|
View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 20 | 28.99% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 25 | 36.23% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 17 | 24.64% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 4.35% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 4 | 5.80% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2012-07-07, 01:26 | Link #141 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Remember the phone messaging. Hongou was ready to just go apologize, and that would have been that. I'll add that you seem very concerned about what people will think of the movie. Like Oreki was tricked into take an enormous risk. But he wasn't. Not only did he go into this with his eyes open (if for the wrong reasons), but the risk was absolutely minimal. It's just a student film. Nobody's going to look for heads to roll if it's a failure. They were doing for self-satisfaction anyway, which means they have to take responsibility for not vetoing the script if they thought it wasn't up to scratch. And last but not least, what does Oreki care? Irisu has to work with them, but Oreki doesn't have to give a damn what they think. It'd be out of character for him to. |
|
2012-07-07, 01:40 | Link #142 |
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Please forgive me about not answering point by point. I think it's hard to read. I'll try my best to express my respond.
It's harder to accept being manipulated by your family, I agree with you on that, but look at it from the manipulator point of view i.e. from Tomoe's. Of course she think she knows what's best for her brother. She has no problem manipulating him, but that does not mean she'll be ok with anyone doing the same thing to him. Irisu should realized that much. My point about this is Irisu cannot avoid bringing up the topic of her failure. So I disagree with the idea that she brought it up because she felt guilty. Even if she felt no guilty, she still had to brought it up. Tomoe is Houtarou's family, and had every right to know. It doesn't matter how "badly" she treated her brother. Before moving on, let me make it clear. I have my opinion about Tomoe's action; she's trying to make him learn the way of the world. You can say, and I won't deny, that I'm giving her an easier time than Irisu. I think her action so far indicated that she has a good reason why she is giving him a hard time. I don't see any similar indication from Irisu towards her classmates. Maybe we just didn't see it at this point, but what we did see so far, to me, indicated otherwise. I'll refer to relentlessframe's arguments on this point. Noted, however, that my opinion about Tomoe does not affect my opinion about why Irisu has to brought up the topic. I didn't say Irisu doesn't care about anything. We all agree she care about the success of the movie. She won't just escape from this, that's clear enough. Please allow me to emphasize that she want a "successful" movie, not just "finished." She can make Hougou the fall guy, but that won't make the movie a success. Neither does telling the class they sucks. That would backfire because they still need to do their parts (filming, etc.) This has nothing to do with whether or not she care about anyone. Even if she totally does not care about anyone, it can still be explained why she does not just escape and avoid telling they sucks. The reason being neither will make the movie a "success." So yes, Irisu's virtue is she is very responsible on what she think is important. In this case, it's the success of the movie. That's why I said in my point (1) that if the movie turned out badly, she'll probably come clean and take the blame. However, she want no responsible on anything else (my point (2) and more). She just doesn't care because it's not important to her. So I have to go back to my first point: she got her priority wrong. I myself thought "She was not that bad" until I saw reaction to Tomoe's accusation. When I saw "But I'm not in a position to let it failed" then everything clicked. It explains why she lied, manipulated, and did whatever it took, good or bad, to make an "interesting" script. All of her nasty methods may be justified if what's on the line is something more important. I may be able to forgive her, if this movie is, say, crucial to someone's future career. But it's not. In the end, the only thing Irisu protected is one of the deadly sin: her pride. |
2012-07-07, 02:11 | Link #143 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-07-07, 02:16 | Link #144 | |
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Quote:
She will take a responsibility, the (1) one. I argued that she has a way out of that too, but if you think I'm wrong on that, I'm ok with it. Actually, let me just admit I'm wrong on that first point. Giving how she prioritized the success of the movie, she probably won't even try to watch her hands from that one. The problem is she doesn't take the (2). Please refer to my last post's last paragraph for that. I'll assume from your repeatedly "Like hell" that you try to tell me it's not on the same scale. It doesn't. I agree. I didn't even try to say that. I was tempted so many times in this discussion to bring Emiya Kiritsugu into the argument. I didn't because it's another step of "different scale." I'll probably get (Like hell)^137 if I brought him up . My point here is it's as hard to me to see Irisu and that-guy-behind-the-scene action in a "care too much" light. I just won't buy it. Noted that I still see the similarity between the two events, even if it's on a different scale. If you disagree with me on that, I'm cool with it. And I don't care about what people think about the movie. It sucks, intentionally even (by the real staffs themselves). Irisu is the one who care, because that is the indication of the movie's success. Too much, actually. That's where she went wrong. Edit: Again, my point is Irisu cannot avoid bringing up the topic of her failure to cover it up to the end. That was the whole point of that argument. If you want to have a discussion about Tomoe's action then I stated my opinion in the later paragraph, but that have nothing to do with my argument of why Irisu say "I feel sorry for him." Triple_R thinks she brought it up because she felt sorry for him. I think it's because she cannot avoid bringing up the topic. That part of argument is to support that opinion of mine. Last edited by Hyper; 2012-07-07 at 02:28. |
|
2012-07-07, 02:27 | Link #145 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2012-07-07, 02:46 | Link #146 | |
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Quote:
If I said a movie failure is a danger to him than I'll admit I was wrong. I think it was wrong to involve him using lies because a failure to solve the mystery is a danger to his self-esteem. Well, I just think involving him using lies is wrong in and of itself. |
|
2012-07-07, 04:09 | Link #147 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
|
Quote:
By the way, let me propose an alternate story path for Irisu that would have almost totally redeemed her in my book: Let's say that everything happened exactly as shown up to the point where Houtarou reveals the movie ending to Irisu (right near the end of Episode 10). But at that point, instead of being like "thanks so much for solving the mystery; you're so great" (paraphrase), she instead thanked him and apologized for using a false pretence to get his help. She could explain that she was really in a bind about the script, and had heard about his deductive ability, but didn't think he would agree to help her any other way. Would he be hurt by the deception? Yes. Might he be mad about the methods she used to ensnare him? Absolutely. But if she apologized to him sincerely, and thanked him for how he helped her, at least he might say "I was played like a fool, but at least I helped someone". He would know then that the ending he wrote actually was his own, which would deflate the questioning he got from the other members of the Classics Club. He could take some pride in the fact that (almost) everyone liked his ending. And he could improve (particularly his ability to avoid being tricked!) for next time. Now I realize this approach has risks, partly because of the way she also manipulated other people and hasn't told them yet. But if we want to talk about "how to redeem Irisu" -- how to show that she felt bad for what she did and really does care for other people -- it's a lot easier to stomach if she apologizes and explains herself, even if it's after the fact. And heck, with that sort of ending, maybe she could even have an on-going role in the story! Here, it's like she did all this lying and thought she could get away with it, until the house came down on her like a stack of cards. That makes her look like a bad person. A clear apology (volunteered before being exposed) makes her look like a desperate and (thus) manipulative person, but not all bad. But, of course, I don't think it necessarily fits her reputation as "Empress" (but it would add a dimension to it).
__________________
|
|
2012-07-07, 04:27 | Link #148 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Irisu isn't their teacher. She's barely their leader. She wasn't brought in for her knowledge of the medium or the genre, of which she has little. She intervened because she's good at mediating between conflicting parties and getting a product out of the door. So, no, her job isn't to help make them better filmmakers. It's not what they want, it's not what she's good at, and she doesn't have the authority for it (not just in the sense that she can't order them around, but in that they won't value her opinion all that much). Her job is to make them crap out a movie so they'll be able to look back on it and say "yes, we made an amateur movie for the school festival" with maybe some embarrassment at the low production value, but without shame or bitterness. |
|
2012-07-07, 05:08 | Link #149 | ||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Quote:
And yes she is not their teachers, so the responsibility is not the same as my example. However, they are her friends, and I think if your friend is wrong (sucks), you have to tell them that, and explain why. That was exactly what Mayaka, Satoshi, and Eru did for Houtarou. They faced him with the truth; he was wrong. They didn't have the ability to teach him the right answer, but they could explain to him why he was wrong, so they did. They risked having Houtarou hate them, but they still said it, because they cared. Quote:
Now you make me suspect that if Houtarou didn't figure it out, Tomoe will tell him herself that he got used. If we assume that she did this to his benefit, then it is what she should do. |
||
2012-07-07, 07:47 | Link #150 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
If it had gone to plan, her solution would have gotten that satisfaction for everyone. Even if the prop guy wasn't happy his solution wasn't used, at least his arm - which he put a lot of work in - didn't get cut and fit with the story. Hongou got out of it without having to explain herself. (As I said earlier, she should at the very least have told the director what her plan was. But really, she should have drawn her line in the sand from the beginning and openly refused to write a murder, and votes be damned.) Irisu herself didn't get associated with a movie she didn't like. (Why wouldn't her own satisfaction matter?) Houtarou got to be the hero who salvaged the project. Quote:
|
||
2012-07-07, 07:48 | Link #151 | ||
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
|
Irisu was perfectly happy to puff up Oreki's ego as long as it got the solution she wanted. She probably didn't think it would do any harm. Lie a bit, manipulate a bit, everyone's happy and the project she has taken responsibility for is sorted out. The minor problem from her perspective would be that Oreki realised the lie, not that there was anything wrong with the lie in the first place or that she would not have done it if she had realised it would hurt him.
But, this is not a morally correct way to go about things. This is what happens when people lie and manipulate others: they hurt people and upset them when they realise they have been used. I have to agree with those who have said that Irisu's leadership skills are lacking. Good leaders should have integrity and honour, and Irisu's lies and manipulation simply for the sake of a lousy class mystery film do not show that. There was no need to do something like that for the sake of something this trivial. It's very much an ends justifying the means point of view, and it isn't healthy. The implication is that Irisu approaches everything she has responsibility for with this sort of attitude of success at all cost. I'll quote the text from the novel rather than going through and writing down the text from the last ep: Quote:
Quote:
Thinking about that, assuming Irisu's goal was simply to at all cost get a film ending she found acceptable, there was very little hope for her there, wasn't there? Apparently, both she and an entire class of people were unable to come up with an ending she was happy with. The "let's get someone in to find Hongou's true intentions!" tack is really the only thing she could have done for that goal instead of saying "you all suck at writing, and I won't let any of your scripts be used for the ending, so we'll have to get in someone from another class to do it". Depressing. Still, I think she should have left the ending up to the class and had them decide on an ending of their own making. It doesn't have to be a great movie, as long as the class can decide on an ending. |
||
2012-07-07, 11:20 | Link #152 | ||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Quote:
So the only real reason (and the most likely reason going by Occam's Razor) for Irisu to bring up Oreki is that Irisu does feel at least some guilt over how she hurt Oreki. Quote:
Her methods are obviously questionable, but she had good reasons for why she took the actions that she did. Quote:
No, Irisu's desire for the movie to be a success must go beyond simple self-interest. She must care some about other people in order for her to take the actions that she did. Quote:
If Hongou doesn't deserve "harsh judgement" for "not standing up to the class" (i.e. tell difficult truths about her discomfort in writing a movie with a murder in it), than nor does Irisu deserve "harsh judgement" for not telling difficult truths. Hongou and Irisu both favor conflict-avoidance. They both don't want to displease, disappoint, or upset people. Quote:
If Irisu redeems herself, in your eyes, isn't it conceivable that Oreki may one day think better of her? Quote:
I think a decent case can be made that Oreki would have been better off not knowing the truth. Like Anh_Minh stated, if Irisu's plan had fully worked, it would have brought satisfaction for everybody. There is some obvious value in that. Quote:
If I was in Oreki's shoes, I would feel totally trolled if Irisu took the approach that you're advocating. This wouldn't help Irisu's image at all, in my view. In fact, it would make me see her as much more brazen and, well, trollish. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How many US Presidents do you think never once lied to someone, and never manipulated someone? Were all the ones who ever told a lie or manipulated someone bad leaders because of it? Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-07-07 at 11:49. |
||||||||||||||
2012-07-07, 14:32 | Link #153 | ||
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
|
It is when you're lying and manipulating someone for your own gain, and they realise they've been used. Did Oreki think it was a good, positive thing? He did not. Although it is useful for his long-term character development.
Quote:
I'll restate that I think a good leader should have integrity and honour. Sometimes they may be forced to tarnish themselves, but at the level and situation Irisu is working in, she has no such need. In fact, in most leadership positions, a trustworthy, honest leader is the best type for their subordinates. Rather than somebody of the puppetmaster type. Quote:
The film-making class in Hyouka was not in a bad position. They were committed to their task and had put forward several solutions. They had every opportunity to pull together and make the best of their situation by picking one of their ideas. A whole class full of people should have been able to decide on a solution in time. It's rather mystifying that they're apparently all too stupid, Irisu included, to choose one and write it. All that ended up being written on Oreki's advice was a single scene. It was their class project, and it is appropriate that it should represent the work they put into it, rather than the work of someone else. If it was substandard, then that was the limit of their skill and they couldn't go any further. They weren't wrong to try to find a better solution, but I'm not sure they would have approved of the methods used to find that, had they known. And would the class have been happy to find that their four ideas had been rejected not because they were impossible to pull off or because they did not fit Hongou's vision (the vision of someone from their class), but because Irisu did not think the class was good enough? Last edited by GoldenLand; 2012-07-07 at 15:04. |
||
2012-07-07, 14:46 | Link #154 | ||||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Let me say my opinion on a related topic first. I was raising my eyebrows when I read some people's reaction to Mayaka, Satoshi, and Eru in this episode. Like how they were too harsh or over-dramatized for a stupid movie. I now understand why that reaction bothers me. The reason is again because it is what I do for my friend. I won't care a bit for that stupid movie, but I do care that my friend is wrong. The reason it's serious is my friend is showing the whole school a wrong answer and he doesn't notice it. I cannot leave it like that because I call that "abandon" my friend.
Quote:
About "what if it went according to plan," my respond is I won't call her plan acceptable in the first place. Her plan will hurt people, because the truth will come out. Maybe now, maybe later, but it will. We see how it does not satisfied everyone when the lies are exposed. Again, for me, lying is not an option. You can insist on it. And say the truth come out 40+ years later when it already became a classic like the first arc, it probably won't matter. I'll say that now you went to the opposite extreme from Irisu, emphasizing too much for the fun. That will just inflate your friends' ego, and it is not something I'll do to my friend if I care. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
(1) Abandon the project. Hurt her pride. (2) Won't help the project in anyway. (3) Because telling them the truth won't help the project. They still cannot write a better script. No benefit for her or the project to be hated for. (4) It helps the project to move along. Last edited by Hyper; 2012-07-07 at 15:03. Reason: Fixed (3) |
||||
2012-07-07, 15:09 | Link #155 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You and some other people on this thread are blowing this way out of proportion, in my opinion. And the irony is that you're making a huge deal out of it while you're simultaneously talking about how supposedly unimportant this student film is. Well, if bruising one guy's ego is a huge deal, then by the same rationale it's obviously also a huge deal to disappoint a full class of students. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So here's the thing: 1. Tomoe already knows about how Oreki found out the truth, and I'm inclined to think that Irisu already told her about it off camera. 2. Judging by the first two lines that we do see Tomoe write to Irisu, Tomoe doesn't appear to be upset about this. So if Irisu is only worried about looking good in Tomoe's eyes, she doesn't need to bring up Oreki at all.
__________________
Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-07-07 at 15:17. Reason: Adding reply to Hyper |
||||||||
2012-07-07, 15:44 | Link #156 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2012-07-07, 15:58 | Link #157 | ||||
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
|
Quote:
But OK, we can leave that point there since it looks like we won't agree. Quote:
Your first line there doesn't seem to make sense or any actual argument in response to my point in my post earlier, so I'll leave it. Quote:
My next lines after the one you've got a problem with there were "If it was substandard, then that was the limit of their skill and they couldn't go any further. They weren't wrong to try to find a better solution, but I'm not sure they would have approved of the methods used to find that, had they known." No, they weren't wrong to look for a better solution. Quote:
I'm saying that circumstances and standards differ. Lying for a cause like saving lives, for example, is a different kettle of fish from lying for your own gain and pride. Most people will not be in a circumstance where them being a good leader involves lying in order to save lives. |
||||
2012-07-07, 16:51 | Link #158 | ||||
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
The problem is Irisu doesn't want that. She want a good movie, and she will lie to her friends to make that happen, regardless of how her friends actually want to play this game. She is the one who want to play this game to win, and she will drag her friend along with her, whether they like it or not. Quote:
Quote:
Emiya Kiritsugu's wish: 10^137 Sekitani Jun's expulsion: 10^6 Lying to your classmate: 10 Lying to Houtarou, a (relatively) stranger: 1 Hurting Houtarou's pride: 1 Disappointment of the whole class: 0.1 Success of the class movie: 0.01 Everything in this arc is hopelessly insignificant compare to the first two. However, when you compare within themselves, there are differences. I simply value honestly much more than the success of the movie or satisfaction of the whole class. I also say one can make the class satisfy to an extend without any lie by just picking one of their script. My problem with Irisu is she probably think the success of the movie is somewhere around 50, so for her it make sense to do what she did. Last edited by Hyper; 2012-07-07 at 16:53. Reason: Fixed first respond |
||||
2012-07-07, 18:21 | Link #159 |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
|
Looking at the whole thing pragmatically, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Hongou had a problem with the execution of the script. Irisu gracefully offered to take on the responsibility for it. After all, they shared a common goal in creating a successful movie. Whether or not she had ulterior motives for doing so makes no difference. Can you honestly fault someone for harboring ulterior motives?
Of course, her deception towards Houtarou was a tad bit more questionable, but that's another matter entirely.
__________________
Last edited by Qilin; 2012-07-08 at 05:47. |
2012-07-08, 14:44 | Link #160 |
mechaii
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 44
|
These are random thoughts on the episode and the whole story arc. I'm not posting this for the sake of feedback. Instead, I mean this post to clarify my own thoughts on the subject. It's just that posting my musings where others might read them (even if nobody actually does) tends to enhance the rigor of my analysis. I apologize in advance selfishly hijacking the thread, but in my defence, this discussion looks like it's petering out anyway. References to specific scenes in the anime are based on Episode # + minute:second, using Media Player Classic.
1. This was not a mystery story. At first, I too thought it was. But it's not. The discussion here was initially preoccupied with whether Houtaro's solution for the ending was "wrong." How can there be a "wrong" answer when the story does not even provide the "correct" answer but successfully resolves the central dramatic conflict of the narrative nevertheless? At the 21:04 mark of Episode 11, during the epilogue, Houtaro confirms that he can only imagine what kind of ending Hongou would have wanted ("souzou [想像] de shikanai ga" - literally "imagination is all we have"). Moreover,the story isn't primarily concerned with what happened to Hongou - certain information crucial to decyphering her situation - such as the poll results on the number of desired victims - was not revealed to the audience until the story was practically over. Also, see Episode 11 at 11:45, where Houtaro, in revealing his "deduction" about what happened to Hongou, admits at 15:45 that he has no evidence and is simply speculating. The necessary information to solve either mystery was, by design, never set forth in the story. So focusing on whether Houtaro accurately figured out either Hongou's situation or her intended ending constitutes a gross misappreciation of the story. That is trying to make it something it's not. If I had to peg it down, I would slot this story under psychological thriller. The central conflict is between Irisu and Houtaro, and the narrative tension springs from Houtaro's mental processes as he slowly figures out Irisu's machinations. The author never intended for the so- called "mysteries" to be solved because the resulting uncertainty was his primary literary mechanism for generating psychological drama and tension within the story. That's actually pretty clever. 2. An important plot issue: Eru, Satoshi and Mayaka figured out that Houtaro had been lied to and manipulated by Irisu way ahead of Houtaro himself. That is what they were each gently trying to let him know in private to avoid further embarrassing him. The lie: in Episode 8 at the 15:01 mark, when directly queried by Houtaro about whether Irisu intended to have the classics club write the ending to the rump movie, she replied "sasuga sona koto wa tanomou nai" (roughly translated as "I couldn't possibly ask such a thing of you" or "that would be asking too much of you"). She said it in front of all four of them. Irisu explained there was an ending but she needed help figuring out exactly what it was. Fast forward to Episode 10. The movie has a nifty ending, but Eru, Satoshi and Mayaka are dead certain the ending could not have been Hongou's work. If Houngou didn't write it, then who else did? The three could not tell Houtaro directly that he unwitingly wrote the script, because that would tactlessly brand him a sucker to his face and implicate Irisu as a liar. Mayaka was the most subtle, but in Episode 10 at 23:34, she pointedly asked Houtaro if he thought up the whole ending by himself (zenbu?). That question would make absolutely no sense unless she was trying to tell him something about the true source of the script. Satoshi came closest to being blunt. In Episode 11 starting at about 4:39 - "Are ga Houtaro no an [案] nara, nanimo iwa nai yo. Kedo, Houngou senpai no an ite koto nara, boku mo chigau koto Iwazaru ienai" (very roughly "if you [Houtaro] claim it [the ending] as your own, there would be nothing for me to say. But to insist it was Hongou's idea is a lie" - the idiomatic reference to Iwazaru, the monkey that speaks no evil literally means "that is a lie that neither I nor Iwazaru would utter"). Satoshi goes on to say that if, after thinking over what Satoshi just told him, Houtaro remains convinced that the ending was Hongou's and not his own, Satoshi might accept it ("Houtaro ga shinzou koto omoeru n'da, boku wa sore de mo ii yo"). When Eru finally takes her turn with Houtaro starting at 5:24, she couches it in terms of her curiosity about Hongou, but her message is the same: Houngou did not write that ending. The unstated but inescapable conclusion: you (Houtaro) did. Further proof that Houtaro's clubmates knew it was Irisu specifically that suckered him comes directly from the characters' own words. In Episode 10 at 7:50, Satoshi says he knows Houtaro is doing it for Irisu, and more importantly, later in the same episode at 9:00, Mayaka says pretty much the same thing, but her sly expression implies she detects something deeper about Houtaro's true motivaton in doing Irisu's bidding. When they see the finished movie at the end of the episode, it doesn't take a special gift them to figure out who coaxed Houtaro into crafting the movie's finale. Still more evidence is found in Episode 11, beginning at 10:52. Orecki pulls out the Tarot book. At 11:07 he reads the description of the Empress and wonders why Satoshi & co. would assign it to Irisu as it does not match his image of her. He also sees the image of Strength as a fierce lion being controlled by a gentle woman and is vexed that Satoshi would apply that symbol to him. On the other hand, he finds that the Justice, Magician and Fool accurately fit Mayaka, Satoshi and Eru, respectively. So he wonders about this discrepancy - why do the tarot symbols for his three friends make sense to him, but not those assigned to himself and Irisu. It is at this point, at 12:20, that he has the flash of insight regarding a change of point of view ("mikata wo kaeru"). But what was he looking at from the wrong viewpoint (mikata - 見方 - literally, method of seeing)? It's none other than himself and Irisu. He realized he was not evaluating himself vis-a-vis Irisu objectively, so he decides to examine his relationship with Irisu from the vantage of his clubmates to see how it appears to them. Only then does he finally understand what they had been trying to tell him about what Irisu had done. The next day, he confronts Irisu. This sequence of events goes a long way towards rationalizing the way the characters reacted and behaved towards each other, particularly Houtaro's fury and his clubmates' gingerly approach to handling him. There's an extra element of humiliation to Houtaro's deception because he, with the supposedly "special gift," was the last among his mates to grasp the fact of his own victimization. And this provides a neat ironic flourish to the psychological drama that should not be overlooked. I'm open to an alternative explanation of what Houtaro's "change of viewpoint" refers to, but right now, this is the only interpretation that makes sense to me. Wow, writing it out like this really works. I wish I'd thought of this sooner. |
|
|