True Tears - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by ani_d

You know what's a perfect conclusion in all of this? Raigomaru and Jibeta both flying. LOL That would be the best ending this stupid story can give Noe. X_X

But this show is really cool actually--minus the fact that Hiromi being an emo queen annoyed me a bit. It's interesting to note that the thing that gives depth to the story is a children's picture book which is....ironic.



It's not like Shin doesn't feel anything for Noe at all. I mean, she's not like Ai. I wouldn't rule out Noe/Shin ending based on episode 10 because we all know episode 11 comes after that. For crying out loud, Hiromi kissed Shin already and what did Shin do? Acted like nothing happened and still had no clue that Noe broke up with him. Come on, dude. -_-

I'm not sure why because the typical ending to this show is definitely Hiromi/Shin. I think everyone can see that. Expectable. But I don't see anything wrong for peeps to hope that the writers will pull SOMETHING in the end and break away from the cliche ending--that's seems to be too trendy. That's also one of the reasons why I've hung around this far Maybe this show has more tricks up its sleeve. Maybe or maybe not.

Anyway, my take on the next episode is that Shin and Noe will have a proper farewell. =_= And that's me thinking the story will go to the typical ending route. *sigh*

The show has never broken from continuity and there has been one stable thing since TT began and that is Shin loves Hiromi. We were told that from the very first episode and honestly TT has not thrown a lot of curve balls. We dont know what Shin feels for Noe but we do know what he feels for Hiromi. As for his confusion about the kiss i would be confused too if i thought a girl was dating someone else and she kissed me. Shin still thinks that Hiromi is likes and is still dating Jun, he was not clear what happened with Noe because she was cryptic with what she said, lets be honest the guys not a guineas. TT has been pretty straight forward and has not deviated from the path it started on. To do so now would not make any sense added a shock and awe at the end of series where obviously everything has been leading up to a specific ending would not make any sense. All the signs are there we have them its just that the characters dont.

Noe is probably the best person in TT with figuring out peoples feelings even when they dont even know themselves. At the end of episode 11 the song she is signing ends with acknowledging that Hiromi is in Shins heart. That has not changed nor will it by 2 episodes. Why would Noe willingly take a guy who she knows is in love with someone else. Im not disputing that Shin cares for Noe because he obviously does, i just dont feel its the kind of romantic feelings that some are hoping for. Read relentlessflames post just above he points out a few things that i have omitted.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by ani_d

It's not like Shin doesn't feel anything for Noe at all. I mean, she's not like Ai. I wouldn't rule out Noe/Shin ending based on episode 10 because we all know episode 11 comes after that. For crying out loud, Hiromi kissed Shin already and what did Shin do? Acted like nothing happened and still had no clue that Noe broke up with him. Come on, dude. -_-

I'm not sure why because the typical ending to this show is definitely Hiromi/Shin. I think everyone can see that. Expectable. But I don't see anything wrong for peeps to hope that the writers will pull SOMETHING in the end and break away from the cliche ending--that's seems to be too trendy. That's also one of the reasons why I've hung around this far Maybe this show has more tricks up its sleeve. Maybe or maybe not.

Anyway, my take on the next episode is that Shin and Noe will have a proper farewell. =_= And that's me thinking the story will go to the typical ending route. *sigh*

Interestingly enough, I think Shin in this episode maybe represented himself as Jibeta instead of Raigomaru in this episode. After Hiromi kissed him they just cut away to Nobuse and Aiko before showing Shin arriving back home. Shin was shown still having a little smile on his face. He proceeded to draw about Jibeta flapping his wings violently and loudly even though it was raining outside. I think that represented Shin's feeling of happiness about Hiromi's kiss as Jibeta was probably eager to attempt to fly.

Later in the episode Shin saw Hiromi walk away from the park and was initially happy to see her until he noticed that Jun was there as well staring after Hiromi. The very next scene shows Shin drawing Jibeta attempting to fly but ending up falling and crashing into the ground. Even though Shin started drawing about Raigomaru and Jibeta because of Noe, it is clear that his thoughts and feelings for Hiromi is being reflected in what he has Raigomaru and Jibeta doing in his drawings. That's what Noe noticed at the end of episode 9 besides the other events of that episode that confirmed to Noe that Hiromi is the one that is in Shin's heart.

I think the writers know that an ending that makes more sense and is better supported by what the writers themselves have built up along the way will end up being more satisfying to more people. Continuity makes a more powerful impact in any ending because true love is'nt so fickle and the writers are trying to say that Shin and Hiromi's love for each other can withstand even the hardship of the lie that Shin's mother told Hiromi and the misunderstandings that have separated them because of it. Coming up with an ending that breaks away from that message leaves any alternate ending kind of hollow because it would lack the development behind that of the central theme of Shin attempting to be with the one he loves as defined by that first picture book scene in episode 1. There's a reason the writers have sent a strong consistent message throughout the show despite the little plot twists that have everyone confused and that's to add emotional impact and support for the ending. While some might find it boring I think it's better than an alternate ending that has far less support from the story because it would just feel wrong on multiple levels because of the disconnect from what the writers have built up so far.

I suggest that everyone who watches this show again to try to understand why it turned out this way should pay extra attention to the first few minutes of episode 1 because of the initial picture book scenes and then keep them in mind as they watch the rest of the series. If you want a little help interpreting them I wrote about the first two picture book scenes in the speculations and theories thread about a month ago in the middle of page 3 of that thread. Don't read it if you don't want to know about my interpretation of the meaning of the first two picture book scenes and how they relate to the rest of the story. The examples were based on up to episode 7 but I think the last few episodes have actually added more basis to that theory. The roles and motivations of Shin and Noe have remained consistent since the start. Hiromi's motivations have also remained consistent even though her motivations took longer to be revealed. There have been two major factors behind all of Hiromi's decisions, her love for Shin and the lie told by Shin's mother that painfully prevented her from doing anything about it. Since what Shin's mother told her has been shown as a lie Hiromi has opened up and become more cheerful like what she used to be before moving into Shin's house. I guess there's actually a third factor that would be the uneasiness that Hiromi feels about Shin's relationship with Noe.

I don't think Shin's picture book should really be considered finished until the last episode when he has resolved everything or is about to resolve everything. He still has issues he has to resolve so since the picture book has reflected his thoughts and feelings, I expect him to add a final scene in it closer to the end of the show.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The show has never broken from continuity and there has been one stable thing since TT began and that is Shin loves Hiromi. We were told that from the very first episode and honestly TT has not thrown a lot of curve balls. We dont know what Shin feels for Noe but we do know what he feels for Hiromi.

There you go. ^_^ You said it yourself. We "don't" actually know what Shin feels for Noe. So how does that contribute to the possibility of a Noe/Shin ending? Like I said, I wouldn't rule out Noe/Shin ending just because we were shown episode 10. While Hiromi ending is more possible, the chances of it happening is not really 100%, am I right? That's what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

for his confusion about the kiss i would be confused too if i thought a girl was dating someone else and she kissed me. Shin still thinks that Hiromi is likes and is still dating Jun, he was not clear what happened with Noe because she was cryptic with what she said, lets be honest the guys not a guineas.

If he's really 100% SO into Hiromi. Wouldn't that kiss bother him to death? Or he would ATLEAST think about it. The impression it gave me was, that kiss was disregarded. He didn't even seem confused. lol Basically, he acted like nothing happened. He was talking to her like he used to. He didn't even look like he's bouncing from cloud to cloud. Is it just me or am I the only one seeing something wrong with that? x_x The only reason I could think of as to why he'd feel that way was because of Noe. He couldn't completely go to Hiromi. Is this a solid proof of his love for Noe? No. Is this a proof that Hiromi is NOT the only person in Shin's airy head? Yes. So as you see, possibility is there. We can't rule NoexShin out--not yet.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

TT has been pretty straight forward and has not deviated from the path it started on. To do so now would not make any sense added a shock and awe at the end of series where obviously everything has been leading up to a specific ending would not make any sense. All the signs are there we have them its just that the characters dont.

I think I know where you're coming from, but if the path you're talking about is the path Shin has to take to "fly" towards Hiromi, then isn't that more of subjective than objective? If this show really is that straightforward, then do we really know for a fact who Jibeta and Raigomaru symbolize? We have speculations--and yes really good and rational speculations--about Shin's picture book. However, did the show really tell us the real meaning behind it all? Not yet. The picture book that seemed to tie in with Noe is another consistent element in this show. They just keep reinstating and reinstating the picture book in every episode. It's not like the Noe/Shin evidences came out of thin air. We don't know what Shin really feels for her. So why would a Noe ending be too farfetched and would not make sense? If done well, the writers can so pull this off.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Noe is probably the best person in TT with figuring out peoples feelings even when they dont even know themselves.

Subjective. ^_^

Originally Posted by Sinestra

At the end of episode 11 the song she is signing ends with acknowledging that Hiromi is in Shins heart. That has not changed nor will it by 2 episodes.

No offense, I think this is most likely too, but say that once you see episode 12 and actually hearing Shin's side of the boat, k?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Why would Noe willingly take a guy who she knows is in love with someone else. Im not disputing that Shin cares for Noe because he obviously does, i just dont feel its the kind of romantic feelings that some are hoping for. Read relentlessflames post just above he points out a few things that i have omitted.

So Noe has the "angel" role, Hiromi is the sniveler and Shin is the chicken who can't fly in order to give some Kleenex tissue to Hiromi. That's my initial speculation as well, but in the end, it's nothing but speculations. Is Noe really destined to cry true tears? haha How about Noe's sadness? Will this show really make her a sacrificial lamb for Hiromi and Shin's happiness?? Is that really it? LOL We don't know. So we can't rule out possibilities. It just kind of irritates the debater in me when possibilities are shot down. If this eppie is another episode like 10, then I wouldn't say this, but episode 11 just tells us this show can go in other directions other than HiromixShin and it wouldn't be farfetched. Shin can even choose not to pursue a romantic relationship with Hiromi for goodness sake.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by cloudninja

Interestingly enough, I think Shin in this episode maybe represented himself as Jibeta instead of Raigomaru in this episode.

I think your speculation does make sense. It would be a nice twist if Raigomaru is not really Shin and is actually Jibeta. That'd be cool.

I just noticed, right when Shin finished off Jibeta in his picture book, Noe took Jibeta for a walk saying he could fly. lol

[tejvenim]

Originally Posted by ani_d

If he's really 100% SO into Hiromi. Wouldn't that kiss bother him to death? Or he would ATLEAST think about it. The impression it gave me was, that kiss was disregarded. He didn't even seem confused. lol Basically, he acted like nothing happened.

Spoiler for Shin:

Look at this screenshot of Shin arriving at home after the kiss by Hiromi. (around 6:39)

He smiled and blushed and seemed to be in a very good mood.

Obviously he felt great about the kiss offered by Hiromi. He went back to his own house and is still thinking about the kiss offered by Hiromi. This is a kiss by Hiromi, the girl he likes very much, very different from Aiko's kiss. He was shocked when Aiko kissed him, but this time is pure sweetness because the kiss came from Hiromi, the girl he likes very much.

Just that he is a dork, so he didn't show strong reactions towards the kiss.

This scene is only a few seconds, so many people may have missed it.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by tejvenim

Spoiler for Shin:

Look at this screenshot of Shin arriving at home after the kiss by Hiromi. (around 6:39)

He smiled and blushed and seemed to be in a very good mood.

Obviously he felt great about the kiss offered by Hiromi. He went back to his own house and is still thinking about the kiss offered by Hiromi. This is a kiss by Hiromi, the girl he likes very much, very different from Aiko's kiss. He was shocked when Aiko kissed him, but this time is pure sweetness because the kiss came from Hiromi, the girl he likes very much.

Just that he is a dork, so he didn't show strong reactions towards the kiss.

This scene is only a few seconds, so many people may have missed it.

Wow, that's a great find; no one's discussed that yet (I think).

[golthin]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Wow, that's a great find; no one's discussed that yet (I think).

because most people saw it! Other people knew that shin is a guy with delay reactions (his reaction to aiko's kiss was also delayed) as we have seen in previous episodes.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Wow, that's a great find; no one's discussed that yet (I think).

I noticed that he had a little smile on his face when he came back home. He then put his feelings into his picture book by having Jibeta flap his wings loudly and violently despite the rain outside. That represents Shin wanting to fly because of that kiss. I think I wrote something similar to that effect a little earlier.

[b0nyb0y]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who notice that both Hiromi and Shin are glad to have that kiss together. Like other people said in previous pages, the move that led to such kiss came very naturally. And the fact that he wore a natural thin smile when returning home is a proof for that.

Though I understand that he dazed out thinking of Noe a little earlier, a closer look at the scene will reveal that as he stopped dazing, he unconsciously stared at Hiromi... and I mean a really, really hard stare, first just the whole face, then another zooming right into her eyes. And when she glanced and move forward, he was still staring.. up to the point where the lips met. So, I don't think Shin's mind was occupied by the thought of Noe when the two kissed, since his mind already threw the worry about Noe away when seeing Hiromi up close.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

I noticed that he had a little smile on his face when he came back home. He then put his feelings into his picture book by having Jibeta flap his wings loudly and violently despite the rain outside. That represents Shin wanting to fly because of that kiss.

That's true. I'm not really sold yet on that Jibeta-Shin connection, since it seems to run counter to the fact that Shin was still acting far more like Raigomaru and Noe like Jibeta.

Everything from the previous 10 episodes has inked and solidified the Shin=Raigomaru characteristics so there might be something else going on with respect to Jibeta.

I think it's more of Shin and Noe in ep 11 are imposing their views on what they think Jibeta should do, but still with respect to Jibeta representing Noe.

The main reason I think this is because he says "Raigomaru was still composed" beside the Jibeta that was flapping during the rain. I think that represents Shin/Raigomaru still waiting for everything to come together (and possibly hiding his angst about not being able to do much), while Jibeta/Noe is antsy and wants something to happen since Shin/Raigomaru is slowly drifting apart from them.

That matches the ending where Noe is nearly about to force Jibeta to fly. It also explains the issue of Shin's lack of moving things forward in this episode, since he's still waiting despite wanting to be able to something for Hiromi and Noe to bring this to a conclusion.

And of course the first take on the ending would have to be Jibeta/Noe crashing down, which is a rather stark ending in a sense if he's really attributing a total collapse as such, but I think it still works in the context of Raigomaru/Shin taking a lesson from it.

Although Jibeta could be a Shin of a different form or maybe a Shin before he channels Raigomaru, it's hard to resolve Shin being Raigomaru and Jibeta as Noe imposed the Raigomaru tie from the beginning...

[ApostleOfGod]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I am truly curious what your basing that on? Because if your going by the last episode your in for a huge disappointment.

Ending diverted everything. I'm still pretty sure that Hiromi is going to end up with Shin, as "True Tears" and various other clues given throughout the show will fall into its places as well. However, I'm saying that the way Episode 11 ended just created more paths and ways (all different possibilities) which the show can now lead to. Especially with the tension and all the issues happening, at 2 episodes left, things can significantly change. I know it ain't happening, but there's always the possibilities of it somehow working out to be Noe/Shin due to the way Episode 11 was concluded.

I'm not in for any disappointments. It was fully explained from the very first episode that Shin is in love with Hiromi. Even in episode 6, with the relationship between the two happening would result in incest, I didn't bother asking myself anything but "How will they get themselves out of this sticky?"

I want to see more and I want to see how far and how close they will try to sway the audience and lead us astray. Episode 11's done that Extremely well for me. However, the development of Shin and Hiromi up until this episode, together with the Hiromi kiss from this episode, pretty much sums things up. So no, I'm not expecting them to pull a magic trick, but the way the show's been conducted so far is brilliant and very intriguing.

Oh, and also, Ai kissed Shin first, and she got eliminated first. Noe has never kissed him, and Hiromi's made the move this episode. Now how will things go from here? I wonder...
Will Noe join the club and add the final touch? Lol

Edit: Just reading the kiss posts above, seeing as how I totally missed this page while responding -_-..

That kiss was soft. It was coming, but I didn't expect it. True Tears has that effect on me of surprising me with things both obvious and unexpected.

[b0nyb0y]

I still believe that it's Raigomaru that represents Shin. For the last couple of episodes, you'll see that Shin keeps repeating the same line. The line that when Raigomaru thinks of flying, his stomach grumbles, so he put off the flight for the next day. Yet, once Shin got the kiss from Hiromi, he stopped repeating that line. Shin starts narrating about Raigomaru stopped trying to take flight, and is content being just an ordinary chicken. In fact, in the subs I read, it says that Raigomaru "stays quiet and composed" despite the rain outside. And it was just Jibeta that got frustrated and flaps wings violently. To me, it clearly indicates something about Shin. He definitely feels at ease once he had that kiss.

So, at this point, I'm not even sure who Jibeta is. If in the picture book it was Jibeta that tried to take flight, and in reality it was Noe that wants to fly away from it all AND carrying Jibeta to the sea to let it takes flight, maybe Jibeta actually represents Noe after all?

[Guardian Enzo]

I'm surprised not to see more discussion of Hiromi's comment to Jun which was, after all, the episode title. I mean - if those two really are siblings, well...

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by vio5555

That's true. I'm not really sold yet on that Jibeta-Shin connection, since it seems to run counter to the fact that Shin was still acting far more like Raigomaru and Noe like Jibeta.

Everything from the previous 10 episodes has inked and solidified the Shin=Raigomaru characteristics so there might be something else going on with respect to Jibeta.

I think it's more of Shin and Noe in ep 11 are imposing their views on what they think Jibeta should do, but still with respect to Jibeta representing Noe.

The main reason I think this is because he says "Raigomaru was still composed" beside the Jibeta that was flapping during the rain. I think that represents Shin/Raigomaru still waiting for everything to come together (and possibly hiding his angst about not being able to do much), while Jibeta/Noe is antsy and wants something to happen since Shin/Raigomaru is slowly drifting apart from them.

That matches the ending where Noe is nearly about to force Jibeta to fly. It also explains the issue of Shin's lack of moving things forward in this episode, since he's still waiting despite wanting to be able to something for Hiromi and Noe to bring this to a conclusion.

And of course the first take on the ending would have to be Jibeta/Noe crashing down, which is a rather stark ending in a sense if he's really attributing a total collapse as such, but I think it still works in the context of Raigomaru/Shin taking a lesson from it.

Although Jibeta could be a Shin of a different form or maybe a Shin before he channels Raigomaru, it's hard to resolve Shin being Raigomaru and Jibeta as Noe imposed the Raigomaru tie from the beginning...

I think Shin at various times thinks he could be either Raigomaru or Jibeta. I think at one point he thought he was unworthy of being Raigomaru because he remembers Noe saying something like "You're just like Raigomaru. Gallant, grand, shining". He does'nt feel that he is gallant or grand so at those times he might consider himself as Jibeta instead. In the end I think he will be Raigomaru because he will be able to fly.

Anyway, in this episode his feelings about Hiromi are actually matched by what Jibeta does. After the kiss, Shin draws Jibeta as furiously flapping his wings as if wanting to fly while Raigomaru is calm and still. After seeing Hiromi and Jun at the park, he draws Jibeta as attempting to fly but crashing which could reflect his feelings after seeing Hiromi and Jun at the park.

On the other hand you could be right that he is still Raigomaru in this episode but I wonder why Raigomaru is quiet and composed while Shin is feeling happy. At this point he was still thinking of Hiromi so he was less likely to be thinking of Noe during this particular scene.

In the later picture book scene, Jibeta is shown trying to fly but crashing. This was right after seeing Hiromi and Jun at the park so the timing indicates he was thinking more of himself in regards to Hiromi just like the earlier picture right after he came home from the kiss. The thing is if Noe is Jibeta why would she try to fly when she is always just telling him that she wants him to fly. I don't remember Noe herself saying that she wanted to fly except for the very end of this episode when she was in the chicken coop but Shin would'nt have known about it yet. That's why it's puzzling that in this episode if Shin thinks Noe is Jibeta why is he having her attempting to fly when I don't think she told him before that she wanted to fly. Especially since he drew that right after seeing Hiromi and Jun.

Anyway, it's starting to get more confusing now. When did Jibeta want to start flying anyway? Was'nt it always Raigomaru before until this episode? And Shin did'nt see Noe in this episode until the very end.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

I think Shin at various times thinks he could be either Raigomaru or Jibeta. I think at one point he thought he was unworthy of being Raigomaru because he remembers Noe saying something like "You're just like Raigomaru. Gallant, grand, shining". He does'nt feel that he is gallant or grand so at those times he might consider himself as Jibeta instead. In the end I think he will be Raigomaru because he will be able to fly.

Anyway, in this episode his feelings about Hiromi are actually matched by what Jibeta does. After the kiss, Shin draws Jibeta as furiously flapping his wings as if wanting to fly while Raigomaru is calm and still. After seeing Hiromi and Jun at the park, he draws Jibeta as attempting to fly but crashing which could reflect his feelings after seeing Hiromi and Jun at the park.

That's fair.

I think one thing that's very interesting though is that Noe thinks she completely understands Shin at the end of 11 (largely as she has throughout) as she's singing that song and says what she's says about him; that's exactly the opposite of what she says about Jibeta before that, which is that she cannot understand Jibeta's feelings, and it perfectly mirrors what she said about herself a few episodes before when she was at home feeling the heartaches over Shin.

Also, the way she's acting recently does make me think she is confused about what she's supposed to do with her feelings as she watches Shin, and I think that's what she's attempting to channel through Jibeta by staying the chicken coop and trying to understand Jibeta.

But of course, both Noe and Shin have to apply their own meanings to Raigomaru and Jibeta, so I think there may be some wiggle room for Shin's interpretation.

However, I think Noe's interpretation is almost set into stone that Shin is Raigomaru and she is Jibeta in a way.

[ZODDGUTS]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I'm surprised not to see more discussion of Hiromi's comment to Jun which was, after all, the episode title. I mean - if those two really are siblings, well...

I wonder if this leads to Jun asking Noe for a kiss which we hear him saying that to someone (Noe?)... if so wonder how she would react.

[b0nyb0y]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I'm surprised not to see more discussion of Hiromi's comment to Jun which was, after all, the episode title. I mean - if those two really are siblings, well...

Well, maybe it's because we all know that Jun only cares of Noe that it doesn't need much discussion. Besides Noe, the rest of the Jun-Hiromi/Shin-Noe pairings are largely about the contract that Jun and Shin made anyway.

As for Jun being in this whole mess, beside wanting Noe to be happy, I believe he unconsciously tried to get away from the feelings he has for Noe as well. And I think those terse lines given to him brought him a big realization. He finally sees that though he was setting himself up with Hiromi, all his course of actions still has Noe as the focal point. So his attempt to hide away from his true feelings failed miserably.

And just think about the timing Hiromi delivering those lines. He was trying to diverted the conversation with the move that worked before. The hand-on-her-face move used to throw Hiromi off balance, and Jun intentionally used it with the thought that it will quickly end the conversation with Hiromi going all flustered. Yet you can readily see Hiromi's moment of clarity in her eyes, that she has her feelings resolved, and that she won't let Jun has an upper hand anymore. To me, after seeing her getting all depressed for so many episodes, it was a little unexpected for her to be such a strong girl.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I'm surprised not to see more discussion of Hiromi's comment to Jun which was, after all, the episode title. I mean - if those two really are siblings, well...

It's more of a we're waiting and seeing approach since the main effect of her 3 powerful lines was to totally sever her connection with him and wake him up to the possibilities that he's really been fooling himself by his actions throughout the series.

To me, those 3 lines are among Hiromi's strongest in the series and may well remain that way to the end, especially if Jun acts on it in episode 12.

At this point though, what exactly is there to discuss; the taboo of incest? I don't even really think that relates here since it's not like the anime would be promoting it anyways in a real life sense. Just take it for what it is, a very deep relationship that's built on Jun trying to protect her from everything, while perhaps hiding his true feelings; there's no need to really consider the "oh what if they have kids with bad genes" or whatnot.

I'm not trying to attribute these views to you; I'm just saying that on face value, we have to just accept Jun's true feelings, which Hiromi seems to have totally nailed down at this point. We also have to probably accept that Noe probably doesn't even think of him as anything other than a big brother who takes care of her...

(Well I guess it worked, you seem to have stirred up the discussion on the topic )

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by b0nyb0y

And just think about the timing Hiromi delivering those lines. He was trying to diverted the conversation with the move that worked before. The hand-on-her-face move used to throw Hiromi off balance, and Jun intentionally used it with the thought that it will quickly end the conversation with Hiromi going all flustered. Yet you can readily see Hiromi's moment of clarity in her eyes, that she has her feelings resolved, and that she won't let Jun has an upper hand anymore. To me, after seeing her getting all depressed for so many episodes, it was a little unexpected for her to be such a strong girl.

It's nice to see Hiromi free of the lie that Shin's mother told her. She seems much more cheerful now. I kind of expected it since it was Shin who said to himself in episode 1 that she was so cheerful before moving into Shin's house. She sees a much clearer path to Shin than before with the exception of Shin's relationship with Noe. At least she does'nt have to worry about them being siblings anymore and now that she's living on her own she has a sense of freedom she did'nt have before having to live under the eyes of Shin's parents, especially his mother.

[Guardian Enzo]

Have we really come so far that full-fledged SisCon in an otherwise mainstream HS romance doesn't bat an eye? Because it's hard to interpret Hiromi's statement any other way.

Well - I suppose anything Jun related is really the sideshow anyway. It's all about Shin x Hiromi at this point and really since the beginning, truth be told.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Have we really come so far that full-fledged SisCon in an otherwise mainstream HS romance doesn't bat an eye? Because it's hard to interpret Hiromi's statement any other way.

Well - I suppose anything Jun related is really the sideshow anyway. It's all about Shin x Hiromi at this point and really since the beginning, truth be told.

Well, I can't say I was really surprised when it comes to Jun; that might explain my offhanded lack of care in some sense.

From the first few episodes it just seemed as if everything and anything Jun did had something to do with Noe. Heck, he even scopes out Ai walking with Shin and makes that whole deal with him. Everything just seemed offbase from there for me, so I just figured that he was doing all of this for her.

I think what Hiromi said pretty much encapsulates that; everything Jun sees has an eye towards doing those things for Noe.

Maybe what Hiromi said can shake him out of it or something, but either way, I think Jun has to realize what he's been doing and why he's been doing it...

After all, I still maintain that he's a part of the reason Noe is such an incomplete person, since he's been overprotecting her in a sense and hasn't let her come to terms with feelings like love and loss.