2010-08-15, 15:47 | Link #16441 | |
Uu~ Let's solve a riddle
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Germany
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But after all I have no idea what signs Italy or the Germans would have put on their gold bars ... how could I? Still some sick kind of hidden subtext if this really was intentional. I wouldn't put it past him to know what he was doing there. |
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2010-08-15, 16:17 | Link #16442 | |
Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 36
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2010-08-15, 16:23 | Link #16444 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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In some sense he uses Beatrice & her endless magic as an interesting literary device to start a universe through Umineko. We are presented with a bad-everyone-dies-ending and slowly given tools to think about what's in an unopenable cat-box. If you have love for the story it gives limitless possibilies for the setting and characters. However, if this isn't the case readers might just wait around when it's going to end with its figurative guts dragged out. I think this is why he dislikes people who just stop reading or have no love for the story. Perhaps maybe it'd be fair to say the real mystery in the story seems to be whether you find out this hidden aspect or if you drag it around in your own death fantasy. >.>a Some people might think this is silly or say "what's the point?" but at least I think I personally have gotten a lot out of the story thinking like this. D:
I'm curious what will happen with EP8. ` ~`) |
2010-08-15, 16:25 | Link #16445 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 32
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This. Biggest contradiction: in this tips (and EP1 too?) gold is from USA, not from Italy. Kinzo always was portrayed as Eagleland fanboy... |
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2010-08-15, 16:27 | Link #16446 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-08-15, 16:31 | Link #16447 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 38
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This has no value whatsoever: this is merely speculations from a witch hunter (probably one of Ootsuki's group), so it has no more value or contradicting weight against what we learn from Kinzo.
There is no evidence that neither is correct so heh.
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2010-08-15, 16:33 | Link #16448 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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That's sorta my point, Qilian to me doesn't follow those hints.
Oh and to go along with hints, Ryukishi said that "those who could solve the epitaph would know how the rest of arc 5-6 occured". So, what does Qilian tells you about arc 5 and 6? |
2010-08-15, 16:38 | Link #16449 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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The anagrams? LordU for the playful part of the riddle? I rest my case... Quote:
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2010-08-15, 16:40 | Link #16450 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Yeah explain to me then how "quadrillion" is a place to offer sacrifices.
You're right, Ryukishi says a lot of things, apparently they don't necessarily mean much. Just like his epitaph. Edit: Not long ago he said that nearly every word Zepar and Furfur said was a form of hint to the epitaph. I really don't see the relation between Zepar/Furfur and Qilian theory. |
2010-08-15, 16:46 | Link #16452 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Eva-Beatrice says so before solving the epitaph.
I just did arc 3 not long ago, it's really hard to connect Eva's reasoning with the Qilian theory. Edit : Qilian is a place, you probably didn't mean the key but the place to use it on. In fact it feels like it also betrays Rosa's hints from arc 5 heh. |
2010-08-15, 16:51 | Link #16453 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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2010-08-15, 17:00 | Link #16454 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I think Qilan follows hints about Kinzo's hometown not being in Odawara rather than the part about a place to offer sacrifices. So it probably uses different hints than you're looking at, but someone else might have a better answer for what you're asking than I do.
There are other theories besides Qilan though. It's just the most popular one. I'd ask Jan-poo or somebody about some of the other epitaph theories.
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2010-08-15, 17:29 | Link #16455 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Let's say the story is wrong, or at least has a lot of details very wrong that Kinzo himself wouldn't get wrong. To what end is Bernkastel using this semi-erroneous flashback, then? If the goal were to "present the answer," then obviously she wouldn't want to get things wrong. It seems like there's a lot of things being cobbled together here that could be true, or rather, could be plausible in aggregate. Is the goal to make us believe it? Or doubt it? Why? If it's to make some other conclusion easier to swallow, how does it do that? Knowing where Kinzo got his gold doesn't seem to really change much elsewhere in the story... unless it's more subtle than that somehow.
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2010-08-15, 17:37 | Link #16456 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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How Kinzo got the gold changes nothing but it can radically alter the interpretation of Kinzo's character. The solution presented by Bernkastel relies on the existence of Beatrice-1, presents Beatrice-2 as her daughter from Kinzo and implies Kinzo may have had an incestuous relationship with his daughter. Which, if my memory of things I have yet to get to serves me right, was part of the conclusion Bernkastel uttered regarding the entire family. Kinzo appears very humane, but at the same time... more insane than he has to be.
But he could have been very different. EDIT: Unrelated. Will seems to pay attention a lot to how people sat at the dinner table. I wonder, if he's just out to ensure that the testimony he is getting comes from a world where Leon doesn't exist (which changes the seating order) or something else entirely. EDIT EDIT: I've been counting. Maria's story about meeting Beatrice is only possible if Leon doesn't exist, or Jessica is not present. Otherwise, Maria's seat would not be next to Rosa. On the other hand, Jessica's story about having a prank played on her is quite ambiguous. If the seating order is "left to right each row in order of rank" means "left to right looking from Kinzo's position" then Ange's empty seat can be to Jessica's right only if Leon does exist. If the left to right is looking from the ceiling with Kinzo's seat oriented at the top, it also depends on Leon not existing. I am not sure which left and right are meant. Couldn't they bloody sit clockwise? ...
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Last edited by Oliver; 2010-08-15 at 18:01. |
2010-08-15, 18:00 | Link #16457 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Perhaps we could picture Bern as having goals which require some extreme trolling?
If you look at it from a point of view of trying to help Ange, it's unlikely without the roller coaster it has been since episode 3-4 that Ange would ever come at an answer that she could be happy with. That seems to require an entirely different sort of miracle which would never be found in a logic match or probable scenario. Ange was always good at finding some probable, yet cruel, truth. However Ange never would have found one that Maria, Battler or Beatrice would have hoped would be gained from their magic if she stopped thinking. This sort of answer has been dangled in our face for a while now I think; it can't really just be given out or it loses its meaning. |
2010-08-15, 18:07 | Link #16458 |
Intellectual Rape-ee
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In a closed room's closet waiting for a redhead to save me
Age: 34
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This may seem out of nowhere, but I love how R07 "canonized" the image song "Golden Nocturne."
In fact, perhaps integrating a doujin track into his game is part of his hint that this is an amalgamation of fan creations?
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2010-08-15, 18:19 | Link #16459 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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2010-08-15, 18:30 | Link #16460 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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The ace detective, Sentou, appears yet again!
I don't know what to think of this episode. Is it all false? Is that why Battler had a huge smile at the end? I believe in Eva Ushiromiya, I do, so I don't quite think that her involvement is false, but I'm a bit discomforted by other things as well. The first being Kinzo and his supposedly incestuous relation to Beato 2.0. That's fine and all, but it shows that the man is depraved. (As if this is anything new!) But more to the point, it shows that the man would be fine with sleeping with a member of his own family. I hate to harp on Jessica, but that little fact worries me. The other thing that troubles me is how Lambdadelta makes it a POINT that she doesn't honor run of the mill wishes, that she won't give her blessings to people with simple motives, and yet Kyrie in this episode really is quite a simple villain. Her methods are flashy, but she is about as paper thin as you can get. |
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