2010-07-16, 17:56 | Link #13983 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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I think in every Episode there are only 16 People. You only have 16 Pieces in Chess. thats why Erika pushes it to 17 when she enters.
As i said somewhere else, i do think Erika goes after common theories and this time it was shkannon. Why did she not just say that Shannon and Kanon are 1 Human? It is not her goal, it is the way to get to the goal. To beat the Game. In EP5 she tries to make Natsushi the murderer, this is possible if she gets blackmailed by the 2nd Battler or by the Kinzo's Mistress theory. In EP6 she tries to win the Game by simply leading Battler in a logical Error, she knows he will not kill off his Family and fake it that is why she has to "re-kill" them. She knows he can use Shkannon that is why she put them both in different rooms observed by others and seal them. If you think about it the game would be to easy if Battler just had asked Beatrice every 5 min "Is Body A still in Place X" that is not how you play this Game. |
2010-07-16, 19:47 | Link #13984 | ||||||
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Well, all things cleared up I can't say I like your theory. Too much complicated to my tastes. I don't disagree anymore, tough, as, for what I can understand, it don't contradict my own theories. But, sorry for the words, what is the point of that theory? For what I can understand it is more like a 'guess of how it will end' then a tool to understand what happened in Rokkenjima, right? Please, don't misunderstand me. Although I said I don't like it, I think it is a very interesting well thought theory. I wouldn't be surprised if it is what Ryuukishi is going for in the end. I just don't quite get how exactly this can used to discover the mystery. Or if it was your intention when creating the theory. Quote:
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Going by your theory, this can be one of the only actual description of the Reality we got so far. Quote:
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Also, by that theory, we have to assume there is a rule forbidding the meta characters to say too much to the detective right? How much can they reveal, then? Just what Piece!Detective could know? By 'Detective' I mean both Battler and Erika, in the respective Episodes. (I am having some problems with the forum connexion. Hope I don't end up posting it multiple times by accident) |
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2010-07-16, 20:03 | Link #13985 | |
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In other words, the Game Master is the only one capable of showing "the tale" in all its fullness, but Dlanor and Virgilia can describe what's going on on the game board if asked. I imagine that it follows what the piece-detective is capable of witnessing, if the meta-detective asks the right questions. It's a bit hard to know this though, since we can't be sure what everyone's motives are (or even who's actually controlling Dlanor).
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2010-07-16, 20:04 | Link #13986 | ||
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But.. what if it's 8 vs. 8 with no pawns? This is because we've compared Maria before to the Black King in EP1-4, since she wears a black crown and seems to be the magic observer for Beatrice. |
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2010-07-16, 20:18 | Link #13987 | ||
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2010-07-16, 20:24 | Link #13988 |
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Hmm, are you saying that the entire setup existed to frame Natsuhi in EP5, or that there were two separate plots? Personally, I think that Hideyoshi's murder in the guest room was real and the work of someone entirely different from the ones behind the first twilight. I don't think everyone would just watch Eva beat up Natsuhi unless they really suspected the latter of killing Hideyoshi. Especially Battler.
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2010-07-16, 20:24 | Link #13989 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Don't worry, he doesn't.
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2010-07-16, 20:37 | Link #13990 | ||||||
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Wel, I believe he is actually a woman now. Any public appearance 'he' have made was obviously a fake. Naturally, his actual name is somewhat related to 18^8 Quote:
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There was a discussion about it in the Ep6 thread. Quote:
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2010-07-16, 20:40 | Link #13991 | |||
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Because the Author knows so much about what's going on on Rokkenjima, she must know something of the truth which she leaves behind in the stories. You can still use what is going on in the episodes to try and discover the truth. But you can also try to track down who the author is based on the person most likely to have done this and by the truths she must know in order to have written this. Because this author cannot have just popped out of nowhere and written about the Rokkenjima Explosion Incident. Quote:
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Like for example if you have a story about some characters on the Titanic. They may be fictional, but the Titanic and the story about how it sunk (the iceberg, the splitting of the hull, the temperature of the water, etc) must reflect reality. Titanic the movie however is fictional, but the director used the fictional characters to guide us through the events. Like for example the Captain was not fictional but maybe some of his crew was. So for example in Umineko, the idea that Kinzo is dead starting of all games (episodes) must be a reflection of Rokkenjima Prime. The author(s) must know this before being able to write. There are many other things which form the 'setting' and particulars of Rokkenjima that the Author must know before she can write. Another example is the 10th Twilight Bomb leading to the Geological Event. We call this 'Core Truth' and it's similar to Red Text. If an author writes with this wrong, then people can realize that the author doesn't know the truth very easily. Like if Cameron changed the story of the Titanic so that they repaired the hull and sailed on and everyone had a happy ending. 8) Similarly, there are things which are just unknown at the time, or can't be known which allow for the Author to speculate. Who got their hands on the guns; if they did at all? Where did they run to? Did they even know a murderer was loose? Did they know about the bomb? This is similar to Blue Text. I figure there should be an analog to the Gold Text at the author level. It may have something to do with how the author can choose to make things true for their particular story but not for all stories. |
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2010-07-16, 20:45 | Link #13992 | ||
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I do think that Battler was about to reveal the farce at the very end (it's all useless). Still, if I had to guess, I'd think that he suspected Erika. Remember, Erika wasn't with the group at the time Hideyoshi's body was found. If it weren't for the detective's proclamation, she's the most suspicious person by far (except for Natsuhi). It could be that Battler wanted to keep her in the dark as long as possible. Or, it could be that he and the others really did suspect Natsuhi, as the description of the scene suggests they did.
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2010-07-16, 21:04 | Link #13993 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy (Neaples)
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I assume that if you try stab someone that is playing dead then the least you can expect is a scream or some form of resistance. It's not like it's difficult to understand that they were alive at that point.
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2010-07-16, 21:13 | Link #13994 | |||||
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...However, haven't all clues in Ep6 pointed to Shannon now? If we accept she is Beatrice, the she is probably the Beatrice who have been playing with Maria the whole time. If so, she is also the one who wrote the message bottle. Heh, look how interesting now. In Ep2, the only flashbacks are about either Shannon or Kanon. Things that just then, Jessica or George should know. Quote:
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Anyway, Battler being about to reveal about the farce at the end make sense. Too bad we never get to see Erika reaction to that. |
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2010-07-16, 21:17 | Link #13995 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Come to think of it, how does Erika know someone is alive before killing them?
Think about it. Isn't it equally impossible to prove someone is alive with 100% certainty without the detective's privilege? ...unless they woke up and started moving around first.
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2010-07-16, 21:18 | Link #13996 | |
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So, Erika and Dlanor could only "know" that those people were alive for one of two possible reasons. Either the type of story Battler chose could only have resulted in those people being alive...or the Game Master's current plan in his head is always "active" on the game board. By the second one, I mean that the Game Master can go back and change things at will as long as they don't conflict with what the detective has seen or any of the red text, but if the detective discovers a fact on the game board that the Game Master didn't want them to know, then the Game Master's temporary theory becomes a red truth, at least where that detective's observation is concerned. In other words, by making the detective piece see things, the meta-detective can peek into the Game Master's current plan. Either way, to actually say in red that they were alive would probably take someone who knows more about how the game works than Erika or even Bern.
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2010-07-16, 21:42 | Link #13998 | |
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Shannon is the one person whom I believe to be in the unique position to be involved or at least seen most if not all of the conspiracies on the island. Krauss, Kinzo, the servants, Eva's conspiracy against Krauss (from George) and whatever George and/or Hideyoshi has planned. And some of her own conspiracies as well. So she seems likely to be the one who could anticipate how these conspiracies could crash together. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. That line of reasoning IS my theory. |
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2010-07-16, 21:56 | Link #13999 | ||
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But, hey, that mean you wrote it before reading Ep6? That is pretty impressive. Quote:
Anyway, I suppose everyone has it own line of thinking. |
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2010-07-16, 22:09 | Link #14000 | |
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Also even if " It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard" why should the human side piece "lie" to herself? Also i don't think the GM can change something the player (Meta-Erika) did. So if Meta Erika commanded her piece to "certainly" kill them, it would be strange for the gm to be able to "cancel" this command. So she is then able to claim their death in red, as it was an action she performed. The fact about them being alive is a direct consequence of this. Battler could probably change the story to make them dead shortly before she killed them but he didn't even know she was doing that (and it is actually strange why he didn't notice Erika actions) |
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