2010-05-30, 14:31 | Link #14181 |
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In accordance to the above conversations about his berserk form, may I raise a theory?
What if perhaps his training is not jsut to control his youki? What separates Ghoul from Vampire currently? It seems that the vampire sisters can easily control their more violent urges and not go berserk. When fighting they have a honed control of their youki, but one has to consider the nature of youki and one's youkai. Youkai, is much the equivalent to a ayashi's conscience. Often (not just RV as an example) there is an inner feeling of instinct that many youkai refer to as their inner youkai. It is a deep instinct that lures them into battle. This inner youkai is often in control of their youki and powers. What if for Tsukune to get a reign on his youki would also mean reigning in his inner youkai, it being berserk vampire Tsu? Could we perhaps say that this killer instinct will be prevented from surfacing....because he can control his emotions? As we see all the times he has gone berserk with the Holy Lock in place, the girls were in severe danger. Perhaps this was noticed and for him to control his feelings he had to learn to wield them properly. Of course the only person capable of showing him how to wield his vampiric youki was another vampire. And another vampire would clearly know the cons to being unable to control their emotions.Many vampires seem very obstinate and have a distinct control over those "unnecessary" emotions which could define why Moka often keeps those emotions deep down inside herself (Outer Moka) and why Kokoa tries to keep stoic and independent, but both seem more than anything to want to show those feelings to others outside their race. Diversion aside... control over emotion = youki control. If Moka can teach him to control his emotions, it can prove why she is so harsh with her training, to temper him to any possibility and keep him in control under the most strained conditions, and a good example to the fruits of her labour were indeed during the battle with Kanade Kamiya. If he can control his emotions that happenstance of berserk Tsu may be a thing of the past.
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2010-05-30, 16:30 | Link #14182 |
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@Ou-Rex: I like it, because it's actually very similar to the theory I raised. Tsukune needs to control his darker, more violent self, those being his emotions and his own disposition for violence if he wants to master his own vampire nature, that of his Ghoul mode.
@Chris38: I would also want to see the author create something more original, but it doesn't have to be with the way Tsukune masters his vampire powers because I'm quite certain that's what Tsukune has to deal with: conquering his own dark thoughts and emotions to master the bloodthirsty nature of his Vampire self. Rather, I hope to see the author present that theme in a much more original way that no one else has done before. Consider the fact that there hasn't been a story where a human turning into a Vampire has to train physically in order to master its use. As for the difference between an actual Vampire and a Ghoul, it's much like the difference between a bar brawler and a trained martial artist. Their physical strength and speed are exactly the same, except where one throws aimless punches out of the blue, the other's punches and throws are all purposeful, efficient and intended to strike with minimum effort to inflict the greatest amount of damange. One is disciplined, the other is uneducated and out of control. |
2010-05-31, 01:14 | Link #14183 | |
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2010-05-31, 06:40 | Link #14184 | |
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2010-05-31, 11:09 | Link #14185 |
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I agree that if Tsukune losses control, the result's are not going to be good and even if he manages to control himself, he's not going to be the same Tsukune we know, since as you said Yoko Takeo, the nature of a vampire is quite different then the one of human, and well the future does not look good for Tsukune if he losses control.
I also agree that Tsukune isn't a ordinary Ghoul (Primitive vampire), or rather he isn't even that ... since I wouldn't call the way Tsukune's transformation went ... ordinary., so his development might be different compared to how vampires evolved in the past, so we are still not sure what Tsukune currently is and what he is going to become. The only thing that we are certain about is that Tsukune's final form is quite certainly going to have some relation with vampires, but won't become a vampire, unless the author is going to pull some kind of plot wist later in the story. At least that's what I think Tsukune is going to become in the future, though we still don't everything about his current form and what kind of effect the vampire blood is having on Tsukune. I mean mental effects since, like I said before Tsukune's physical transformation is probably already finished. I just believe that the vampire instincts present inside his vampire blood might be affecting him already when Tsukune is using his vampire abilities, since while Tsukune still is in control of himself, most of the time when he changes into his vampire form, but he still acts a little differently compared to how he normally acts. I kind of got that felling, after seeing Tsukune fight as well noticing that the only times that Tsukune was at risk of turning into a Ghoul was when the vampire blood has awakened inside him and turned Tsukune to his vampire mode. So I think that the vampire instincts (killing intent, urge for blood and so on ) are already present and active inside Tsukune when he uses his power's, but thanks to the Holy Lock Tsukune is able to contro and suppress them, when his will is strong ... why else would the risk of Tsukune turning into a Ghoul (primitive vampire) only appear when Tsukune is using his power's (Rosario + Vampire, chapter 33 page 7) if it wasn't related meaning that, the elements that initiate Tsukune's degeneration into a Ghoul are already present whenever he uses his power's ... actually this might be the reason why Tsukune's training to control his youkai abilities, is also helping Tsukune in taming his berserk vampire form. Last edited by Chris38; 2010-05-31 at 11:27. |
2010-05-31, 12:27 | Link #14186 | ||||
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2010-06-01, 04:06 | Link #14187 |
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That's definitely true and something that I could definitely agree with Yoko Takeo and could explain why Inner Moka has asked Tsukune if he still doesn't want to become a youkai, before she offered Tsukune the proposition of training with her (Rosario + Vampire Season II, Chapter 15, page 40)
The only problem I have with you're theory ,Yoko Takeo is that why would Tsukune be still considered a human at this point. By you're words I'm judging that Tsukune's physical build up would be no different then a vampire at the end, meaning that he should acquire the typical vampire weaknesses as well, which would make Tsukune weaker then he currently is. Of course the explanation that could be given is that Tsukune's physical transformation hasn't went that far yet, and when Tsukune manages to use his abilities without his Holy Lock and won't loose control to the vampire blood present inside his body, Tsukune is going to go through some physical transformation that will make him resemble a vampire more ... though it seems a bit unlikely too me, since if the author had kept Tsukune's immunity to typical vampire weaknesses for so long, why would he make him suddenly loose them ? Which made me think that it might be possible that the physical changes inside Tsukune's body might not be so extensive as we thought earlier .... meaning that Tsukune's body is still mostly human and the only changes that have occurred inside it are the increase of Tsukune's physical attributes (muscle strength, speed, regeneration from wounds) as well as changing Tsukune's blood production organs, so that it produces Tsukune's own vampire blood.. It's the only reason, I could think about, that could explain why the typical vampire weaknesses aren't affecting Tsukune and I think it will always be a difference between Tsukune and the present day vampires. Well, that's true I seem to have messed up a bit and forgot that it's just a example of Tsukune growing up and becoming a better man and that the vampire blood doesn't have any effect on it at all (at least according to what we know so far) Well, I'm not too sure about it, since apart from the the chapter you mentioned as well as a brief mention in R+V season I, chapter 28, page 7, there have been nothing else mentioned about Tsukune's bloodlust, so we don't know what happened to it, I mean is Tsukune still having occasional urges for blood or has it mysteriously disappeared and isn't affecting Tsukune anymore. Currently, we simply don't know what actually happened with Tsukune's thirst for blood, so unless the author gives some hints regarding Tsukune's bloodlust I doubt we will be able to reach some sort of compromise on this particular topic. |
2010-06-01, 09:42 | Link #14189 |
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Just ignore the anime all together, and read the manga from the start. The first season was somewhat accurate with the manga, but left off enough details that your missing some good stuff. The second season was just for masturbating to...
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2010-06-01, 10:00 | Link #14191 | ||
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That, or he'll pull a Raizen and starve for 1000 years before he dies @Bombo: Ignore the anime. At all costs. |
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2010-06-01, 14:23 | Link #14192 |
Dragon King
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*raises hand* I notice by scanning through this you guys keep changing between Ghoul and Vampire. I suppose to add to the conversation, why? I hope I am not appearing to mean things rudely, but Ghoul and Vampire are very different.
Ghouls do not hold the same weaknesses as vampires have evolved over their existence. If recall from the Ghoul Data bit they are primitive vampires. Is it safe to assume Ghouls did not evolve those weaknesses yet as their mental state was so absurdly aggravated? What if to control their rampage they lessened their feedings, but because, naturally, vampires (ghouls) suffer from a type of anemia where they are unable to produce the nutrients they need found in blood. With vampires no longer feeding as much and more controlled, their symptoms became more predominate and their bodies severely weakened. (if we note chapter 26 of season II how Ura is so overly concerned with her state of health yet shes a daiyoukai) so they struggle more so than Ghouls. And we know after Tsukune "Ghoulified" he lost his vampire transformation because whenever he does "change", unlike before where he had some state of mind as a vampire, as a Ghoul he's out of control (Chapter 6, Season II). Putting my jumping of words aside, in short did Tsukune not lose his Vampire form after the final trigger and he only Ghouls now? Even the girls call him that when he berserkers. Because he is a Ghoul, and not a vampire, he does not hold the weaknesses and ALSO, to note why he doesn't remember changing and his state of mind is so lucid after because he and Ghoul are two souls in one body, as mentioned when he first transformed. Does that make sense? I have noticed that and just making conversation. To Bombo: You'll be glad you didn't, plot, do want, won't get.
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2010-06-01, 15:00 | Link #14193 |
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Tsukune is technically not a ghoul, the term ghoul is just used as a comparison in his state of being. Even R+V identified a ghoul as a corpse possessed by a malevolent spirit/demon.
Tsukune is when berserked is controlled by the primal vampiric instincts of the blood, as Moka stated that vampires by nature are a violent warlike species.
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2010-06-01, 15:25 | Link #14194 | |
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That is the best way of putting it, isn't it?
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2010-06-01, 15:58 | Link #14195 | |||
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That said, I doubt it has anything to do with Ghouls being a primitive form of Vampires, considering they were originally human. Hokuto was also a Ghoul, and there's no proof that Kyria is a mix between Vampire and another Ayashi (though I have my theory on that). Quote:
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2010-06-01, 16:13 | Link #14197 | |
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Tsukune acts the way a ghoul would if the vampire blood takes over, but he has never technically been a ghoul. |
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2010-06-01, 16:17 | Link #14198 |
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Well yes, you're right on that. I'm only referring to Tsukune in this instance for now considering there's no other way to refer to him when he's drunk on his Vampire powers. Unless you'd rather call him a pseudo-Vampire, though Ghoul is much shorter and more time-saving compared to that
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2010-06-01, 16:24 | Link #14199 |
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The vampire blood is powerful, when it takes control of him the natural instincts of primal vampires causes his berserk state. As to what to call him... well that's hard to say. He possess all the pro's of a vampire and none of the cons. The only con he has is that if the blood run rampant he'll die, but as we've seen Tsukune is learning to control it.
For now, lets just call Tsukune... Tsukune. He's a human with vampire blood, if you go by other legends it's how vampires are also made.
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2010-06-01, 16:33 | Link #14200 | |
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action, comedy, ecchi, harem, monogamy, romance, shounen, supernatural, tsumoka romance, vampire |
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