2014-08-06, 11:21 | Link #1601 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Making up some silly bullshit reason why it can somehow be removed in UBW and solves all her issues, but not in HF completely undermines major plot points of HF and makes the majority of the roué worthless. It means Shirou shouldn't have made any o the choices he did in HF because UBW is a better ending for everyone involved since he didn't need to let thousands of people die in order to save her nor risk the entire world. Sure if you want to degrade the message and purpose of HF through saving Sakura in UBW go right ahead not like I cared much for the route outside of Kotomine. |
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2014-08-06, 11:24 | Link #1602 | |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Last edited by GreyZone; 2014-08-06 at 12:34. Reason: typo |
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2014-08-06, 12:20 | Link #1604 | ||
Arturia X Tamamo is love~
Join Date: Jul 2014
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@Everyone who wants Sakura to be involved in the anime minus GreyZone. Bring up some points. How will she be involved? Lorhand has done that just fine but you others haven't. You can't keep saying they will involve Sakura without giving points. And when some points are brought up, you say they don't work. Why not yo bring up points your self? @Person who said Gil would kill her. Knowing the person Gil is, he would most likely spare Sakura and make her his pawn or servant. He save her then say something like 'I like you girl, you're very strong willed. You shall become my....'. Though Gil doing that totally destroys the point of having him in UBW. Quote:
P.S Tiger Dojo would be a good idea, especially when Ilya's gonna die... Last edited by mirakura; 2014-08-06 at 12:42. |
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2014-08-06, 13:15 | Link #1605 | ||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 40
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Conversely, whilst Rin is not great at showing her affection to Sakura and tries to cover it up, she does genuinely love and feel concern for Sakura even at the beginning of the story (part of her reasoning for saving Shirou is that his death will hurt Sakura). Saving Sakura from certain death only tells us that she's not an absolute monster, whereas saving Shinji shows she's extremely kind and forgiving. Quote:
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As for Caster, I think she'd do it if it suited her goals, and if she wanted to use Sakura for some other purpose then I think that killing Zouken would help that purpose. There's no reason for it to go that way in UBW, though, so it's unlikely she would. Quote:
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Anyway, my point was more from a story-writer viewpoint. If Sakura's situation is left unresolved, then there is a good chance that Rin will get drawn into it at some point in the future. There are enough signs that she should be able to work out that Sakura has issues (especially when she gets older and wiser), and I can't see her hiding her relationship to Sakura from Shirou forever (not if they're going to have an enduring relationship). And, even if she does forget about Sakura and never investigates her, when something bad inevitably happens to Sakura, Rin will blame herself for failing to look after Sakura better (and with good reason, because she could have investigated more, and the older she gets the less valid her reasons not to have done so become). So, just leaving her situation unresolved is not only bad for Sakura, it's also bad for Rin in the long term. Conversely, whilst killing her off in-story would hurt Rin, she would feel less responsible for it than if Sakura died far in the future when Rin could have reasonably done more to help her, and there is also no danger of Rin getting herself killed in a rescue attempt. So, killing Sakura off in-story would make the ending less likely to go wrong for Rin, but only by sacrificing Sakura entirely. Which is something I find extremely distasteful. Quote:
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2014-08-06, 13:50 | Link #1606 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Of course, her character arc largely consists of her coming to terms with the fact that she's unable to do so and instead accepting her inherently kind nature (to the point of risking her life to save an irredimable asshole like Shinji), so I'd say that after UBW the chances of her looking into Sakura's situation and doing something about it in the future will have certainly increased. |
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2014-08-06, 15:35 | Link #1608 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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The anime follows UBW route, how is Sakura handled in UBW route - she will be the same way in anime. They don't really need to add any extra material about her fate in anime, than what we have been shown in VN, when they are going to make a movie(s) about her route anyway.
And why is all of a sudden she the most important Fate character? 90% of all the stuff I can read here lately is about her and it is becoming more and more tiresome. I know that she has fans and that is ok but this is getting pretty tiresome. |
2014-08-06, 15:49 | Link #1609 | |
Arturia X Tamamo is love~
Join Date: Jul 2014
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That said, lets try not to stray away from topic again. Else, torture from the MODs. |
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2014-08-06, 16:08 | Link #1610 | |
Tormund's Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Poland
Age: 34
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Not a waifu war really just discussing Sakura's role in UBW is the same as Saber fans wanting additional time for their favourite. Not really a waifu war
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I love Sakura as a character but I could envision her death instead of Illyas as a component for a grial, if only to see how it would affect Rin. Won't happen because of Nasu, but if Saber could die in HF to develop Shriou and Rider, Sakura's death, instead of deus-machina saving method could help develop the heroine, Rin. It would even work better than Illya to bolster Shirou's resolve in his ideal and make his battle against Gil more personal. It would be sad and all, but it's still better than happy-go-lucky UBW true-as Sakura's death should develop Rin and Shirou. But really I'm sure Nasu would object, Fans would rage, and hell would froze over before it could happen. It would also connect some dots from zero without spoiling much from HF. But should it destroy berserker death march of awesome i am against it :P Bah, it wouldn't have to exclude each other because the fantastic thing about Gil is that you can justify everything he does by him being Gil xD P.S Just imagine ufo going full LoTR with shirou projecting byakuya and kanshou at the gate to the temple, looking over his shoulder at rin nod, whispering: for Sakura-with grail-kun in the background it really sounds like a rip-off xD Last edited by scyllus; 2014-08-06 at 17:20. |
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2014-08-06, 17:19 | Link #1611 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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But why would Sakura and Saber get additional time in Rin's route? Saber is already bada** in that route, only she is not resolved 100% but she has been resolved in 2006 anime so that's ok. Sakura will be too resolved 100% in HF movie, so that leaves anime to be pure Rin. If someone finds that distasteful - then just don't watch it. Watch your favorite route animation instead and be happy.
Judging what decision UFOtable made they will probably go with VN storyline to the letter and that's pretty much it, adding original content only to fil gap between UBW and FZ and that's pretty much it. |
2014-08-06, 17:24 | Link #1612 |
Tormund's Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Poland
Age: 34
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Brother Coa- and honestly what's what I think they will do. But these are just speculations steming from a)original content inclusion b) fate/zero fact of existence c) not everyone is a vn purist. Also filling any hole from zero to ubw have to include Tohsaka sisters and give Saber's decision at the end some context doesn't it?
EDIT: Mirakura you're right xD Let's disscus cutting Rin's involvment in other routes instead xD Last edited by scyllus; 2014-08-06 at 17:47. |
2014-08-06, 17:29 | Link #1613 | |
Arturia X Tamamo is love~
Join Date: Jul 2014
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P.S The waifu war will be about which heroine deserves extra time... |
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2014-08-06, 17:48 | Link #1615 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but while Fate/Zero showed the wormpit I don't think it revealed that Zouken implanted his core worm within Sakura. This means there should be room for ufotable to resolve the visible hanging plot threads from Zero in UBW while still leaving the core HF plotline untouched. Something like:
A) Gilgamesh seemingly kills/drives away Zouken while he's nominally under Shinji because he thinks Zouken is a mongrel B) Gil also clears out the basement of worms because they disgust him C) Show Shinji treating Sakura better at the end since he's no longer jealous of her D) Maybe some sort of recognition of Sakura from Rin before she leaves for London This way Sakura's visible issues from the perspective of Zero-only watchers look resolved, but the complications below the surface are left for until the HF movie(s) where they belong, rather than shoehorning them into UBW badly or trivializing them by somehow completely saving Sakura in a trivial manner. |
2014-08-06, 17:50 | Link #1616 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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And just because they have FZ does not mean they had to follow it, Nasu said it himself. FZ is one anime and this will be the other. I can already tell you that FZ purists will after everything is aired always considered HF movie(s) as true FZ sequel. ( not that they will be 100% right about that but as long as they are happy who cares ) And Saber don't really need any development because she already has 2006 anime, that's the logic behind their decision. She get her closure there ( even if we didn't get True Ending scene ) while Rin will get her in UBW and Sakura in HF - everyone is happy. I can only hope now that they will also do remake of 2006 anime after they finish UBW and HF to please the biggest fanbase. But even if they don't it's ok, I already got anime, manga and movie home on DVD so I am happy as I can be . They remaking 'Fate' route one day will just be bonus for me. |
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2014-08-06, 17:52 | Link #1617 | |
Tormund's Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Poland
Age: 34
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B)Justifiable but requires HF knowledge ( Zouken body made of worms etc.) C)Zouken lives still, everything minus rape is the same D)Pandering and just enraging to Sakura fans.Resolves nothing, comes out of nowhere and still hurtful. But overall these weren't any worse that what was already proposed (also by me)the disscusion continues as Cherry Lover is adamant in his position that "seemingly" saving Sakura is the same as doing nothing at all to help reedem her shafting in UBW true (and if you read his posts closely he's got quite a good reasoning for it). And there's the fact what Nasu said, not a sequel to zero. Last edited by scyllus; 2014-08-06 at 18:39. Reason: Mirakura's Right |
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2014-08-06, 17:57 | Link #1618 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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If he doesn't like how they deal Sakura per UBW route - he doesn't need to watch it or to love it. He will have HF movie(s) to watch and love. |
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2014-08-06, 18:13 | Link #1619 | |
Tormund's Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Poland
Age: 34
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His points were mostly about Rin's development through Sakura's existence. And that what's very missing in RIN'S route. Of course Razor has a good point that UBW is really an Archer route, but if you want to market it as Rin's route, more development for her is a given. And Sakura is a perfect way to go about it. I would say that replacing Illya by Sakura might be a good way to go for it, but anything could work really. I do support your point that the Sakura topic should end soon, it will end up in flames. |
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2014-08-06, 18:40 | Link #1620 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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I am not getting personal - only realistic.
You cannot expect them to give Sakura the same treatment that main heroine in the route will receive. Not to mention that Zouken didn't get involved at all, so after the way Sakura stays with him and that's it. That's what happens in UBW and Fate and I don't see why would they change that when they already decided to do unrelated HF movie(s) to resolve her story as well. Using that they can go fully for UBW true ending, just like they can let Ilya get brutally killed because she has her own anime. And I agree, speculations need to stop to allow rumors to return. I am coming here to read rumors, not how some would like for x character to end. |
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heaven's feel, ubw, ufotable |
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