2015-03-23, 08:52 | Link #1421 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
So why is Shirobako giving its adult female characters more teenager-esque facial designs? I'm arguing that it's to appeal to moe fans. And that's still my position. I think it's good for people to talk openly and candidly about this because it's a good way to explore our thoughts on the modern anime industry, and perhaps to even learn more about it. And if you're watching a show like Shirobako... Getting bent out of shape whenever somebody drops the term "moe", even if the person who uses the term is a moe fan and not a moe critic, is not going to do any good. For good or for ill, the term "moe" is not going away. Shirobako itself explicitly references it, and IIRC, it did so multiple times. So taking the "Move along! Nothing to see here!" approach doesn't do any good, and it just leads to some people thinking that characters like Ai is the standard-bearer of moe (re: Tenzen12's posts on this thread). With that in mind, who do you think makes for a better face of moe - Ai or Miyamori Aoi? Ai is downright infantilized, playing right into negative perceptions of moe. Miyamori Aoi is an excellent well-rounded character. If more people start seeing characters like Miyamori Aoi as moe characters (and I sincerely do think she is designed to appeal to moe fans) then that can only help the wider perception of moe, which in turn will mean people will complain about it less.
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 11:07 | Link #1422 | |||
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
|
Quote:
Quote:
That's closer to the character model for Segawa-san than for Aoi. Also Hiroko is perfectly capable of taking care of herself and doesn't elicit protective feelings from the audience the same way Zuka or (ugh) Ai might. Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2015-03-23, 11:34 | Link #1423 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Wasn't Mikuru given extreme moe traits for comedic purposes? My brother thinks one of the problems with her is that she popularized moe over here, but in Japan she was more of a parody of something that was already established. He thinks she gave people over here a skewed perception of what moe is. (Someone I know online thought that characters needed to be like Mikuru to qualify as moe.)
Granted, you're using her as an example of an extreme, not the norm. |
2015-03-23, 14:31 | Link #1424 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
"Moeblob" is a disgusting term coined by people who want to trash moe. I cringe whenever I hear it. It is used when someone wants to claim that a moe character has no substance, and gives me a misogynistic feeling. Not that moe characters always do have substance: I like many moe characters, but I am not a fan of K-On, to be honest. Just doesn't work for me.
I should say that in Japanese, "moe" refers to the feeling one gets when looking at a certain type of character. In English, we use it as an adjective to describe a character. That could be the source of some misundersanding. I liked Hataraki Man a lot, but I love this show, which I think is actually more entertaining and portrays its characters better. It definitely has some moe aspects: some of its drawing; that initial set-up with the doughnuts, which was certainly reminiscent of the classic moe franchise, K-On; the super-shy young animator. And I think those aspects help sell the show to an anime audience. But they are far from being the whole show. Another difference from Hataraki Man is the emotional core of the show: this is about people working together to produce a product, and about their growing into their roles. Hataraki Man was about the disappointments of adulthood. You could almost say that this is shounen (with shoujo characters, lol), and that was josei. I love the way they meld serious and comic in this show, making serious points easy to swallow. That does lead to some lack of realism, but it works for me.
__________________
Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2015-03-23 at 14:54. |
2015-03-23, 15:15 | Link #1425 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
|
Quote:
That's actually an intriguing comparison given Triple_R's earlier post about eye shapes and the "moe look." I suspect a poll of Evangelion viewers would consider Rei "moe," but she has a character model closer to Segawa's than to Aoi's.
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 16:03 | Link #1426 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
With Nagato Yuuki, on the other hand, they took the core traits of the "Rei archetype," so to speak, in a very deliberate attempt to make her as moe as possible. In fact, I think she's ultimately more moe that Mikuru, since Mikuru was an obvious satire of the concept. In Nagato they playing it straight.
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 17:05 | Link #1427 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
You could at least do yourself a favor and read Database Animals if you're going to write several hundreds of words on a subject like this... Quote:
Quote:
You guys really need to look at industry trends, who is actually designing the characters, what the original designs (if an adaptation) may have looked like, etc. |
|||
2015-03-23, 17:25 | Link #1428 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 17:32 | Link #1429 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
|
Quote:
And no one likes to be attacked for what they like. Combine it with the fact that people often use ignorant sweeping generalizations and you'll get some angry fans |
|
2015-03-23, 17:53 | Link #1431 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Rather than trying to convince people like that "moe can be worthwhile too", why not try describing shows as what they are instead of just how they look? Like telling someone "oh, you like office dramas, you might enjoy Shirobako" rather than having to constantly go REMEMBER DUDE THIS ISN'T LIKE ONE OF THOSE OTHER MOES It means whatever's convenient for the argument in question. I've seen some people dismiss literally everything with a female cast and/or without violence, guns as a "moe anime". |
|
2015-03-23, 18:00 | Link #1432 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2015-03-23, 18:06 | Link #1433 | |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 18:08 | Link #1434 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
I am saying that trying to turn "moe" into some sort of generally-useful descriptive quality is enabling those people, as are attempts to improve the status of "moe" in their eyes by pointing to specific shows or characters (because then they can dismiss anything that isn't those, ie. "I normally don't like moeshit but Madoka is great").
|
2015-03-23, 18:16 | Link #1436 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
The term describes a feeling but is also used to indicate an aesthetic and stylistic trend.
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 18:21 | Link #1437 |
Did nothing wrong
Author
|
Holy shit. This has like nothing to do with Shirobako anymore; in fact it got mocked by the show which really shows how low this topic is on the tree of relevance; somewhere stuck in the director's tummy. I mean come on people, even when I post crap, it's still about the topic at hand.
Anyone that dismisses an anime solely based on a generalization has to be taken with a grain of salt. It doesn't matter what you do with them because they'd find some other blanket to spread nonsense. On the other hand, faulting people for pattern recognition isn't fair either-- some people have experience with a certain set of trends that generated a negative reaction, and are just sharing this line of experience. But for the most part, fewer people give a fuck than you'd imagine. So just go back and enjoy your shitty moe anime already.
__________________
|
2015-03-23, 18:26 | Link #1438 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
An off-hand comment by a side character doesn't mean it got mocked. In fact, the series took the matter quite seriously. For example when they say that Sugie can't draw moe, they mean it as a real problem. No one dismisses Sugie's inability to draw in this style as something silly.
__________________
Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2015-03-23 at 18:38. |
2015-03-23, 18:29 | Link #1439 | |
Did nothing wrong
Author
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2015-03-23, 18:38 | Link #1440 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Arguing semantics was never the intention. I believe we started this just prizing Shirobako for its somewhat unusual way to deal with the current aesthetic trends without compromising the quality of the story (say what you will but this happens a lot). If the discussion turned into an argument of semantics is because some people got defensive for no reason.
__________________
|
Tags |
p.a. works, slice of life |
|
|