposed main rivalry being between Kougami and Makishima) and the only reason Akane was there was also just to capture Makishima, but he still had something of substance to say and still managed to put her to the test in more interesting ways than just physically. Now I'm not saying the exact same thing should have happened in his confrontation with Kougami, but would something more akin to his encounter with Akane have been preferable to a brief and brainless fistfight with a really anti-climatic ending? Yes, it would. And don't tell me he couldn't afford to wax philosophy with a hunting dog like Kougami around. He kicked his ass (didn't get hit once, in fact) and immobilized him with ease, so there was nothing stopping him, really. If anything I would have expected that, as soon as he got done with Kougami, Makishima would look around and see if Kougami had any teammates with him that Makishima could use to further test and plunge him into a deeper abyss, etc. But alas, as you said, the prospect of carving Kougami up like a turkey was stimulating enough for him. Which yes, I found surprising, as well as disappointing. |
2013-02-09, 01:44 | Link #126 |
Realistic Idealist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: R'lyeh
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Mahou Shoujo Akane Tsunemori
Ok, so I've been thinking... How was episode 16 a masterpiece (I'm assuming most of you are aware that Butch Gen called Episode 16 this)? In what way, exactly? And... I think I've got it.
It is a masterpiece... Of subversion. A magnificent troll! Possibly. I mean, everyone here is probably all on the same page, "obviously, the thing that wasn't showed on camera, Sibyl's core, is a network of criminally asymptomatic people". I mean, it's painfully obvious, what with all the dystopian Sci-Fi references, and the fact that this series draws a lot of inspiration from Blade Runner, GITS, and Minority Report. Right? What else could it be? Hm... How about something else entirely- something completely, 100% unique- never before seen in science fiction before, something that you would be able to look at and go "HOLY SHIT IT ALL MAKES SENSE". That is how this could be a masterpiece- only, it won't be seen as one until the curtains are lifted. Or, Butch Gen could have just taken many different science fiction concepts and formed an amalgamation of greatness from them, and his masterpiece is succeeding in making a series that truly starts in media res, then going back, and getting caught back up with a scene in perfect synchronicity that doesn't feel at all forced, unlike most every other one done like this that I've seen. Oh well. Long as it's enjoyable to watch, I don't give a shit. Speculah: 1.) Criminally Asymptotic people are androids/gynoids. It's interesting, Especially when you consider Kasei and Akane; if we go by Kasei's apparent age and Akane's actions as that of a "programmed gynoid", there's a possibility that Akane is intended to be the "replacement" for Kasei to continue the charade. I mean, Kasei can't exactly continue as the leader if she appears "old" but is still around, I don't believe. 2.) By the end of the series Akane and Shogo will end up as part of Sibyl's Core in an ending that is so depressing, it will just make you want to draw a hot bath and open up some veins. 3.) Something involving a Cosmic Horror Story. Because naming a cybernetic hunting dog Lovecraft just doesn't cut it. - - - Updated - - - Also, to those complaining about how easily Maki owned Kou, keep in mind, the man went up against 3 other people before him, and by the time he confronted Maki, he was wounded, as opposed to Maki, who was in peak condition. Well, I personally think that Maki would have owned Kou's ass regardless, but still, something to remember. And talking about Maki loosing some character depth by taking pleasure in dominating in a physical confrontation? Don't all people delight in that? Granted, going giddy at the thought of carving the defeated up is a bit less common.
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2013-02-09, 01:53 | Link #127 | ||
:cool:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 32
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We have the beautiful power of being the audience. We know everything, and they know what they know. Since Akane generally follows Ko wherever he goes whenever she can, it's rather strange that he would appear at the top of the tower without her beside him. As far as I know he had no way of knowing that she had accompanied him beyond predicting a likely outcome. As far as hearing her coming, by the time "we" hear her coming she's a good three or four steps out from her epic helmet swing. Makishima is a human being. He just finished a huge fight, he got overconfident, and he wasn't expecting Akane. It makes sense no matter what stick you shake at it.
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2013-02-09, 02:51 | Link #128 | ||||
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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In case you missed it, Makishima has been characterized as someone a tad different from "all people". And more importantly, up until now, he was shown to be someone uninterested in base physical stimulation, usually preferring to observe and test those around him and being generally more concerned with the meaning behind one's actions than the actions themselves. So yes, his behavior in this episode did cheapen his character somewhat, in my view. Last edited by Vicious108; 2013-02-09 at 03:03. |
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2013-02-09, 03:56 | Link #129 | ||||
:cool:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 32
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In addition, almost all of Makishima's fighting involved countering and throwing Ko. The only real blows struck are the kicks to Ko's midsection half-way through. Because of this, Makishima obviously requires less physical strength to fight effectively against his opponent. Even with that having been said, there is no indication that he lacks strength. Quote:
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2013-02-09, 04:19 | Link #130 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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2013-02-09, 04:45 | Link #131 |
Senior Member
Author
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In many ways, Kougami vs. Makishima is like another famous Gen-wrote anime feud: Kiritsugu Emiya vs. Kirei Kotomine from Fate/Zero.
Spoiler for Major Fate/Zero Spoilers:
On another thread, I wrote that Gen has a very good grasp on what's entertaining and what's not (in a "general audience" sense). Gen prizes consistent characterization, and will not sacrifice that purely for entertainment gain... but to the extent that he can have characters act in-character and in a very entertaining way, Gen will go for that. I think that Gen realizes that people tend to love pitched one-on-one combat between two closely matched and ruthlessly fierce competitors. This is especially true if there's excellent buildup to the fight, and/or if the fight has an ideological/philosophical element to it. Kougami vs. Makishima, Kiritsugu vs. Kirei, even Sayaka vs. Kyouko (from Madoka Magica) are all like this. Having two characters debate things out can certainly be interesting, and I think Gen gets intellectual appeal as well, but it was always clear to me that Gen wanted Kougami vs. Makishima to be his "next" Kiritsugu vs. Kirei. His next extensively setup climatic fight scene that would be a treat for the eyes and a stimulant to the emotions. Gen is one of a precious few anime writers today that I think gets what makes Hollywood action movies so appealing to many viewers, and has managed to incorporate that into anime narratives. If there was ever an anime equivalent to something like the Die Hard films, it would almost certainly be wrote by Gen. To be fair to Makishima, I'm sure that if Kougami had chosen to debate him on the actions he was taking (or to talk on just about anything), Makishima would have been more than happy to oblige. But in Makishima's mind, if you can't have a riveting conversation with another interesting alpha male, the next best thing is to have a riveting duel with him. As cultured, intelligent, and well-read as Makishima is, he's still very much a man. Defeating his latest (and best!) curiosity and target was no doubt thrilling to Makishima, just like an amateur wrestler would find it thrilling to defeat a strong and worthy adversary in order to win an Olympic Gold medal. After defeating Kougami, there's little doubt that Makishima felt "on top of the world". He was in an uniquely vulnerable state of mind to be taken unaware, and Akane seized the opportunity. I wouldn't weigh it too much against Makishima, though I hope we get to see more of his intellectual side before the anime is over.
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2013-02-09, 04:53 | Link #132 | ||
:cool:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 32
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Incidentally, and going back to some of the theories of the Sibyl System: My two best guesses are that the system uses either humans in some way, or is non-biological in nature. In order for the "with this we wont even have to destroy it!" line to have been used like it was, it would have to be something that has a strikingly unethical appearance. This is generally associated with systems based off of whole humans, or human brains. Probably the latter. Of course it could be something entirely different, but this is what is most likely.
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2013-02-09, 04:55 | Link #133 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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But I wouldn't characterize him as an entertainment seeker. As much as he wanted these fucked up individuals to reach a certain standard he set for them, which is obviously based on his own self worth and identity, he was perpetually learning from them and reflecting on himself. I'd say he was looking for a certain something he lacked. |
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2013-02-09, 06:33 | Link #135 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Ok ok I've finally seen the episode. Lets break down some of the discussions here.
Makishima Acting Out Of Character I have made the observation that different people have different gripes about him. Some find that his combat skills are very implausible. Others find that him getting all giddy when he gains the upper hand is out of character. Yet even others found it rather strange that he didn't "sense Akane's presence". This is, of course, the inherent problem with a character who is inherently mysterious: People start to form images in their mind of "what he's supposed to be like" based on things they feel are true or think they have seen, when in fact, the author has something completely different in mind. This is not breaking character, this is just a character that turns out different from what you'd expect. If you feel like the author is obligated to live up to each and every one of your expectations, well that's up to you really. Incidentally, my personal opinion is that his anticlimactic defeat is exactly what he deserved. Which leads me to: Akane wasn't impressive enough The argument "she had combat training" just doesn't really fly here. With the absence of other weapons that actually work, running up to the guy and hitting him over the head with the heaviest object you can find really is the most efficient course of action here. Reality is unrealistic, after all. The reason I bring that up is, well, if you were expecting something that isn't realistic, well then you are in fact, rather justified in your disappointment. You DO need to be honest about this, however. The Sibyl system is hiding a dark secret Most of us knew this would happen eventually. My opinion on the idea of a system that governs by monitoring people's mental health and determining a person's best professional path based on their personal merits remains unchanged. Responsibility for how society works also remains with society itself if you ask me. It's ok if any of you feel otherwise, I'm not really interested in debating that right now. I think I will save it for a later episode where I feel it will be more appropreate. What I do feel people should watch out for, is the implications for Makishima's actions. Just because there is a corrupt element in the Sibyl system, doesn't necessarily make Makishima the guy to root for. Makishima remains a horrible person, and his ideal world really is a horrible place to live in unless you're into murdering people. Just... Keep that in mind. Kagari died Seems clear to me. The paralyze feature was overridden. The gun's shape seems to have been forced into lethal eliminator mode. The only reason we haven't seen Kagari's head a splode is out of the author's respect for the character. The only real justified argument against his death is that some people feel his character hasn't been sufficiently explored yet. |
2013-02-09, 06:56 | Link #138 |
名前は?
Scanlator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Washington
Age: 35
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Okay, here come some omg mega spoilers about Sybil System and what Cheguson and Kagari saw..
This was inside the pit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gc96BYHUbY ... disturbing My question is: If there's no signal down there.. why does she get signal? |
2013-02-09, 07:17 | Link #140 |
名前は?
Scanlator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Washington
Age: 35
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That still doesn't make sense though. The signal is routed to the antenna at the very top of the tower. If it's "right there", then it would have functioned within the enclosed area.. However, as Cheguson points out, when they're inside it, they are shielded from the Sibyl System.
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