The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Kyon

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by Heatth

I totally agree with you.

Spoiler for Vol. 9:

The 'not close yet thinking about her every few days' sound similar to when he tells Taniguchi (in the first book) he is not remotelly interested in Haruhi, but spend the first moth of his High School Life paying attention in her odditys and asking Taniguchi about her. I really don't trust Kyon here.

Btw, I never have noticied the similaritys between Kyon first talk with Sasaki and his first talk with Haruhi. You are absolutelly right. Nice thinking.

The only problem with this kind of thinking is why he only call her by her surname, not by her name, like she does with Haruhi (pretty much since they first met).

IIRC Kyon didn't call Haruhi by her given name until after the Haruhi's dream event in the last part of Melancholy.



My point is at that time he's pretty sure that Haruhi has some feelings for him.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by freakonboard

IIRC Kyon didn't call Haruhi by her given name until after the Haruhi's dream event in the last part of Melancholy.


My point is at that time he's pretty sure that Haruhi has some feelings for him.

Are you sure? I don't ever remember he caling her 'Suzumiya' either.

Btw, there is something very wrong with the link of that images.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Kyon pretty much used "Haruhi" from the start.

Spoiler for the stuff that's been in recent spoiler tags:

Tanigawa never came up with a given name for Sasaki. If he did, Kyon probably would've mentioned it during the scene where Haruhi and her met. The point of the scene was to give Haruhi a rival of sorts, and a girl that's on a first name basis with Kyon would've been a good setup.

At least, that's how I see it.

[typhonsentra]

No, in actual conversation he indeed started with calling her "Suzumiya", at least when he spoke her name aloud. During the first "Mikuru Rape", he shouted "Su-Suzumiya!". It might be hard to catch but he doesn't start calling her Haruhi to her face until later in the book.

[freakonboard]

Here's screenshot with sub form Melancholy 3 and Baka-Tsuki's translation chapter 5 excerpt.


"Say, Suzumiya. Do you know the story of the 'Blue Bird of Happiness'?"


It's common in Japan to call each other by family name, unless they are very close.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

No, in actual conversation he indeed started with calling her "Suzumiya", at least when he spoke her name aloud. During the first "Mikuru Rape", he shouted "Su-Suzumiya!". It might be hard to catch but he doesn't start calling her Haruhi to her face until later in the book.

Originally Posted by freakonboard

Here's screenshot with sub form Melancholy 3 and Baka-Tsuki's translation chapter 5 excerpt.


"Say, Suzumiya. Do you know the story of the 'Blue Bird of Happiness'?"


It's common in Japan to call each other by family name, unless they are very close.

I see, thank-you you two. Oddly, he sees to reffer to her as 'Haruhi' since the begining. Using 'Suzumiya' only few times, whn directly speaking to her. This might be why I get confused.

This also open a new question. Is the narration really his toughts? Or he is telling/writing it from the future?

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Spoiler for the stuff that's been in recent spoiler tags:

Tanigawa never came up with a given name for Sasaki. If he did, Kyon probably would've mentioned it during the scene where Haruhi and her met. The point of the scene was to give Haruhi a rival of sorts, and a girl that's on a first name basis with Kyon would've been a good setup.

At least, that's how I see it.

Spoiler for same:

I don't believe it. He came with a name even to Mori and Kimidori. And Kyoko and Suou are less important then she and still have names. I think there is a reason to why Sasaki don't have a name. Maybe Kyon is trying to keep a distance from her, for some reason.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Spoiler for same:

I don't believe it. He came with a name even to Mori and Kimidori. And Kyoko and Suou are less important then she and still have names. I think there is a reason to why Sasaki don't have a name. Maybe Kyon is trying to keep a distance from her, for some reason.

Spoiler for ...:

Kimidori seems to be a regular as of Vol8 and Mori is awesome enough to deserve a full name.
Tachibana is in two main stories, and will be in a third whenever Volume 10 is released.
Suou is connected with a group that has taken down Nagato at least once, so I'd say she's pretty important as well.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Spoiler for ...:

Kimidori seems to be a regular as of Vol8 and Mori is awesome enough to deserve a full name.
Tachibana is in two main stories, and will be in a third whenever Volume 10 is released.
Suou is connected with a group that has taken down Nagato at least once, so I'd say she's pretty important as well.

Spoiler for ...?:

Tsuruya is both regular and awesome, and yet don't have a name. What she is, however, is irrelevant to the story (at last so far). I don't Say Kyoko and Suou are unimportant, but I don't think they are more then Sasaki. Their debut in the story had less impact, at last.

I beleive Fujiwara don't have a name for a similar purpose. He is important enough but still don't have one. However, seeing how he mentioned the issue it is likely to be a (small)plot point.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Spoiler for ...!:

Fujiwara lacks a name period. That's an alias.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Spoiler for ...!:

Fujiwara lacks a name period. That's an alias.

Spoiler for ...¿:

The same could be said to Mikuru, tough, probably. Anyway, he name, or lack of one, is likely to become importnat, as it was mentioned already.

[Khu]

Spoiler for ....:

Lol. Stop it you guys seriously XD
Does everything needs spoiler tags?

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Khu

Spoiler for ....:

Lol. Stop it you guys seriously XD
Does everything needs spoiler tags?

Spoiler for ¨¨:

We had already stoped 14 hours ago. And the spoiler tags are needed for everything that didn't appear in the anime yet.

[Khu]

Oh...

Carry on then.

[Hell_ping]

Spoiler for ...:

Even for a name like Kyon, to spread such a nickname so fast that literally everyone calls him that. Either rumors travel really fast in the Haruhi-verse, or he just edits it out, since he's the narrator, even though he most probably wishes for people to call him by his actual name...

This so feels like yu-gi-oh, where the name of the protagonist is the key to winning the war...

[Tornadium]

Originally Posted by sacundim

[spoiler]
Anyway, we've discussed Kyon's awareness of Haruhi's feelings toward him a few weeks ago. This is the link to my post on the topic, but to summarize:

Spoiler for Sighs II, Live Alive, novel 9:

Kyon's narration shows well before novel 9 that he knows that Haruhi's got feelings for him, and that he's concerned about what she might do if she gets jealous over him. His denial of this to Koizumi is just obfuscating obliviousness.

Well It's pretty much a given at this point that Kyon knows Haruhi has feelings for him. His denial and subsequent contradictory actions tend to hint at his true feelings rather than those expressed.

I must say that I think that this thread has recently taken a bit too much of a Kyon x Haruhi shipping bent. The way I see it, we've got to take Kyon's failure to pursue Haruhi at face value (more so considering the spoiler above) and just say that she just annoys him too much.

It has nothing to do with Shipping really. The Majority of the Haruhi fanbase agree that this is the most likely Canon ending so therefore we are discussing it. The problem with your arguement is..Well that Kyon doesn't need to pursue Haruhi at face value he already has her in his hands. He just needs to take the chance. Oh and by Book 9 he pretty much admits he loves what Haruhi does and isn't really annoyed by her. Hell he loves the weird things she does.

Even he starts to come around to the idea in Book 9, beforehand he would never even admit it. It's character development really.

I'd say that so far in the story, Kyon would prefer a relationship with Asahina more than with any of the other girls—and the relationship would fail, on many grounds.

Openly Kyon would say himself he would prefer a relationship with Mikuru, However we already know that it really isn't the case. He finds Haruhi much more interesting than he does Mikuru. Mikuru is basically his "white knight" crush and nothing more.

Haruhi and Kyon is basically pushed at every possibility while everything else is totally ignored in terms of development or even internal referencing.

More generally, I think that Kyon and the three girls would have to develop and mature more for any of the pairings to work. We're not going to see any couples in this series until we see some more important character development happen.

Yea i totally agree, The only one at this point which COULD happen in Book 10 would be Haruhi and Kyon although that would have to be written very well for it to work. The rest...Oh man they would be so pathetic and forced it's unreal.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Taking anything Kyon says about how he feels at face value is an exercise in futility.

Case in point:

Spoiler for Up to Vol. 9:

Sasaki.

Kyon tells the readers he has no feelings for her other than as a "not close" friend, but...

He says in an earlier book that he "thinks about her once every few days". Is that normal for a person you didn't even consider to be "close" to, for someone you haven't contacted in over a year?

And his dream sequence/flashback later in Vol. 9 reeks to me of a guy simply trying to impress a girl he's crushing on... which, note, is the same way he behaves towards Haruhi the first time he tries talking to her.

I view the whole thing with Sasaki as Kyon being emo about failing to enter a relationship with her and thus refusing to contact her again, since he get couldn't what he wanted.

Also note that Haruhi and Sasaki are physically similar.

Just food for thought.

Two other things: a) KyonxMikuru has pretty much been impossible from the beginning, and if you don't believe that Kyon, at the very least, cares about Haruhi a hell of a lot, you need to read Vol. 4 again.

Totally agreed with the entire post.

Especially the last point.

Disapperance and the subsequent novels is really where the serious development starts (Since TMoHS Ep 6 at the very least). That and Kyon is a CLASSIC unreliable narrator. Attempting to piece his true feelings and intentions without taking in the Hints and subtle additions is just inconcieveable.

[typhonsentra]

I think the biggest tell on Kyon's true feelings for Sasaki was something she said in passing during her second meeting with him in Chapter 1.

Spoiler:

Something along the lines of "You of all people should know I've never given anyone to care about me."

This coupled with him on "Impulse" telling her she's attractive in Chapter 3, I'm thinking he was either shot down or she was painfully aware he had feelings but never acknowledged them.

[quigonkenny]

Re: Heatth & Kogetsu name discussion...

Spoiler for volumes 9 and 8.:

Tsuruya doesn't have a full name because she doesn't have "awezum powerz" (beyond the whole Batman thing, of course). Sasaki doesn't have a full name because by the end of her part of the story she won't have any powers either. It's like the Nakagawa thing from Charmed at First Sight LOVER. "Fujiwara" has an obviously fake alias because whether he will have powers at the end of things is in flux. Either he'll be stripped of his powers by Kyon not choosing his side, and keep just his alias (and I'll finally drop the quotes), or he'll end up keeping his abilities somehow and we'll find out his full name (likely only in whichever timeline doesn't survive the end of Volume 10). The rest have their full names because they do have powers (even though we haven't seen hint of Mori's yet).

Tanigawa gives his "special" characters full names and his "normal" characters nicknames or only reveals their family name or title. this has been true from the beginning, and the only "exceptions" can so far be explained by either lack of reader knowledge or in-story changes, as suggested above.

[Triple_R]

Tornadium - This is my current take on Kyon's approach to Haruhi...

I think that the author has skillfully set things up so that he can believably go with out a romance being set up between them, or with a romance set up between them.


If it doesn't happen, he can say "Well, Kyon obviously snarks a lot about Haruhi. She really does annoy him a lot at times. He can tolerate that in a friend, but not in a life partner."


If it does happen, he can say "Well, as many Haruhi fans point out, Kyon is an unreliable narrator. Hence, a lot of what he narrates and says you can't take at face value."


So... he's left it open to either 'play it straight' (mostly anyway) or 'play it self-deceiving' (mostly anyway).

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Re: Heatth & Kogetsu name discussion...

Spoiler for volumes 9 and 8.:

Tsuruya doesn't have a full name because she doesn't have "awezum powerz" (beyond the whole Batman thing, of course). Sasaki doesn't have a full name because by the end of her part of the story she won't have any powers either. It's like the Nakagawa thing from Charmed at First Sight LOVER. "Fujiwara" has an obviously fake alias because whether he will have powers at the end of things is in flux. Either he'll be stripped of his powers by Kyon not choosing his side, and keep just his alias (and I'll finally drop the quotes), or he'll end up keeping his abilities somehow and we'll find out his full name (likely only in whichever timeline doesn't survive the end of Volume 10). The rest have their full names because they do have powers (even though we haven't seen hint of Mori's yet).

Tanigawa gives his "special" characters full names and his "normal" characters nicknames or only reveals their family name or title. this has been true from the beginning, and the only "exceptions" can so far be explained by either lack of reader knowledge or in-story changes, as suggested above.

You forgot 'Mikuru Asahina' is also most probably a fake name. I would agree with you few books ago. However

Spoiler for Book7-9:

Fujiwara prooves that, at last now, not every powered character has a name

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Heatth

You forgot 'Mikuru Asahina' is also most probably a fake name. I would agree with you few books ago. However

Spoiler for Book7-9:

Fujiwara prooves that, at last now, not every powered character has a name

You forgot the "r" in your initial spoiler tag. Please fix it.

Spoiler for Volumes 9 and 8:

Whether "Mikuru Asahina" is her real name or not doesn't matter one whit to the story. Everyone refers to her as such, and she has identified herself as such, both now and in the future, so as far the story is concerned, she is Mikuru Asahina. For that matter, it's the same with Itsuki Koizumi.

One of the few things we do know about "Fujiwara" is that his name is not "Fujiwara". It may be similar, or based on something related to the name "Fujiwara" (one of the great houses of Japanese nobility), but that is not his real name. It is a way for Tanigawa to obfuscate future developments and wink at his naming structure without outright breaking that structure. If he stuck him with a solid descriptive name (like "Sneering Bastard", which he was called by the fans until Volume 9) or made any suggestion that "Fujiwara" was (part of) his real name, that would tip off the fans that he will be losing his powers by the end of his appearance, a la Nakagawa in Charmed at First Sight LOVER. Similarly, if Tanigawa came right out and gave him a full name, we'd know that he'll be keeping his powers (and that he actually has any real powers, and isn't just an overly snarky Criss Angel wannabe with a time travel "hook").