Character Discussion - Kallen

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

LOL, then REGENERATION is incestous (as ever)...


Poor Kallen-tan...



She said "Lelouch-tachi" so I suppose "yes".

what does Lelouch-tachi indicate?

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

what does Lelouch-tachi indicate?

Lelouch and co.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Baixinho

Naaah...

Look at his face in the moment you're talking about :
So yes, we don't have the same definition of emotionless

If we're going by what you think, yes, and i never said this is not a possibility, but for me it could fit also the last scene. He stayed silent and didn't say the truth to nunnaly. He threw is heart away (he loved his sister. For now, he only said aishiteru to nunnaly in the show) to make a miracle come true. And the tear of nunnaly are really painful in this scene. Kallen didn't really "cry" in the scene in 22. Not tears like nunnaly for example.

Originally Posted by blottyparchment

沈黙主張する顔
A face showing nothing

情熱隠したままで
Concealing passion/enthusiasm/zeal

押さえつけられて生きるのか
Living weighted down

奇跡手に入れるには　時に心捨てる
Throwing my heart away in obtaining this miracle

君の涙つらいけど
Though your tears are painful

I'm no expert in translating jap, but the first line of Lelouch's char song is literally and more accurately saying 'a face claiming/insisting silence/reticence'. 'A face showing nothing' works too, I guess. If I remember correctly, the word used for silence in the lyrics is not the type of silence = hiding things/lying but simply a refusal to communicate. If we go by that, isn't that exactly what he did with Kallen?

But if one were to argue that the song addresses Kallen, the second line works better, which talks of hidden passion. Trying so hard to keep something in check, eh Lelouch?

But then again, it's hard to believe that Lelouch could really be dedicating the song to anyone other than Nunnally, right? So, I think this is just another one of those ambiguities. It can be a song addressing Nunnally, Kallen, or some other person. People can interpret things however they want to.

Thanks for the infos ^^

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by Narona

If we're going by what you think, yes, and i never said this is not a possibility, but for me it could fit also the last scene. He stayed silent and didn't say the truth to nunnaly. He threw is heart away (he loved his sister. For now, he only said aishiteru to nunnaly in the show) to make a miracle come true. And the tear of nunnaly are really painful in this scene. Kallen didn't really "cry" in the scene in 22. Not tears like nunnaly for example.


Thanks for the infos ^^

Well, yeah Kallen didn't cry in ep 22, but she did in ep 25. Granted though that she cried in a more silent way than Nunally.

But while I agree that the tears part can be about Nunally, the "showing nothing" or "claiming/insisting silence/reticence" (thanks blotty) and "concealed passion/enthusiasm/zeal" makes much more sense in regards to the after-kiss scene than in regards to Nunally, don't you agree?

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Baixinho

Well, yeah Kallen didn't cry in ep 22, but she did in ep 25. Granted though that she cried in a more silent way than Nunally.

But while I agree that the tears part can be about Nunally, the "showing nothing" or "claiming/insisting silence/reticence" (thanks blotty) and "concealed passion/enthusiasm/zeal" makes much more sense in regards to the after-kiss scene than in regards to Nunally, don't you agree?

As some persons said it, I don't think that the songs talk only about one person or one scene in particular (and I am not sure that it can be considered as Canon or really that accurate, but whatever).

As koshimizu said to me about lelouch. He hides his care and love to everyone, including C.C..

I quote her

C.C.: (Getting off Lancelot Frontier) You worry about me?
Lelouch: Yeah, because you're an important battle unit.
C.C.: Haha, sure. *feels touched*

Lelouch hides his care,

So each line could make a reference to a person or many


沈黙主張する顔
A face showing nothing (could be kallen. Nunnaly too IMO but most people will agree with you)

情熱隠したままで
Concealing passion/enthusiasm/zeal (could be towards kallen, but also at least C.C. imo)

押さえつけられて生きるのか
Living weighted down (himself towards maybe suzaku and some other people)

奇跡手に入れるには　時に心捨てる
Throwing my heart away in obtaining this miracle (miracle = what ZR created. His heart = his love towards kallen or C.C. or nunnaly or even suzaku and the world)

君の涙つらいけど
Though your tears are painful (Really I think it's the tears of nunnaly in the end. If I think about tears, that's the scene I recall immediately because she cried a lot and with all her heart)

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Baixinho

Well, yeah Kallen didn't cry in ep 22, but she did in ep 25. Granted though that she cried in a more silent way than Nunally.

これは私の大失態！OTL, ORZ....



Now I take everything back.
It IS a siscon song mirroring Final turn.

Sorry, awful blunder.

[scarlet512]

Although a Kalulu advocate as well, I think his love is beyond romantic love - beyond his feelings for Kallen or CC or even Suzaku - it is for the world. It is for the one dream that everyone can live in harmony. It is Lelouch's selfless love for the world that he sacrificed himself as a symbol of hate.

That being said, I am still hoping for an OVA that will tie up some loose ends

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by scarlet512

Although a Kalulu advocate as well, I think his love is beyond romantic love - beyond his feelings for Kallen or CC or even Suzaku - it is for the world. It is for the one dream that everyone can live in harmony. It is Lelouch's selfless love for the world that he sacrificed himself as a symbol of hate.

That being said, I am still hoping for an OVA that will tie up some loose ends

Sigh selfless love thing...
I don't know how to put this in english
Regarding One More Chance
“对哪个博爱的男人需要抒发如此夸张的感情◎￥＃％※”

[crimmy88]

What makes me think that the song is more about Kallen than anyone was the fact that it was released the week before ep 22 aired.

gah, how i wish they had another confrontation or atleast a closure beit CluClu or Kalulu.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

i always wonder if Kallen didn't came in like that in the fortress, would C.C and Lelouch kiss? seeing the way things happen and how it ended, i believe that Lelouch didnt love Kallen romantically wise but care for her and wanted to bring her wishes come true.

As far as a kiss between C.C. and Lelouch goes, like Kallen's gum line, that would have made the ending too unambiguous, which is apparently what they were going for. There is certainly plenty of evidence that he loved C.C. in a romantic sense, but there is plenty that goes the other way as well. His character song (depending on how it's interpreted, but it comes out suspiciously close to 22, just like Kallen's came out right after the series and clearly refers to her feelings towards Lelouch), the kiss in 22 that he seemed really into for a moment, the fact that her kiss was one of the images he paused on when remembering his life.

I believe that if the gum line had been said, we would have gotten confirmation one way or the other, but again, that would have made it certain which of the two he was 'in love' with, so again, unambiguous. (Still, pisses me off to no end that they dropped it though. They could have at least let Kallen say goodbye after she understood what he was doing--no her 'talking' to him at the end doesn't count.)

I'm about 50/50 on whether Lelouch is alive or dead, mostly due to the fact that C.C. could be talking to the driver at the end AND Kallen's song refers to catching up w/ him someday and crying into his chest (although that could reference meeting him in the here after). At any rate, I still have hope for a picture drama or something on the last DVD where she gets a letter from him or something, then she can say her gum line. (Or they could do the alternate ending/multiple ending thing.)

Originally Posted by crimmy88

What makes me think that the song is more about Kallen than anyone was the fact that it was released the week before ep 22 aired.

gah, how i wish they had another confrontation or atleast a closure beit CluClu or Kalulu.

Well, like I was saying above, I think they delibrately left CluClu or Kalulu open for the the fans to decide, and ended up pissing off both camps. I'm okay w/ it though. Sometimes it's nice being able to take over a story at the end.

[Inferno Phoenyx]

Originally Posted by youngde

As far as a kiss between C.C. and Lelouch goes, like Kallen's gum line, that would have made the ending too unambiguous, which is apparently what they were going for. There is certainly plenty of evidence that he loved C.C. in a romantic sense, but there is plenty that goes the other way as well. His character song (depending on how it's interpreted, but it comes out suspiciously close to 22, just like Kallen's came out right after the series and clearly refers to her feelings towards Lelouch), the kiss in 22 that he seemed really into for a moment, the fact that her kiss was one of the images he paused on when remembering his life.

I believe that if the gum line had been said, we would have gotten confirmation one way or the other, but again, that would have made it certain which of the two he was 'in love' with, so again, unambiguous. (Still, pisses me off to no end that they dropped it though. They could have at least let Kallen say goodbye after she understood what he was doing--no her 'talking' to him at the end doesn't count.)

I'm about 50/50 on whether Lelouch is alive or dead, mostly due to the fact that C.C. could be talking to the driver at the end AND Kallen's song refers to catching up w/ him someday and crying into his chest (although that could reference meeting him in the here after). At any rate, I still have hope for a picture drama or something on the last DVD where she gets a letter from him or something, then she can say her gum line. (Or they could do the alternate ending/multiple ending thing.)



Well, like I was saying above, I think they delibrately left CluClu or Kalulu open for the the fans to decide, and ended up pissing off both camps. I'm okay w/ it though. Sometimes it's nice being able to take over a story at the end.

Wow. This is the explanation I've been waiting for all of yesterday and today!
Basically I'm 50/50 also with Lelouch being alive. There's a lot of proof out there, but I just wish there's was an interview, OVA, movie, etc. for real confirmation.

Ahh! Ambiguous endings! I wanted Kallen's gumline so badly. We've been waiting for it all season just for it to get cut.

[pingva]

25 episode of season one:
-Lelouch almost dies by Suzaku hands and that's how he shows Lelouch - Zero secret to Kallen.
-Kallen says her last words to Lelouch. They means why?
-Nunnally is near, but she isn't able to talk to Lelouch.
-Kallen doesn't save Lelouch and leaves him to Suzaku.
-The conclusion is said by C.C.(the main idea of the anime)

25 epiosde of season two:
-Lelouch almost dies by Suzaku hands and that's how Kallen is able to understand what Lelouch and Suzaku are doing.
-Kallen says her last words to Lelouch. This part doesn't happen. But I think her gum line is in fact her last words to Lelouch:"If you say something like "I love("aishiteru") you Nunnally", I won't forgive you."( These words means the same thing as in 25 episode is season two:"Why are you doing this? For Nunnaly?")
-Nunnally is near, but she is able to talk to Lelouch. In season one 25 episode she isn't able to talk to Lelouch. Instead of her last words in season one 25 episode we have Kallen words to Lelouch.
-Kallen doesn't save Lelouch and leaves him to Suzaku.
-The conclusion is said by C.C.(the main idea of the anime)

[youngde]

Originally Posted by pingva

25 episode of season one:
-Lelouch almost dies by Suzaku hands and that's how he shows Lelouch - Zero secret to Kallen.
-Kallen says her last words to Lelouch. They means why?
-Nunnally is near, but she isn't able to talk to Lelouch.
-Kallen doesn't save Lelouch and leaves him to Suzaku.
-The conclusion is said by C.C.(the main idea of the anime)

25 epiosde of season two:
-Lelouch almost dies by Suzaku hands and that's how Kallen is able to understand what Lelouch and Suzaku are doing.
-Kallen says her last words to Lelouch. This part doesn't happen. But I think her gum line is in fact her last words to Lelouch:"If you say something like "I love("aishiteru") you Nunnally", I won't forgive you."( These words means the same thing as in 25 episode is season two:"Why are you doing this? For Nunnaly?")
-Nunnally is near, but she is able to talk to Lelouch. In season one 25 episode she isn't able to talk to Lelouch. Instead of her last words in season one 25 episode we have Kallen words to Lelouch.
-Kallen doesn't save Lelouch and leaves him to Suzaku.
-The conclusion is said by C.C.(the main idea of the anime)

Is this just to point out parallels between the two episodes and the relationship of Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C., Kallen and Nunnally?

1) I'm not sure if Kallen's last words to him in season 1 meant 'why?' I think she was more in shock that the man she admired/loved most was one of her best (albeit adversarial) friends, both of whom had (apparently) betrayed her. This is somewhat echoed in the series finale where 'when the masks come off' she realizes that Lelouch/Zero, who she was finally able to see as a single whole, did NOT betray her.

2) I don't get why she wouldn't forgive him if he was said 'I love you' to Nunnally or that he did this for Nunnally. I'm pretty sure that as the 'mask fell off,' the 'live on' line became clear and she realized that she did it for everyone, including herself. So I still think the line would have been in reference to herself, because it's actually the guilt she feels towards herself for her own role in this that she wouldn't be able to forgive.

3) It would be perhaps be better to say she COULDN'T save Lelouch in the series finale. She certainly was screaming alot, but she was tied to a pole.

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by youngde

2) I don't get why she wouldn't forgive him if he was said 'I love you' to Nunnally or that he did this for Nunnally. I'm pretty sure that as the 'mask fell off,' the 'live on' line became clear and she realized that she did it for everyone, including herself. So I still think the line would have been in reference to herself, because it's actually the guilt she feels towards herself for her own role in this that she wouldn't be able to forgive.

Unless there is no one around, I suppose the listerner would take it personally when hearing her uttering the line.
"Yurusanai"=>"Jibun ni wa yurusanai" would fit.


Ah since they deliberately left the ending ambiguous, I don't want to place my hopes on side materials etc.
Sigh, fandom rules.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by youngde

Is this just to point out parallels between the two episodes and the relationship of Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C., Kallen and Nunnally?

1) I'm not sure if Kallen's last words to him in season 1 meant 'why?' I think she was more in shock that the man she admired/loved most was one of her best (albeit adversarial) friends, both of whom had (apparently) betrayed her. This is somewhat echoed in the series finale where 'when the masks come off' she realizes that Lelouch/Zero, who she was finally able to see as a single whole, did NOT betray her.

2) I don't get why she wouldn't forgive him if he was said 'I love you' to Nunnally or that he did this for Nunnally. I'm pretty sure that as the 'mask fell off,' the 'live on' line became clear and she realized that she did it for everyone, including herself. So I still think the line would have been in reference to herself, because it's actually the guilt she feels towards herself for her own role in this that she wouldn't be able to forgive.

3) It would be perhaps be better to say she COULDN'T save Lelouch in the series finale. She certainly was screaming alot, but she was tied to a pole.

I love you to Nunnally or that he did this for Nunnally.-It's simple who will believe that such a monster doing it for the mankind. Normal human being will not think aboot him as a good person. And Kallen knows that Lelouch started everything for Nunnally, but look how he acts(like amonster). She will think that he is lieing. Did you noticed that she understood what Lelouch and Suzaku is doing only the last minute?
In other words Kallen's gum line was change with Nunnally's last words to Lelouch. Nunnaly is Lelouch's life(everything). I think they have chosen right.
Nunnaly is Lelouch's the most beloved person. Lelouch is Nunnally's the most beloved person. Lelouch deserves a least when he is dieing to see, to be with his reason of life.

[dec4rhapsody]

Okay, possible scenario, Nunnally crying over almost dead Lelouche, Lelouche about to say sth...

Kallen, who is some good metres away and fastened to sth

"If you say you love her I won't forgive you"


Glad that they killed off her gumline.

[Vito]

Originally Posted by pingva

In other words Kallen's gum line was change with Nunnally's last words to Lelouch. Nunnaly is Lelouch's life(everything). I think they have chosen right.

Hi, can you please tell me where was this production note / director's commentary, you seem to have an insight into the creator's minds that us here seem to lack. Personally I'm going to wait for someone from the creator's staff to let us know and not just pull wild speculations out of my ass.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by pingva

I love you to Nunnally or that he did this for Nunnally.-It's simple who will believe that such a monster doing it for the mankind. Normal human being will not think aboot him as a good person. And Kallen knows that Lelouch started everything for Nunnally, but look how he acts(like amonster). She will think that he is lieing. Did you noticed that she understood what Lelouch and Suzaku is doing only the last minute?
In other words Kallen's gum line was change with Nunnally's last words to Lelouch. Nunnaly is Lelouch's life(everything). I think they have chosen right.
Nunnaly is Lelouch's the most beloved person. Lelouch is Nunnally's the most beloved person. Lelouch deserves a least when he is dieing to see, to be with his reason of life.

I give up. No matter how many times I explain to you the Japanese and why it is incredibly unlikely to work this way, you just seemingly ignore it and continue.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by Vito

Hi, can you please tell me where was this production note / director's commentary, you seem to have an insight into the creator's minds that us here seem to lack. Personally I'm going to wait for someone from the creator's staff to let us know and not just pull wild speculations out of my ass.

Don't be angry. I know almost every Kallen's fan thinks everything in code geass about Kallen is only romance. Code geass never was about romance. And when you able to put aside that, you see can more.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by Tael

I give up. No matter how many times I explain to you the Japanese and why it is incredibly unlikely to work this way, you just seemingly ignore it and continue.

I suggest you to look code geass 25 epidode and you will hear "aishiteru Nannally".