2009-06-18, 16:06 | Link #1541 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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I don't think sneaking into the room to steal the letter from Maria's handbag can really be considered as difficult to do without waking the cousins as waking up Maria to deliver the letter to her, but I suppose I can let that one go. |
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2009-06-18, 17:45 | Link #1542 |
Aspiring Aspirer
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Isn't there a loophole with "Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands."? Because this does not note the moment in which it was unsealed, couldn't it possibly be unsealed, modified and then resealed?
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2009-06-18, 17:48 | Link #1543 |
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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"Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands."
No matter how I look at it....it could always be that Rosa opened it before the time with Battler. No prove she didn't
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2009-06-18, 18:54 | Link #1544 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 39
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Hmm... I don't know. If Maria recieved the genuine envelope and stayed with the cousins on the eve of the first twilight, that would imply Rosa stole it from her bag beforehand to open/close the chapel, no? If we assume Maria didn't know, that means Rosa risked Maria discovering the missing envelope on that eve. If she went that far already, why would she bother resealing the envelope later until morning to open it herself? Likewise, if Maria did know, it still makes no sense for her to reseal it.
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2009-06-18, 19:30 | Link #1546 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 39
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Elaborate please. Do you mean to say that Rosa gave Maria a genuine envelope on that day, then during the eve of that day switched it out for a fake one, then again switched it out later? That makes no sense either, why not just give her a fake envelope in the first place?
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2009-06-18, 19:37 | Link #1547 |
Aspiring Aspirer
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I'm not saying that Rosa gave her the letter, instead she switched the real one out for a fake one and then returned it.
But its highly unlikely. It would only be possible if she knew the key was in the letter. Without having the "Beatrice" as an accomplice.
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2009-06-18, 21:10 | Link #1548 |
Solve me...
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Maria's key = fake?
Could it be that Rosa had the chapel key with her all along, like when she stepped foot on Rokkenjima she went to steal the chapel key and placed a fake key there. Beatrice then went to steal the fake key and placed it in Maria's envelope. She thought that it was the real key. She wanted to conduct the first twilight, however, Rosa already did it for her. ...? Beatrice just got outwitted. Beatrice is incompetant.
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2009-06-19, 02:13 | Link #1552 |
Member
Join Date: May 2009
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I used to think the 'furniture isn't human' arguement was good, but at one point Beatrice says something in red that denied that possibility partially. She doesn't seem to consider them 'human' but she does seem to consider them 'people'. At one point she says something like 'X people died.' and then follows with a list of names in red that include 'furniture'. So if she says people in red we can be sure she means the funiture as well, but if she says human in red, we might want to take a second look.
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2009-06-19, 06:08 | Link #1553 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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So, either the chapel was already open when the key was placed in the envelope, or they didn't move to the chapel until long after midnight when the cousins were asleep. |
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2009-06-19, 07:06 | Link #1554 |
Senior Member
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Under that hypothesis, Rosa only had to make one secret trip to the cousins' room. She pretended to remove the key the next day when she fetched it at ~6:30 AM the next day.
(She didn't notice the words "Happy Halloween for Maria" the previous night. When she saw them by daylight, she was afraid somebody would connect the envelope to the chapel key.) Spoiler for Accuracy of scenes:
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2009-06-19, 08:17 | Link #1555 | |
エーレンフェストの聖女
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
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Sorry to ask this but. .
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2009-06-19, 10:58 | Link #1559 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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For #3: Why can't someone have noticed the window open, figured it was a mistake, and closed and locked it without telling Battler? Nanjo could've done it accidentally and never mentioned it. If nobody knew George was going to leave through a window, they wouldn't suspect much.
I've said before that I think Nanjo is the staker. Now I'm not totally sure, though I think he very likely is a staker. But I have an unusual theory for another candidate: Shannon. Also she might be the fake "Beatrice" whom Maria trusts. Or one of them. She may or may not also be the ritual symbol maker. She has a lot of stuff she could be, though I don't know what if anything she is. Food for thought: There are a lot of curious things about her in each episode. In ep1, she could have faked her death (unidentified corpses were guaranteed, but her corpse was identified). She could therefore still be alive. That lets her do basically anything. Most notably, "Beatrice" appears to Maria in the twilight with Nanjo/Kumasawa/Genji and assures her cooperation and silence. I think a woman would have to do this, and there aren't many options available at that point in ep1. Likewise, "Beatrice" appears at the end, though she's never identified. Shannon as a faked death and/or working with faked-death Krauss seems probable here. All three magic symbols appear in this one. Episode 2, I don't think Shannon is doing much killing, though she might be doing stakings. "Beatrice" appears several times and is noticed by Kyrie, Genji, etc. But she could be Shannon (or Jessica maybe?). If the whole "someone really was planning a Halloween party for Maria" thing is accurate, it could've just been an innocent thing. Then Rosa (probably) killed people and things started going to hell. I'm pretty suspicious of Genji and Rosa here, but it's possible someone else was also killing, and somebody was also staking and drawing symbols. However, they only drew the two, not the last one; Shannon died before the last one would've appeared. Episode 3, Shannon dies in the First Twilight. No Beatrice appears (she's "replaced" by Eva-Beatrice). No magic symbols appear except the first ones on the doors, which may not be the correct way to use them. Maybe they were already prepared, or maybe someone else did them (the "second staker" Nanjo or something?). People are still staked however, which injures Shannon-as-staker unless there's two. Episode 4, we don't really know when Shannon dies, but there are stakes (used incorrectly) and two stakes are found near Shannon and Nanjo at the well. Odd that both my suspects for staker would be together. But I can't really assert what Shannon would've been doing, if she was the one who appeared to Battler, etc. It's possible, dumb as it sounds, that there's a "Beatrice costume" and this is part of what Battler saw at the end of ep2 (along with Kinzo's unburned corpse). I'm still thinking Nanjo is the staker, but the fact that he ends up staked a lot means either his killer is staking him to cover it up or there's two stakers. But I assume there's just one set of stakes, so if there's multiple stakers, they know each other somehow... |
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