(CR) Wake Up, Girls !

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Candyshark

Why people so keen to see dark side? Im@s and LL never tried to be idealistic approach to idol industry. As with any high competitive high prestige industry it is tough to make the cut and it is hard road. You can paint any career in black colors and yell it is corrupted and filled with vultures. Isn't it mostly few accidents blown out of proportions rather than nature of business?

FFY.


I can't tell if they love or hate Yamamoto. Or maybe both at the same time

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Candyshark

/scratches head.

And how many people work in idol industry here? And what kind of depiction is realistic? And what kind of exploitive nature that is SPECIFIC for idols and can't be found anywhere else.

Why does it have to be specific to idols? If the yakuza are involved with other aspects of the Japanese entertainment industry, does that make their involvement with idol groups better? Because Britney Spears shaved her head, does that negate what happened to Minegishi?

In any case, I think prohibiting 20-something women from having relationships is pretty unusual in the modern world.

[Haak]

God forbid that a show makes a social commentary about how bad an industry can get...

[wontaek]

I saw the first episode, and thought that if it wasn't for the underwear, it wasn't that bad. If the voice actresses improves, and they show less underwear , I think I might enjoy this series.

[Reckoner]

I don't think this series will be the full indictment of the idol industry that some wish to see. It is probably more about communicating what an idol should mean to people, while exposing some of the more negative aspects of the industry that we know of. More of a "here are the issues" and "what we should strive for in the industry" sort of thing.

In any case, I am impressed by the restrained more dignified atmosphere of the show. It's a bit refreshing to see, especially in a season like this which is riddled with some of the worst otaku pandering shows around.

[einhorn303]

To all the people watching just EP 1 without seeing the movie: you really need to see the movie first. It's essentially the show's EP 1-2, and the first episode of the TV series is EP3.

[Marcus H.]

Why people so keen to see dark side? Im@s and LL never tried to be realistic approach to idol industry. As with any high competitive high prestige industry it is tough to make the cut and it is hard road. You can paint any career in black colors and yell it is corrupted and filled with vultures. Isn't it mostly few accidents blown out of proportions rather than nature of business?

I think I understand what Candyshark wanted to say. "Just because we can show the dark side of life doesn't mean we should."

It is probably more about communicating what an idol should mean to people, while exposing some of the more negative aspects of the industry that we know of.

Unfortunately, the idol industry, like most things Japanese, is heavily connected to Japanese culture, and the most of what Wake Up Girls can do is illustrate what is going on. I doubt that those money-mongering Yakuza and profiteering idol groups would give up what they have been doing for god knows how long just to treat their talents a bit better.

Besides, they are not the receiving end of countless sweaty palms throughout their career.

[Flower]

You know, I don't mind them showing the underbelly of the idol business, just as long as they don't "wallow" in it and try to "grind it in our face".

Even iM@S showed a little bit of this, particularly the activities of Kuroi - petty though they were - and the paparazzi digging up and sensationalizing Chihaya's past.

[JohnNiles]

Watched the movie and episode and was satisfied. As far as I'm concerned, anime is saved, at least for this week.

[Jaden]

I started watching the first episode of the series, then half way through realized I'm supposed to see the movie first. Going to do that now.

My impression was still good, this setting should make for interesting drama. Art was also good, cute characters that aren't overdesigned. They seemed somehow unnatural and awkward though, and then I realized I haven't heard any of these voices before, and I pride myself as someone that knows his anime. The strange feeling I got must be the difference between veteran voice actresses and relative newbies.

This must be deliberate, since the characters are also newbie idols. You know, it'd be really cool if the anime demonstrated this gap in some episode. For example, their first gig could be serving as supporting performers at some event. Ater their performance, some top-tier group voiced by well-known idols/seiyuus would take the stage and absolutely wipe the floor with Wake Up, Girls, leaving them gawking in shame.

[MeisterBabylon]

Absolutely wiping the floor? Totally. But rather than feeling shame, I hope they at least feel inspired to try harder.

(though bringing in diva type characters would be... playing the trope so straight its kinda boring at this point.)

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

In any case, I think prohibiting 20-something women from having relationships is pretty unusual in the modern world.

More precisely, in the Western world or wherever anything that doesn't conform to our society's Westernized standards is considered abnormal.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I doubt that those money-mongering Yakuza and profiteering idol groups would give up what they have been doing for god knows how long just to treat their talents a bit better.

Ahhh, it's so easy to blame the Yakuza for having a hand in this or that. Well, the Yakuza used to be all-powerful in the 80s, having even gone so far as to involve or meddle with the entertainment industry or that they had government officials in their pockets. But then with the Japanese government taking a hard stance against organized crime and the Feds breathing down their necks, the boryukudan, as the Yakuza are formally termed, have gone underground; removing the Yakuza from the equation, and the entertainment industry distancing from the underworld changed the nature of the game.

As I have taken the experience since the last year to see what the idol industry had to offer, to be frank, it's like the rock (or for that matter, most genres) music scene: you have corporate sellouts, and then you have struggling indies, and their fans in between. But unlike rock music's practitioners, I feel that for the most parts idol j-pop has little of the strife and egomania so common in pop music outside Japan; only the rare selfish idol would dare to pick a fight with another.

BTW, where some of you people are picking up your knowledge about idols from? S*tkaku?

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by sa547

More precisely, in the Western world or wherever anything that doesn't conform to our society's Westernized standards is considered abnormal.

Are you saying that it's perfectly normal in Japan for a twenty year old woman to have to hide the fact that she even has a boyfriend, let alone spent the night at his house? Because that's definitely not the impression one gets from mainstream Japanese literature.

Ahhh, it's so easy to blame the Yakuza for having a hand in this or that. Well, the Yakuza used to be all-powerful in the 80s, having even gone so far as to involve or meddle with the entertainment industry or that they had government officials in their pockets. But then with the Japanese government taking a hard stance against organized crime and the Feds breathing down their necks, the boryukudan, as the Yakuza are formally termed, have gone underground; removing the Yakuza from the equation, and the entertainment industry distancing from the underworld changed the nature of the game.

It would seem that Yamakan and the show's writers don't share this impression. Neither does Jake Adelstein, given the things he said when ANN interviewed him.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Are you saying that it's perfectly normal in Japan for a twenty year old woman to have to hide the fact that she even has a boyfriend, let alone spent the night at his house? Because that's definitely not the impression one gets from mainstream Japanese literature.

Only if she is an entertainment personality; an established non-idol actress, yes, can date anyone, but not a full-time idol who she forgets that she's a performer operating under rules (any organization in Japan have their strict rules and etiquette and hierarchy, whether you're a sumo wrestler or a noh practitioner).

It would seem that Yamakan and the show's writers don't share this impression. Neither does Jake Adelstein, given the things he said when ANN interviewed him.

The problem with Adelstein is that not everyone agrees with his so-called revelations, as there are some alleged inconsistencies with his investigations and thus there are doubts about his credibility. Furthermore, if there are any links to the underground, most higher-up figures (they prefer not to be in the public eye) in the entertainment industry will neither acknowledge nor deny, knowing that it could be used as a means of blackmail or lead to scandal and public criticism, and they know that in Japan reputation is everything.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Just watched the (53-minute) movie. Yes, it would have been a good idea to do that first. Recommended. Enjoyed it, and it helped me get a clearer grasp of the story that will now play out in the TV series. It also gave some rationale for the panty shots, which made them not seem such a random surprise.

And by the way, it's perfectly normal in Japan for any seiyuu in her twenties to have to hide the fact that she is dating someone. The uproar over Toyosaki Aki and musician Tom H@ck supposedly living together was enormous. It just didn't go so far as forcing her to quit, as it did with the AKB48 idol. And Miyano Mamoru announcing his marriage provoked great upset from female fans. There's an otaku manifesto around that says seiyuus should be licensed, and have their licenses taken away if they are found to be dating or married. "Female seiyuus are 2.5D. They are angels. So naturally they must be virgins, and it is out of the question for them to have anything to do with men." If a significant proportion of your fanbase thinks this, then it makes sense to keep your private life either limited or secret.

[AmeNoJaku]

Different cultures, different beliefs... none is right or wrong universally, but their attitudes work well in their environment. Condemning one practice as wrong, immoral, or whatever else is problematic, in the sense that one tries to enforce her own ethos into an incompatible environment.

Now taking the context into account, one of the most interesting aspects in my opinion, is the age of some of the idols, nearing adulthood they would be instantly excluded from the manufacturing process of the industry, even at the local level that the anime handles.

Another is the depiction of contemporary life in NE Japan, and the way the staff decided to expose the mood after all the recent events.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

There's an otaku manifesto around that says seiyuus should be licensed, and have their licenses taken away if they are found to be dating or married. "Female seiyuus are 2.5D. They are angels. So naturally they must be virgins, and it is out of the question for them to have anything to do with men." If a significant proportion of your fanbase thinks this, then it makes sense to keep your private life either limited or secret.

It does make sense for them to keep their private life secret, but this is pretty sad. These otaku are unworthy of being called fans. If they really liked these seiyuus that much, they would wish them happiness instead of wanting to condemn them to a life of loneliness. Seiyuus are human beings with very human needs, unlike what they've deluded themselves into believing. They should just stick to obsessing about 2D girls, they aren't hurting anybody this way.

[Haak]

Yeah, even if you make the case that other industries have similarly backwards social phenomenon, I don't think anyone is against putting them under scrutiny as well...

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by sa547

Only if she is an entertainment personality; an established non-idol actress, yes, can date anyone, but not a full-time idol who she forgets that she's a performer operating under rules (any organization in Japan have their strict rules and etiquette and hierarchy, whether you're a sumo wrestler or a noh practitioner).

Yes, we idol fans and otaku are have stupid standards, but those aren't the standards that ordinary Japanese live by. Which is why people here are hoping Yamakan is going to take a bat to them with this show.

[cyth]

The problem is everyone thinks it's okay because it's an "image" industry. I can understand where the fans are coming from (that's because I took some pretty immature stances on this topic in the past), but they are ultimately wrong. Also, denouncing a yakuza expert just because you don't like what he has to say is just, I don't know what to say to that. Who is the expert and who is just some guy with an opinion? The right approach is to point out another expert who disagrees with him (also, make sure it's not some journalist hack), then you have my attention.