2008-02-21, 17:47 | Link #1401 | |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Last edited by tripperazn; 2008-02-21 at 19:32. |
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2008-02-21, 17:48 | Link #1402 | |
ボカロ廃
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Underground
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2008-02-21, 21:12 | Link #1404 | |
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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Once you learn how hiragana is pronounced, it's all the same. It's not like English, where "e" could be pronounced as "ee" or "eh"; where "b" could be pronounced as "bee" or "buh". "せ" is always seh. It's never "see." There are intonational differences, like ame (rain) vs ame (candy) but offhand, I don't think people would need such a site. |
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2008-02-22, 06:42 | Link #1405 | |
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>nikorai
You mixed up the matter of justice with the one of economics. You could (or should) tolerate miseraeble Jean Valjean taking away something which you temporally do not need, but it does not mean that he has the right to steal. And, as for the legitimacy of translation, see my previous comment. Anyway, OK, I agree that further discussion will be in vain. We could stop now. Quote:
It's not always true. For example, "ん" is pronounced at least in three distinct ways: [n] [m] [ng], according to the following consonant. See, 簡単 [ka-n-ta-n], 半端 [ha-m-pa], 版画 [ha-ng-ga]. "す" at the end of a sentence is often pronouced [s], rather than [su]. Namely, します [si-ma-s]. And of course you know the "は" problems. Professional annoucers and voice actors (seiyu) are especially trained to speak beautiful Japanese. They must distinguish "が" in 私が from "が" in "がんばる". Therefore I recommend not to rely solely on the spelling, if you want to be fluent, though it hardly causes serious problems in daily conversation. |
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2008-02-22, 07:12 | Link #1406 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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Japanese pronounciation is probably the simplest with only 5 vowels a i u e o which is the same as Roman. There was time when we distinguished イ and ヰ エ and ヱ but those days are long gone. |
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2008-02-22, 07:34 | Link #1407 | |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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This has something to do with the 'laziness' of the mouth, simply speaking, and thus happens in a lot of languages, e.g. in German, and maybe also in English. Nevertheless, most native German speakers aren't aware of that fact because they're doing it subconsciously. They also aren't easily convinced because as soon as they concentrate on what they are saying they're automatically pronouncing things like they think it is right. It's like a watched kettle. I bet it's the same in Japan.
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2008-02-22, 08:03 | Link #1408 | |
Senior Member
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Perhaps it is close to 'n' but my textbook specifies that 'n' is pronounced as 'm' before b and p
and as 'ng (like in the words as 'sing' 'king' etc) before 'k' and 'g'. Also japanese n is different from english because it is considered a separate syllable. Quote:
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2008-02-22, 09:52 | Link #1409 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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ん is never a clear "n" but crossover between "ヌ", "ム" and "ウン" since Japanese pronounciation doesn't have a consonant only vocalization. |
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2008-02-22, 12:16 | Link #1410 |
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>Tri-ring
You misunderstand a few facts. 1. The latest version of Japanese orthograpy has no more than one century. It was promulgated soon after the WW2. The Allied Force considered the previous version (by Teika FUJIWARA, 1162-1241) was so difficult for not-highly-educated people that it had prevented the development of popular democracy in Japan. The working schedule was too tight to make a coherent and easy system of writing, thus some difficulties like "は" problems were left. 2. There is a language which has only three vowels. See: Kalaallisut language Japanese people too easily assume their language is somehow special, e.g., as the simplest / the hardest in the world. 3. Japanese language certainly has sounds which consist of "consonant without vowel", although most native speakers are unaware of the existence, as Slice of Life aptly explained. You seem to confuse real sounds with morae (mental unit of a sound as distinguished from the physical sound). |
2008-02-22, 13:02 | Link #1411 | |
ボカロ廃
Join Date: Jan 2008
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...Cause I constantly make the same mistake when doing lyric transliteration too, writing the 'wa' sound as 'ha' because of the original word. |
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2008-02-22, 16:32 | Link #1412 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kinki
Age: 37
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After about 15 hours of Japanese within the last 5 days, I don't have a problem with the pronounciation of the particles. IMHO you can cet the feeling for that pretty fast... also for the pronounciation of the Japanese "u", I tend to swallow it in most words, remaining just a exhalation of breath. futatsu -> f*hhh*tats*hhh*. Is it really true that the ability to hear the "U" is some sort of "degenerated" within the ears of the 日本人 ?
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2008-02-22, 23:35 | Link #1413 | |
hepcat
Join Date: Feb 2008
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one trick that i learned regarding japanese grammar that helped me out a lot--and that i still fall back on from time to time--is to read sentences backwards. for example: 「もちろん,世界中の人が血液型で4種類の運勢に分かれているなどということを信じているわけではないが。 」 but it is not that / i believe in things like / separating into 4 different categories / by blood type / the people of this world / of course "of course, it's not that i believe that the people throughout the world should be separated based upon their blood type." (my translation is not verbatim, obviously) it's a little sloppy, and it may seem like a bad habit to develop, but i actually find it helped me early on. i'm actually rather afraid, myself, of what it will be like if i ever try to communicate to someone in japanese, because i think of everything in dictionary terms, rather than in polite terms (i mean, for example, 「いる」 rather than 「います」). i don't know if i will be able to switch back and forth so easily between formal and informal speech. |
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2008-02-22, 23:54 | Link #1414 | |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Reading backwards is a really good strategy for literal translation. I tend to read and understand the sentence then make up a translation based on what I think best fits the Japanese meaning, not the original text. I think it improves readability, which to me matters more than faithfulness to the original. A lot of people don't agree with this method though, especially fansubbers. There was this huge argument over at the fansubbing board here about this just yesterday. Just today, there was this new Japanese scientist at my lab who looked like he needed help from me. I asked "Do you need help?", and he said "What?". I just sat there thinking, should I clarify with ”何か用?”. But that was impolite, I didn't know him. By the time I thought of ”何か用事がありますか?” I still wasn't sure that was polite enough and like 2 min had passed. Awkward moment there.
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2008-02-23, 06:56 | Link #1415 | ||
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Anyway, sticking to the phonological accuracy may be harmful for beginners. ク is [ku], that's OK. Quote:
Backward translation - that is what I was used to when I learned English (though in reverse)! But it hinders speedy reading, so I exercised to read onwards. >何か用事がありますか? Say "何かご用でしょうか?" in the next opprtunity |
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2008-02-23, 07:09 | Link #1416 |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Well, if you say that it doesn't really matter, then I'm just going to talk informally, since I can't keep up the formal form for long anyway. Because I don't use masu-kei, I get nervous when I try and make dumb mistakes. At the time, I didn't even realize that 用 and 用事 meant completely different things.
Thanks, if I need to say it later, I'll use you suggestion.
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