2009-06-19, 21:18
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Link #1585 |
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I think there are only two mentions of Ange in the whole 4 family meetings we have seen. One is in the picture sento has shown, the other happens between Rosa and Kyrie when they say they should be friendely because they are both the mothers of two children.
There are also a few cases that show quite some lack of consideration for Ange. One is this: There is another during the pic nic at the sea, when George Maria and Jessica all agree that "this is the best family meeting in six years" and that it's a lot funnier when Battler is with them. In other words: Ange sucks. Kinzo never mentions Ange, not even to talk ill about her. The cousins never mention her, the servants never mention her.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2018-06-17 at 21:04. |
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2009-06-19, 21:40
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Link #1587 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Or maybe she, like Asumu, was left in the shadows, being mentioned only briefly, to show up as an important piece later? XD
EDIT: You know...There would be 2 things that would really help us out: 1. A compilation of all Red Text. 2. A wiki kind of thing for solid theories/facts. |
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2009-06-19, 21:45
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Link #1588 |
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well I do have the feeling that Ryukishi intentionally avoided to mention her too much so that the players would forget about her. However the outcome is pretty awkward, because it really looks as if nobody cares about her absence and nobody really remembers her except for a a person or two.
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2009-06-19, 22:03
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Link #1589 |
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The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I wouldn't be surprised if Asumu shows up in the answer arcs. With EP 4 too much mystery concerns her overall now. For example, does anybody even know how she died? She died suddenly, but what exactly caused that death? I doubt it was just 'old age' or something like that and it's never even discussed at all.
Also, I looked back on EP 2. Rosa is acting weird... Rosa's thoughts: "How long has this unknown witch been living on this island?! I used to live on this island. I lived on this island, passing the time in the mansion, in the rose garden. And even so, I never encountered a witch like that, ......never, ......supposedly............" I find it odd that in EP 3 she seemed certain about meeting a witch named Beatrice, but in EP 2 she's completely bewildered at the thought of a witch living on the island for so long and visiting Maria every year. |
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2009-06-19, 22:12
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Link #1590 |
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Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Could it be that she wasn't born yet during the last family meeting with Battler? Thus not all the relative even know her and could easily forget about her? She's only six years old. Assuming she's even been to one at all that is.
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2009-06-19, 22:22
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Link #1591 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 35
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Quote:
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2009-06-19, 22:25
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Link #1592 | |||
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
Nothing has been said about Asumu's death. However the red truth about Battler's sin is suspicious. Beatrice said that because of his sin a person died. and then she says that because of his sin people die in Rokkenjima. It looks that it is relevant that distinction between that person that died at the time of the sin and the persons who die in the 1986. I think there is a good chance that Battler's sin is somehow connected to Asumu's death. Quote:
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2009-06-19, 22:29
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Link #1594 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Btw, what if we apply the 'Jessica is Beatrice' theory to Episode 4?
She died with her head split open; However, her body wasn't confirmed until everyone else besides Battler was dead. My 'Kinzo' theory stands well here as well, with Battler and Jessica being murderers that were not necessarily in cahoots, and Battler being 'Kinzo'. The 'Kumasawa is the original Beatrice Kinzo loved' theory has some merit in this episode as well, er....wait. Can the storage room be opened from the inside? If it can, Kumasawa loses alibi for a long, long time. Er....Now that I've said it, I'm not so sure about this one, but I wasn't the hugest fan of this theory anyway. |
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2009-06-19, 22:52
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Link #1597 |
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Umineko and Mabinogi fan~
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 42
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I'm not saying they forgot Ange persay, just that she's at an age where people don't really care if she's there or not.
Maria isn't much older, that's true, but she's still old enough to make an impression. Anyways, that's just my take on things. |
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2009-06-19, 23:01
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Link #1598 |
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There are actually many factors that would point to Jessica as a possible Beatrice.
-She is one of the few persons that could successfully disguise herself as Beatrice and trick Battler from afar. -The Beatrice's past shown at the start of episode3 can perfectly match with Jessica if you place Kumasawa instead of Virgilia. -The mariage sorciere looks like a child game, and the most probable person that could join such a club is Jessica, with Shannon as second choice (kanon wasn't there yet) -Jessica and Beatrice share an unique facial expression (the "mu" face, see the picture I posted just a while ago), however Kinzo and Battler also share an unique expression. The problem with Jessica is that she's almost always near Battler and therefore she got a perfect alibi in most of the murders. Also Jessica denied witches in front of Maria and Maria was very displeased. It's hard to believe that Maria knows that Jessica is Beatrice, because she's treating her as someone who doesn't know a thing about magic. There's however the possibility that Jessica disguised herself, but I don't think Maria is that stupid. Another possibility is that Jessica has a dual personality (this is somehow confirmed by Jessica herself on episode1, as she states that having different personalities is somewhat normal) and Maria truly believes that there can be two completely different persons in a single body as in the case of her mother.
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2009-06-19, 23:05
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Link #1599 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The fact that Battler is almost always covering for Jessica's alibi is why I put up the theory of the possibility that Jessica and Battler were both murderers, although not necessarily in cahoots. To disprove your theory, I'm going to have to put them in cahoots though, with a betrayal at a certain point at which Battler killed Jessica.
Hm. I think a disguise is perfectly possible; A change in hairstyle, dressing, and speech combined can have a sufficient effect for a young child I think. Maria wouldn't believe someone claiming to be Beatrice would be the very person who denied Beatrice before, Jessica, if the disguise wasn't that good. Also, this WAS in the rain you know. Although they were close to each other, vision was probably not helping the situation. I think Jessica dual-personality+change in appearance(clothing) makes for a pretty solid wall that'll be hard to knock down. |
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2009-06-19, 23:09
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Link #1600 |
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別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well... you'd need to put George in there as well, because usually the three are always together. I personally thinks that the probability that Battler is involved in the crimes is very low. In episode3 it is even denied in red.
Ah btw Jessica=Beatrice can explain the red marks on Natsuhi's door on episode1. And I forgot to mention the possibility that "Beatrice" doesn't have anything to do with the murders.
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