Valvrave the Liberator - Spoilers & Speculation based on Previews, Website etc.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Maybe he wants them alive for ulterior motives or he actually has an attachment to them? I doubt the latter though.

Magius Cain is an interesting conundrum. These were some thoughts and questions I had about Cain that I had posted earlier:


I was wondering, do you think if L-elf had ever known the real Cain, he would have liked him more?

I’m not sure about X-1 and H-9, but I think this Magius that took over Cain’s body (I’ll call him just Cain from now on since he’s the only Cain we as the audience really knows) is the one who trained L-elf and A-drei and Q-vier. I mean, Cain became a Magius ten years ago, and we know that up until the age of 6, L-elf was in a concentration camp. He’s only 17, so if he ever met the real Cain, it was only for a year, so for the most part, L-elf has known, worked with, and been trained by Magius Cain. And I’m betting the same goes for A-drei and especially Q-vier, who probably have never met the real Cain.

Interestingly Cain and Real Cain seem to have opposite views on things as far as I can see, but they are similar in others. Both seem to care about their perspective peoples with Magius Cain wanting to save his clan and caring of Prue having to fight despite what it is alluded to that he's been through, and Real Cain caring about his two young boy subordinates enough to go out and save their lives. However, Real Cain seems to be all about self-sufficiency and always having the greatest strength and preparation in any situation, many of these are Dorssian key principles. Magius Cain seems to advocate friendship, loyalty, and camaraderie and watching each other's backs. He's mentioned friendship about three or four times now in key scenes and approves of his team forming relationships with each other and others. He admires teamwork.

Both Cains seem to have their flaws, but both have pretty good attributes too.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Magius Cain is an interesting conundrum. These were some thoughts and questions I had about Cain that I had posted earlier:


I was wondering, do you think if L-elf had ever known the real Cain, he would have liked him more?

I’m not sure about X-1 and H-9, but I think this Magius that took over Cain’s body (I’ll call him just Cain from now on since he’s the only Cain we as the audience really knows) is the one who trained L-elf and A-drei and Q-vier. I mean, Cain became a Magius ten years ago, and we know that up until the age of 6, L-elf was in a concentration camp. He’s only 17, so if he ever met the real Cain, it was only for a year, so for the most part, L-elf has known, worked with, and been trained by Magius Cain. And I’m betting the same goes for A-drei and especially Q-vier, who probably have never met the real Cain.

Interestingly Cain and Real Cain seem to have opposite views on things as far as I can see, but they are similar in others. Both seem to care about their perspective peoples with Magius Cain wanting to save his clan and caring of Prue having to fight despite what it is alluded to that he's been through, and Real Cain caring about his two young boy subordinates enough to go out and save their lives. However, Real Cain seems to be all about self-sufficiency and always having the greatest strength and preparation in any situation, many of these are Dorssian key principles. Magius Cain seems to advocate friendship, loyalty, and camaraderie and watching each other's backs. He's mentioned friendship about three or four times now in key scenes and approves of his team forming relationships with each other and others. He admires teamwork.

Both Cains seem to have their flaws, but both have pretty good attributes too.

Magius Cain kinda reminds me of Kiritsugu Emiya(Fate series) for his "softness" towards his comrades(Magius/Prue) & coldness towards anyone that is an outsider.

Real Cain, does care about his friends, but he detests weakness. He made the statement that went something like "become strong so you can cover your & your friend's backs." While Magius Cain advocates "trust in your friends" & "You are not alone."

While both views are different, they are somewhat similar with the common interest being "protecting your friends." I wonder if some traits of the real Cain's personality have mixed with Magius Cain's personality.

L-Elf may have in all likely-hood got along with Real Cain. They both have similar views & that view is "look out for yourself." Magius Cain's wavelength is different from L-Elf & that's where they are probably at odds.

[KleenexGhost]

It's possible. He may subconsciously be taking on some of the views along with the Runes he got from the original Cain. Who knows, this "Cain" may have known and been friends with the original Cain

[DevilHighDxD]

Prepare for L-elf's heroic BSOD next episode as he is going to lose the most important people in his life. God damn L-elf, he only be part of New JIOR just so he can used the country to protect Lise.

[charago]

Yeah, i still can't get the title out of my mind..kanashimi wa furu yuki no gotoku - sadness is like the falling snow..and Eru face in the preview..
I really hope that the worst case will be he just can't take Liz with him because of Cain and not because she is dead, because i think Liz is important for the magius too..

[NeutralZero]

Dunno bout Liz but Saki's good as captured... after all she still needs to face Cain...

[Thess]

Speculation of the flashforward, after episode 18. My predictions (some baseless). The empire line is Lieselotte's and L-Elf's bloodline, they are the ones desiring a country and a place that would bloom without fear. Shoko will be a high political figure there. It would start after the Magius secrets get out and all world regime lose credibility.

The founder can be either Pino, Haruto (he could have taken Pino's place so she would be released and somehow modified the Valvrave so he would have destroyed the curse and birth a real hope) or Shoko. The founder is not necessarily related to the royal line, but the one who made the kamitsuki as they are today. That's why Saki only spoke of the founder as someone important to kamitsuki (she never said he or she founded the empire, by the way, it's a title reserved as the founder of kamitsuki). Kamitsuki are the opposite of Magius in modus operandi. Think about it, rather than controling the government from behind the scenes as the Iluminati, they are servants of the royal bloodline and protectors of the prosperity publicly.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Prepare for L-elf's heroic BSOD next episode as he is going to lose the most important people in his life. God damn L-elf, he only be part of New JIOR just so he can used the country to protect Lise.

I'm not really sure if Lise is going to die or not. She is still important to the story as we have to see what her relationship with the Magius was, what that box she's going into is, and how she betrayed the Magius. To betray them would say that they had some sort of confidence in her. So we really need to know all that before they kill her off, if they even do.

I'm guessing it's possible that she gets captured, or perhaps she still decides to stay because of her duty or some other reason.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm not really sure if Lise is going to die or not. She is still important to the story as we have to see what her relationship with the Magius was, what that box she's going into is, and how she betrayed the Magius. To betray them would say that they had some sort of confidence in her. So we really need to know all that before they kill her off, if they even do.

I'm guessing it's possible that she gets captured, or perhaps she still decides to stay because of her duty or some other reason.

Chances are likely that Lise was in the same position as the ARUS president. She was supposed to be in charge but was more a puppet ruler to the magius. She chose to act against them in some way because she didn't like it and they orchestrated the revolution that put their man in charge.

The box she was put in I would say infused her with runes to make her body that of a magius in order to have it taken over by someone on the magius counsel.

I'd actually have to guess that SHE was the one who gave Pino to Jior which matches up to the timeline of Maria. and this is what made the magius so angry at her.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Chances are likely that Lise was in the same position as the ARUS president. She was supposed to be in charge but was more a puppet ruler to the magius. She chose to act against them in some way because she didn't like it and they orchestrated the revolution that put their man in charge.

The box she was put in I would say infused her with runes to make her body that of a magius in order to have it taken over by someone on the magius counsel.

I'd actually have to guess that SHE was the one who gave Pino to Jior which matches up to the timeline of Maria. and this is what made the magius so angry at her.

I'm not buying the whole puppet leader angle, because the Magius would know that the royal family got ousted in the coup 10 years ago which Lise would have been 6. She's a political prisoner with not much power. She definitely doesn't have the power and influence that the ARUS president and Amadeus has. I think she betrayed them in some other way.

She could have been the one that gave Pino to JIOR, but she would have only been 10 or 11 at the time, and still under house arrest. I think it would have been difficult for her to do that.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm not buying the whole puppet leader angle, because the Magius would know that the royal family got ousted in the coup 10 years ago which Lise would have been 6. She's a political prisoner with not much power. She definitely doesn't have the power and influence that the ARUS president and Amadeus has. I think she betrayed them in some other way.

She could have been the one that gave Pino to JIOR, but she would have only been 10 or 11 at the time, and still under house arrest. I think it would have been difficult for her to do that.

I didn't quite put it the way I meant to. Lise was MEANT to be their puppet in the future. Possibly have her taken over and use her body to unify Dorrsia under their complete control rather than only certain factions of it.

I'd say the betrayal has to deal with Pino. Pino and Prue are a pair as stated in the show. Dorssia's royal family perhaps had both of them but Prue was lost to the Magius when they took over Dorssia and Pino was hidden away. Perhaps when L-Elf attempted to rescue her the first time she got a message out to where it was hidden knowing the magius were looking for it which they saw as a betrayal.

[LostSome]

Any chance Liselotte is a Magius ?
Maybe of an older "generation" with lesser powers.
The whole thing about the royal family being around for so long is a little weird.

There`s also when she said she would gave half her life in exchange for L-Elf`s life. Maybe half of her runes ?

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by LostSome

Any chance Liselotte is a Magius ?
Maybe of an older "generation" with lesser powers.
The whole thing about the royal family being around for so long is a little weird.

There`s also when she said she would gave half her life in exchange for L-Elf`s life. Maybe half of her runes ?

I think that is what the box she was in was doing to her. The magius council is turning her into one so that it is more suited for them to take over. That seems to be what they were planning to do to X-Eins as well. I think she'll be shot next episode and it will show that she is one then as a result.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by LostSome

Any chance Liselotte is a Magius ?
Maybe of an older "generation" with lesser powers.
The whole thing about the royal family being around for so long is a little weird.

There`s also when she said she would gave half her life in exchange for L-Elf`s life. Maybe half of her runes ?

It may be possible that she was forcibly turned into one now. Though I don't think she was born as one. The Magius have long lifetimes and physical immortality, if every royal was one, I think the country would have noticed.

Also, we now know that Dorssia has been around for over 1000 years, so we know this is an alternate earth and not out own that shifted history like in CG. The royal family has ruled this long. I think that perhaps the royals may have had a partnership with the Magius for a long time, however, maybe Lieselotte decided not to honor that and that was the betrayal they were talking about?

[LostSome]

The coup was 10 years ago, when she was 6 or something, right ?
And 63 members of the family are still alive today.
She is or did something special or otherwise the Magius would just use some other Royal or took over her already.

Maybe the first generation were just humans with limited control over runes.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by LostSome

The coup was 10 years ago, when she was 6 or something, right ?
And 63 members of the family are still alive today.
She is or did something special or otherwise the Magius would just use some other Royal or took over her already.

Maybe the first generation were just humans with limited control over runes.

She's special because she is first in line for the throne. Having her under their control would have it's benefits if things go wrong with Dorssia.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by LostSome

The coup was 10 years ago, when she was 6 or something, right ?
And 63 members of the family are still alive today.
She is or did something special or otherwise the Magius would just use some other Royal or took over her already.

Maybe the first generation were just humans with limited control over runes.

There's been several coups over the years and the most recent was the one 10 years ago: Bloody Thursday.
The Magius wouldn't want the royal family to take over anything, they really don't care. If they really wanted control they would have turned the current ruler, Amadeus, years ago. He became ruler about 15 years ago, which was before the coup 10 years ago. Yet, they didn't turn Amadeus into a Magius until he decided to meddle into their plans, also they usually don't bother with humanity unless it has to do with their own aims.

This tells me that they don't really care about who's in charge of Dorssia or the royals. I think whatever Lise did, has to do with the Magius inner workings themselves and perhaps she got into something she wasn't supposed to.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by charago

Yeah, i still can't get the title out of my mind..kanashimi wa furu yuki no gotoku - sadness is like the falling snow..and Eru face in the preview..
I really hope that the worst case will be he just can't take Liz with him because of Cain and not because she is dead, because i think Liz is important for the magius too..

Agreed! I doubt she dies, otherwise L-elf wouldn't have gotten in the cockpit with Haruto. She's the reason for everything he's done.

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Prepare for L-elf's heroic BSOD next episode as he is going to lose the most important people in his life. God damn L-elf, he only be part of New JIOR just so he can used the country to protect Lise.

What's wrong with that? The JIORans basically still basically run things. She would be safe there for the most part, and actually move around, instead of being restricted to a couple of rooms. You expect him to help them without getting something in return? That goes against the contract he made with Haruto. In the end, what he wants isn't even for his own benefit.

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Dunno bout Liz but Saki's good as captured... after all she still needs to face Cain...

Not just captured, it looks as though she'll be left behind soon. The crew looks to be heading into space again. Once that happens, she's stranded. I wonder if they left Carmilla in the transport. If L-elf knew the transport would be discovered in that location and considered the chances of Saki being with the searchers. . .

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm not really sure if Lise is going to die or not. She is still important to the story as we have to see what her relationship with the Magius was, what that box she's going into is, and how she betrayed the Magius. To betray them would say that they had some sort of confidence in her. So we really need to know all that before they kill her off, if they even do.

I'm guessing it's possible that she gets captured, or perhaps she still decides to stay because of her duty or some other reason.

"There is no path ahead of us to travel down yet" is what Lieselotte said in the flashback. I believe she'll say that again. I believe she'll stay even though she wants to go. There's a fair chance that even if she were to escape, the magius would just find another to take her place, and she won't let that happen. However, this is a good chance for her to tell L-elf (we finally know his real name!) about Council 101, so the visit wouldn't have been in complete vain. She'll reveal its existence and how they basically control Dorssia now, that they have ties to the Arus government as well, and that they may make contact with New JIOR's prime minister soon, and that's where a chance lies. Then, L-elf would spread this info to Kibukawa and the pilots (except Saki most likely ).

Anyway, I've seen this kind of thing happen in plenty of works of fiction. Bleach is one where Ichigo meets Rukia for the first time after she was imprisoned and awaiting execution, only to fail in bringing her back due to interference from Byakuya, and Youruichi had to step in and get him out of there or he would have died. In the Romeo and Juliet anime, Romeo and Juliet had to part ways again when her friend rescued her from imprisonment and Romeo took her to where they had transport waiting. It's one of those moments where the time isn't right. Ichigo couldn't rescue Rukia because a stronger opponent at the time got in the way. Romeo and Juliet had to part ways because they would just keep having run again.

I believe this reunion by L-elf and Liesellote is a combination of those as L-elf does run into someone that injures him (Cain most likely). We can't tell if it's during the reunion or after she convinces him that "the time isn't now", though I believe it's afterwards as L-elf starts shooting in the hallway and Lieselotte isn't seen with him or anywhere really. Also, the time isn't right. I believe from the bottom of my heart, she wants to go with him, but the situation is complicated especially when the magius is involved, and she'll tell him as much as she can, before outside forces cause them to separate again.

[NeutralZero]

kind of bitter for Saki to be in this possition... damn you L11...
now that's a reason for wanting the princess to have a heart breaking moment with him in the next ep even if we use to like their pairing...
and just hope HAruto won't forget to fetch saki and failed...
its much better than forgetting/leaving her there...

[Kurohane]

To be fair, they didn't have the luxury of searching for her intensely. It's just a situation that couldn't be avoided. As I said, Carmilla may have been left on the transport.