2008-12-28, 20:33 | Link #1441 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 32
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2008-12-28, 20:36 | Link #1442 | |
Gregory House
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My point remains: for what it supposedly "helps" society, it is a completely harmful institution that should not be considered for any project of a sane society. I have no religion, yet I respect my peers the same way Christianity preaches. But I won't listen to the Pope to keep my behavior on check.
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2008-12-28, 21:07 | Link #1443 | |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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Last edited by Terrestrial Dream; 2008-12-28 at 21:25. |
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2008-12-28, 21:57 | Link #1446 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Oi! I see your view points to be ironically very similar to many of the "sheep" you criticize. Blanket statements, lumping broad groups of people and categories all together, over simplifications, being on the offensive way too easily, etc. Not just you, many people are like this. My message is getting convoluted, so I'll clarify: Some religious people abide to extremist ways in their thinking, and so do many anti-religious people. When you start saying religion is a "completely harmful institution that should not be considered for any project of a sane society", you are of an extremist mind set of your own. I must say, though, there is organized religion, and then there is religion. The wonderful teachings of Jesus are good aspects of the Christian religion, for example, and the crusades is a mega blunder from the organized religion aspect of the Christian religion. It seems many people in this thread direct criticism towards organized religion. I myself do not abide to a certain religion, and I can find problems with the organized religion of Christianity of today (and definitely Islam). That is how people run the organizations. The ideas and concepts professed and taught in religions is generally good, even in Christianity and Islam (although there are certain teachings from them I dislike). So I can say I think that organized religions do have downfalls, while the major world religions are very good, on the whole. I didn't think about that until now, but that may be an important distinction to be made for the thread. I still think some people can go over board with their hate for religion, though. But it is the (no pun intended) heart and soul of religions I really like. Again, there is a difference between religion and organized religion. That is why I say I greatly value spirituality, which is also something under attack by some people.
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2008-12-28, 22:09 | Link #1447 | |||
Gregory House
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With no organization there is no religion! Stop and think a little about what a religion means, what it means to share a core belief that's based on nothing at all, and attempt to keep it consistent. You can't unless there's some centralized organizational corps that keeps everything consistent, or it wouldn't be a religion at all. Heck, even if you want to get a religion approved nowadays you need to have a certain number of followers and prove that you all share a set of core beliefs--and you can't do that without an internal organization of some sort. The "unorganized religion" you speak of is merely comprised by personal irrational beliefs, and we've all got them. Some more, some less, but having irrational beliefs doesn't automatically make you more prone to be manipulated since there's no virtual authority over them but yourself. (I was simplifying a bit there. Having irrational beliefs does make you prone to be manipulated, but not on the same scale an organized irrational belief does). Quote:
Mind you, many people would consider me "extremist" in that I have some pretty strong convictions. But I don't think extremist is the word you're looking for to describe me--perhaps "someone who has an opinion instead absorbing everything and not producing any idea of his or her own" is more suit? I don't know if there's a word for that. Quote:
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-12-28 at 22:26. |
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2008-12-29, 02:26 | Link #1448 | ||||||||||||||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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More importantly, you could refrain from claiming to have arguments to look down on others' beliefs. Or, if you can't do that, at least have the decency to state your arguments so they can be defended against. Quote:
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2008-12-29, 10:28 | Link #1449 |
Aspiring Aspirer
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Seriously Just Drop it, like I said just PM war me, not quote by quote war.
Your sense of logic is failing, and you can clearly not distinguish common forum courtesy from weakness. It's the former. I haven't even brough up any evidence of sort and only expressed my opinon, if I did then you won't have anything to day, want proof? Look at The Rational Responders you can go rant your butt over there and you cna ee the evidence I have is very very hard and solid. If you're going to try hitting my argument atleast back it up with something! You've just been doing continuing taking every sentence. The argument makes it automatically "better" because it includes the rest of the point and not a single part like so; I think that religion is a bad influence on children, but it does have several positive benefits. In which you would just take out I think that religion is a bad influence on children, If you've been offended then express it objectively not like a rushing crusader troll fighting for the great overlord troll. If you want to challenge my courtesy just PM war me like I said, you've obviously didn't bother to read or do it it seems and I wonder why. Is it the habit of every crusader to spout his war for the world to hear I wonder.
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2008-12-29, 11:34 | Link #1450 |
カカシ
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Religious debate has even diffused into the Naruto forum*. Or have Narutards simply replaced religion with Narutism? Heck, Naruto would say believe it!
*Don't click you don't want to be spoiled. If you're up to date with the manga or just don't care, read from post 170 onwards. |
2008-12-29, 11:53 | Link #1451 |
Aspiring Aspirer
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The way of the ninja shall guide you
Naruto always made me laugh, cause when they see someone sneaking they punch him in the face and say "That is not the way of the ninja!" Always made me burst out in irony XD. But the manga is alright. I still hold OP over it all though. @Wandering I remember someone saying this before, but I gotta look at his videos again; The golden rule isn't a new new concept, it's been there forever, but it wasn't until you added all the miracles and magic that people began remotely understanding it, and even then they don't do it. It's a good rule, but of course common sense isn't all that common.
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2008-12-29, 12:41 | Link #1452 | |
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2008-12-29, 12:58 | Link #1453 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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I'll only observe at this point that "religion" does not equal "spirituality" nor is "religion" strictly a term for an organization. A "religion" is a set of beliefs that may or may not be attached to an organization, set of groups, or bureaucracy.
Often, the complaints anyone has about "religion" are actually about the institutions that people create in response to a set of beliefs and the doctrines created by those institutions.
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2008-12-29, 13:12 | Link #1454 | |
Gregory House
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A religion implies that there's some sort of agreement of consistency between all the followers. There needs to be a centralized organization for that.
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2008-12-29, 13:17 | Link #1455 | |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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Even though I am not Christian many Christians' motivation do good seems to be not a way to avoid punishment but they are doing work of God and carrying out his will to do good in the world. Their action is not done out of fear (though I suppose fear of going to hell and other punishment is still on of the factor) instead their strong belief that their work is just. And lets be honest those eternal damnation are a punishment. Its similar to law there has to be a punishment in order make people follow those laws. Seriously without punishment is there a reason to obey the law?
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2008-12-29, 13:20 | Link #1456 | |
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Organising is when things get bad. How's a group of people supposed to determine the will of god? |
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2008-12-29, 13:22 | Link #1457 | |
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2008-12-29, 13:24 | Link #1458 | |
Aspiring Aspirer
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Say if you committed crime X to person Y, Y shoots you and you die. While person Z may simply slap your face and demand repayment. And let's not forget about vendettas. Legal punishments are often less severe than those that the victim can think and wish to do. In the past if you did ill to a high official they would all your friends and family but leave you to suffer like that, even for a petty crime. The law in a way protects the criminal more than anything, but we've civilized more than that, we don't all act like we're in a feudal time period now and now so the law protects the average citizen more than anything. Humans and anything with enough intelligence to sense pain/resistance will try to avoid it, self preservation is important after all. So threatening them with a hellish doom that happens AFTER they die is a good way to keep people in line, though that worked so much better when it was unquestioned.
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2008-12-29, 14:00 | Link #1459 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Hmmm, it may be that *I* should stop using the word "religion" to describe anything outside of those large organized institutional hierarchies that annoy so many spiritual people and humanists
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2008-12-29, 14:16 | Link #1460 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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And even if the religions would require structure ( some don't have much of a structure, for what I readed the sunni don't have really a clergy) that could not distinguish them from the sects.
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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