Bakemonogatari generic discussion

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I love the animation style and I think some of it works very well with the material (the text flashes annoy me though — they're unnecessarily pretentious). ...

That said, I'm not really sure I'd call it "avant garde". That's what I initially thought, too, since this is actually the first time I've watched a Shinbo production. Having now watched a few episodes of Zetsubo Sensei, I can't say his style is exactly "original", or well-liked even.

Aye... I'm just about sick of what I call "Shinbo effects" at this point (he's been using pretty much the same effects for several years in increasing doses), so I'm watching the series in spite of his delight in them. He used to use them sparingly (e.g. Tsukuyomi Moon Phase) to brilliant effect - but in each series since then they've increased to the point where they dominate the episode (e.g. SZS, and this series). I just sense more ego than innovation at the moment. (TMP, PPD, Negima!?, Hidamari Sketch, and more unless you start getting the idea - watch in them in order of release and you'll see the effects begin to overshadow the source material).

Fortunately, rather like SZS - I sense the core material is shining through regardless of his antics.

When the season started, I had marked this series as a 3rd tier "check it out if other series fell off my plate"... rather sorry I didn't kick other stuff off faster. I agree that this is as interesting in the verbal dialog department (if not more) than Ookami to Koushinryou. The two primary characters make a wonderful pair (got to learn to spell the character names).

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Vexx

When the season started, I had marked this series as a 3rd tier "check it out if other series fell off my plate"... rather sorry I didn't kick other stuff off faster. I agree that this is as interesting in the verbal dialog department (if not more) than Ookami to Koushinryou. The two primary characters make a wonderful pair (got to learn to spell the character names).

The pleasure is all the greater for me because I've been backing the dark horse of the season since its very first episode, and I've won, BIG TIME.

[sirn]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I love the animation style and I think some of it works very well with the material (the text flashes annoy me though — they're unnecessarily pretentious). I think either sirn or ickem had also linked an interview that explained why the artists decided to incorporate pictures of real people with the animation: They wanted to heighten the surreality of the scenes.

That said, I'm not really sure I'd call it "avant garde". That's what I initially thought, too, since this is actually the first time I've watched a Shinbo production. Having now watched a few episodes of Zetsubo Sensei, I can't say his style is exactly "original", or well-liked even.

Most of text flashes, real pictures and symbolism in this series are more of Oishi Tatsuya's style than Shinbo's. I love Oishi's work when he's able to keep his style and visual balanced, like in the first episode of Hidamari Sketch x365. (Shinbo's style is extremely prominent in episode 12, in comparison.)

I'm not that much annoyed by the text flashes (except in the latest episode) because most of time it serves its purpose well, but symbolism and real pictures insertion annoyed me. If Oishi want to heighten the surreality of those scenes, he should challenge himself by doing it with actual animation. Flashback part of ef episode 8 is a good example.

For the latest episode, I've heard a rumor that they "finished" the work on broadcast day, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all text insertion between the battle scene will be replaced in BD release. I thought it was strange to see them using a full frame text insertion instead of the usual cinemascope frame.

Though, even with all the gripes I had for the anime series, I will still buy all BDs and patiently wait for sequels that make me think "I'm so glad this series is made by Shaft! Now, if they could only remake Bakemonogatari..."

[Narona]

Well.........

I am a little late to the party since I just returned from vacation, but this show is a gem so far I watched all the episodes in two days

Hitagi feels so different from the "usual female protagonist"!

I also love the Voice acting

My only grip is about the pictures from real life that they sometimes include in the anime. It feels really weird. (same complain as Daniel's )

Thank to Daniel.E who advised me to watch this series


Edit: forgot to talk about the epic Ending song

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by sirn

I'm not that much annoyed by the text flashes (except in the latest episode) because most of time it serves its purpose well, but symbolism and real pictures insertion annoyed me. If Oishi want to heighten the surreality of those scenes, he should challenge himself by doing it with actual animation.

The point is taken and, certainly, I can understand some of the frustrations over the technique. If you're going to animate something, what's the point of including "real" photography? You might as well not create anime.

But I don't see it from the same perspective, that's all. I've raised the example of Dave McKean's photoshopped art, used in conjunction with the traditional comic art of The Sandman, to point out how the juxtaposition of two jarring art styles can serve to create a sense of unease. It's the same here with Bakemonogatari, I feel.

It has the effect of focusing our attentions on the main characters. It's usually incidental or side characters — nameless individuals — who are portrayed in real-life photography. This serves as a visual contrast, to emphasise how far apart from the "real world" the main characters are.

Even in those few instances when the main characters are portrayed in real photography, it's usually because someone is recounting events from his or her own perspective (for example, the way Kanbaru imagines Senjougahara, all covered in staples).

So, as a cinematographic technique, I think it works very well, given the surreality of the source material.

As for my annoyance with the text flashes, I can't help but find them pretentious because if they're meant to be read, then they're being flashed far too fast for anyone to do so. As it turns out, they usually contain only trivial information, because most of what is written will eventually transpire in animation. In which case, why bother with the text flashes, other than to appear "clever"?

[sirn]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

But I don't see it from the same perspective, that's all. I've raised the example of Dave McKean's photoshopped art, used in conjunction with the traditional comic art of The Sandman, to point out how the juxtaposition of two jarring art styles can serve to create a sense of unease. It's the same here with Bakemonogatari, I feel.

It has the effect of focusing our attentions on the main characters. It's usually incidental or side characters — nameless individuals — who are portrayed in real-life photography. This serves as a visual contrast, to emphasise how far apart from the "real world" the main characters are.

I can't see how the sense of unease couldn't be recreated using only anime visuals. In fact, they already did that with the use of strong color/white contrast between background and objects. It also help builds up the "unreal" atmosphere pretty well.

The part about being far apart from the real world doesn't bothers me that much, it even creates a nice effect when Araragi go back to the real world at the end of each chapter after his sisters wakes him up, but I don't like the way they portray side characters as symbol instead of characters.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

As for my annoyance with the text flashes, I can't help but find them pretentious because if they're meant to be read, then they're being flashed far too fast for anyone to do so. As it turns out, they usually contain only trivial information, because most of what is written will eventually transpire in animation. In which case, why bother with the text flashes, other than to appear "clever"?

That's exactly why I think it works. It maybe trivial, but it served as an additional hint for the viewers in that certain point of the story. The story of young man in episode 2, for example, gives a context on why Hitagi becomes so offensive by being weightless.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

As for the future, seeing Shinbo's latest trend of making several different seasons with his anime (SZS, Natsume, Hidamari Sketch, Natsu no Arashi, probably Maria Holic), I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a "Zoku Bakemonogatari" or whatever anytime soon.

Yep, SHAFT are one of the most sequel friendly studios around and considering that Bakemonogatari is shaping up to be their biggest hit than sequels are a no brainer, especially considering that there is ample light novels left to animate.

Natsume is Brains Base btw

[solomon]

Actually, I like the so called Shinbou craziness. I found this first ep much more accesible than his SoulTaker ep (that was over whealming). But beyond that, I have only seen this and Sensei by him (plus a couple of his eps he directed for YuYu if that counts) so the style doesn't bother me.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

That said, I'm not really sure I'd call it "avant garde". That's what I initially thought, too, since this is actually the first time I've watched a Shinbo production. Having now watched a few episodes of Zetsubo Sensei, I can't say his style is exactly "original", or well-liked even.

I think Shinbo's trademark overly (and overtly) stylized cinematography certainly fits the bill of 'avant garde', whether you think it's well done or over done. IMHO I think the style can easily cross the line into unwatchable, but with this source material I think he's found a great fit. I ended up being unable to stand Maria+Holic, but I think Hidamari Sketch worked great (and being about art school was an even better fit for an self-consciously artsy style).

'Original' is tough to find in cinema, but Shinbo seems fairly 'unique' in pulling this off consistently in Anime.

I still wonder how much more legible the text flashes would be if they were properly typeset in equivalent font in English. :-)

[Magin]

Just a quick question, if someone could remind me...

is Kizumonogatari(sp) going to be animated at some point, or is just the flash-forward all we're going to see of that story?

[Xacual]

So far we don't know one way or the other. I think we all hope for it be animated as part of a second season or OVA or something.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Narona

My only grip is about the pictures from real life that they sometimes include in the anime. It feels really weird. (same complain as Daniel's )

The fact that the latest episode saw a reduction of this makes me hopeful about future episodes following this pattern.

Right now, I am just dying to see Tsubasa-Cat and seeing it without Shaft being Shaft moments would be a blessing indeed!

Originally Posted by Narona

Edit: forgot to talk about the epic Ending song

I love that song as well. As a matter of fact, I also like the animation that goes along with it. Now THAT is what I would prefer for them to use instead of the real life images.

[Sch@dows]

Originally Posted by Magin

Just a quick question, if someone could remind me...

is Kizumonogatari(sp) going to be animated at some point, or is just the flash-forward all we're going to see of that story?

It hasn't been annonced yet, but the 15 episodes format seems odd considéring what's left to be animated.

All we know about the airing is there :
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...3&postcount=17

[pseudonhym]

Ahh I can't wait for tsubasa cat arc to air

[Lummie]

I've been thinking if the author might decide on a sequel on bakemonogatari (aside of those upcoming side stories). I've heard that lately his other work "Medaka Box" might get cancelled duo bad reception and this might be a reason to continue with bakemonogatari because the novels are selling good.

A timeshift of a few years later in the future with Araragi and Hitage in College might be something nice for a sequel. But those are my thoughts XD.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Lummie

I've been thinking if the author might decide on a sequel on bakemonogatari (aside of those upcoming side stories). I've heard that lately his other work "Medaka Box" might get cancelled duo bad reception and this might be a reason to continue with bakemonogatari because the novels are selling good.

A timeshift of a few years later in the future with Araragi and Hitage in College might be something nice for a sequel. But those are my thoughts XD.

Aren't there already some upcoming sequels planned? Along with the already released Kizumonogatari and Nisemonogatari.

EDIT: Just checked, "Kabukimonogatari" and "Nekomonogatari."

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Aren't there already some upcoming sequels planned? Along with the already released Kizumonogatari and Nisemonogatari.

EDIT: Just checked, "Kabukimonogatari" and "Nekomonogatari."

Two more books Kabukimonogatari (傾物語?, "Slope Story") and Nekomonogatari (猫物語?, "Cat Story") are planned to released in 2010 and will contain Mayoi Jiang Shi (まよいキョンシー?) and Tsubasa Family (つばさファミリー?) respectively.

Yes your right but aren't these just side stories?

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Yes your right but aren't these just side stories?

Eh, I guess we won't know until they come out...

[Xacual]

I thought he had already basically finished off the actual story with Nisemonogatari 1 / 2? I don't know from reading the spoilers in the novel thread it sounds like a pretty good conclusion to me.

[brocko]

If there's an already solid ending to the series, then it might just be for the best to leave it as it is imo. I really don't want to see this series falling into the common pit trap of beating a dead horse or degenerative dragging.