Anime Saimoe Tournament 2012 (Japan)

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

With all due respect, you don't know that.

Is Kanade or Mikoto facing a backlash this year in ISML?

Just because a character, or a faction, does well one year doesn't mean they won't do well in the future. It's an interesting theory that they'll face backlash, but that's all it is, a theory.

For all we know, J-SaiMoe 2013 may come down to Saki faction vs. Madoka faction.


Also, saying voters were "shafted" is just silly. People who didn't support Madoka characters, and people who didn't support Saki characters, were simply outvoted over these past two years. That's not "shafted". Shafted is like what happened to Homura in 2011 - Shafted means actual cheating at play, not just losing fair and square.

2channel and ISML are different animals. 2channel tends to lean towards fresher series, or shows that have not yet reached the top. ISML tends to lean towards shows that have already hit the pinnacle recently and in the past.

I am going to stand by my argument that Saki and Madoka are going to take a back seat next season because I bet you the voters will want something fresh.

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

How likely will SAO crash the party?

Oh yeah, SaO faction as well. It's going to be a huge faction war! XD OMG

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Hachiko

2channel and ISML are different animals. 2channel tends to lean towards fresher series, or shows that have not yet reached the top. ISML tends to lean towards shows that have already hit the pinnacle recently and in the past.

I am going to stand by my argument that Saki and Madoka are going to take a back seat next season because I bet you the voters will want something fresh.

If that's the case, then why is Saki back in force after doing so well in 2009? 2009 wasn't that long ago, it's only been three years. And a lot of the Saki characters doing well are doing well almost certainly because of their standing in the original anime, not the "fresher" Achigha-hen spinoff. There's no way that Hisa and Saki herself should be in the Final 8 if voters only vote for something "fresh".

So yeah, I think that you're overstating your argument. It's quite possible that Saki and Madoka Magica could do well in J-SaiMoe 2013.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So yeah, I think that you're overstating your argument. It's quite possible that Saki and Madoka Magica could do well in J-SaiMoe 2013.

Saki may remain in momentum after the release of the 3 additional Achiga episodes., whenever that may be. And even later, a real season 2 featuring Kiyosumi in the Nationals. Mahjong is an intense game (if you played it, you know what I may be talking about); and to couple it with "moe", well, we see the results right before us.

Madoka could gain some boost after the movie. But... that will not be enough to propel the franchise.

Remember, Nanoha dwindled in the years after its peak.

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Madoka could gain some boost after the movie. But... that will not be enough to propel the franchise.

Remember, Nanoha dwindled in the years after its peak.

You might be right but I don't think Madoka's the same as Nanoha. Madoka's impact on 2ch, and Japan, was astounding and very much groundbreaking. And I believe that aside from the 2 movies this year, with the 3rd film's release next year along with the massive hype and trailers, the boost would be in another level. Madoka isn't just a simple passing franchise imo. So yeah, here's my two cents, Madoka will remain strong next year

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Hachiko

Yeah, well, unfortunately, the voters who were shafted by both camps will elect to go in a different direction next season.

Well, voters were certainly Shafted in 2011. Saki, on the other hand, is from another studio.

Originally Posted by Kyuu

How likely will SAO crash the party?

Asuna is ridiculously popular. She will be a force.

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If that's the case, then why is Saki back in force after doing so well in 2009? 2009 wasn't that long ago, it's only been three years. And a lot of the Saki characters doing well are doing well almost certainly because of their standing in the original anime, not the "fresher" Achigha-hen spinoff. There's no way that Hisa and Saki herself should be in the Final 8 if voters only vote for something "fresh".

So yeah, I think that you're overstating your argument. It's quite possible that Saki and Madoka Magica could do well in J-SaiMoe 2013.

The reason Saki is where they are right now is because they did not win the crown in 2009 or 2010. So this is the year where they get right and finally reach the top. After this year, Saki's top brass will play with nothing to lose. And I am combining the original and Achiga-hen together because it's the same franchise.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Well, voters were certainly Shafted in 2011. Saki, on the other hand, is from another studio.

Pun aside, the non-Saki voters were shafted this year, as in screwed silly, by the Saki faction. That's not gonna happen next year because the voters will pick something different. Nanoha might be on the upswing because of Fate falling short a few years back, so if they are going to go with one of the old powers, they'll send Nanoha over the top. But Madoka had their day in the spotlight in 2011 and Saki has its day this year. As far as I'm concerned, it would be a surprise if Saki and Madoka destroyed the competition next year.

[ion475]

If that's the case, then why is Saki back in force after doing so well in 2009? 2009 wasn't that long ago, it's only been three years. And a lot of the Saki characters doing well are doing well almost certainly because of their standing in the original anime, not the "fresher" Achigha-hen spinoff. There's no way that Hisa and Saki herself should be in the Final 8 if voters only vote for something "fresh".

1. How many Saki characters are "doing well" b/c of their appearance in old anime? Saki, Koromo, and Bucchou are the only 3 I see...
2. Saki was back in force even back in 2010. Not as crazy as they were in 2009 but they did send 2 girls to Top 8...
3. Back to original comparison...AST is a mix b/t old and new, while ISML is purely "same old, same old" since, well, I start voting there. Remember, just b/c it SEEMS like Saki dominates, 3 out of 6 possible winners are new, while the 4th can be either way. Even then, Nodoka plays a semi-major role in Achiga-hen. Hack, Airi would have lose 70-30 margin in ISML against Shana...(Okay, Shana did get knocked off by Eu...on the other hand, Eu is someone who'll never do good in AST...)

All in all, yes, Saki doesn't deserve to win her group, but only one that could have challenged her is Kobato (Maho is a different story, it's clearly an attempt to knock Saki out in 1st round). Bucchou faces zero competition, partly thanks to Shizu knocking Kyouko out. Saki dominance there, yes, but you don't have the excuse of "Being popular only b/c of their old series" with Shizu.

Asuna is ridiculously popular. She will be a force.

We all know Suguha > Asuna

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by ion475

And IP ban has to do with Saki dominance, how? They dominate back in 2009 and 2010 also with a much smaller poll. Even when a Saki girls lose back then, it's never by much...

This is just within my perspective but looking at how ISML is, the international anime community aren't big Saki fans. It's already shown since Saimoe 2007 that foreigners really affect the results of matches. Nagi would've won Saimoe 2007 if the foreigners didn't vote. Mikoto would've reached quarterfinals in 2010 if no foreigners voted in her match with Azunyan. This is exactly the reason why ip bans are strict. The 2ch peeps think that we, the gaijins, ruin their moe tournaments (though they're really ruining themselves atm or at least the way I see it).

I mean exactly, how many of are actually able to even vote in this tournament? I mean some people in Japan can't vote in Saimoe. I'm exactly in the same position as Coldlight who tried to find ways around the system or just vote "once" in a year and that completely stopped last year. While I'll always be excited in every Saimoe tournament, there will always be frustration in my part that I can't vote.

tl;dr Us gaijins would provide votes that would give the non-Saki characters an actual chance.

[ion475]

This is just within my perspective but looking at how ISML is, the international anime community aren't big Saki fans. It's already shown since Saimoe 2007 that foreigners really affect the results of matches. Nagi would've won Saimoe 2007 if the foreigners didn't vote. Mikoto would've reached quarterfinals in 2010 if no foreigners voted in her match with Azunyan. This is exactly the reason why ip bans are strict. The 2ch peeps think that we, the gaijins, ruin their moe tournaments (though they're really ruining themselves atm or at least the way I see it).

Quite frankly, a few rotten apples did spoiled the bunch there. "Gaijin" affect result, what about "gaijin" throwing in fake votes, repeated votes, etc.? (using 2ch excuses, of course...)

And IP ban not just affect gaijin anyway, a bunch of Japanese IP got ban also, sometimes for no reason...

P.S. The funny thing is, I use an US IP and is able to vote + get code most of the time (Not every single time, but a 75% success rate). Was in HK few weeks ago and was able to get a code there with 0 problem either.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ion475

1. How many Saki characters are "doing well" b/c of their appearance in old anime? Saki, Koromo, and Bucchou are the only 3 I see...

Three clear examples isn't exactly a bad supporting argument, you know.

2. Saki was back in force even back in 2010. Not as crazy as they were in 2009 but they did send 2 girls to Top 8...

And again, you're just proving my point for me.

So Saki was strong in 2009, 2010, and now in 2012. In other words, its been strong every year it qualified for J-Saimoe since it originally aired. That sounds like pretty steady and consistent strength to me.


Now, to be fair, I think that you and Hachiko are arguing "You don't get backlash just for doing well in general; you only get backlash if your series wins it all."

Ok, fair enough. Is there a list somewhere of all the J-SaiMoe winners? I ask because I'd like to analyze this for myself.

[Archaeon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ok, fair enough. Is there a list somewhere of all the J-SaiMoe winners? I ask because I'd like to analyze this for myself.

Is this what you looking for?

Past Saimoe Winners
2011 Mami Tomoe (Madoka Magica)
2010 Azusa Nakano (K-ON!!)
2009 Taiga Aisaka (Toradora!)
2008 Kagami Hiiragi (Lucky Star)
2007 Rika Furude (When They Cry - Higurashi)
2006 Suiseiseki (Rozen Maiden)
2005 Nanoha Takamachi (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha)
2004 Rosemary Applefield (Ashita no Nadja)
2003 Riku Harada (D.N.Angel)
2002 Sakura Kinomoto (Card Captor Sakura)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...nt-2012-begins

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Now, to be fair, I think that you and Hachiko are arguing "You don't get backlash just for doing well in general; you only get backlash if your series wins it all."

Ok, fair enough. Is there a list somewhere of all the J-SaiMoe winners? I ask because I'd like to analyze this for myself.

This has a history of prior winners.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archaeon

Is this what you looking for?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...nt-2012-begins

Originally Posted by Hachiko

This has a history of prior winners.

Thanks a lot for that.

My analysis:

2005 and 2006 were basically all about Nanoha faction vs. Rozen Maiden faction. Nanoha didn't weaken after winning it all in 2005 - In fact, it produced the losing finalist of 2006 (Fate Testarossa) who herself slightly edged out the defending champion. Nanoha and Rozen Madien each had one representative in the Final 16 of 2007, while Shinku made the final 8 of 2007. Nanoha herself also won a couple rounds in 2008, while Hayate won three rounds that year. That's a pretty good 3/4 year run for these two shows, imo. This is just the sort of slow, gradual weakening that I'd expect to see in moe competitions.

Lucky Star did indeed face a serious backlash for its 2008 domination.

K-On! produced finalists in both 2009 and 2010, winning in 2010. K-On! then faced backlash last year.


It's fair to say that J-SaiMoe generally doesn't like sticking with the same anime franchise for more than two years. But at the same time there have been cases where a show produced finalists in back-to-back years.

So, do I think that a Saki or a Madoka Magica character will win it all in 2013? Probably not.

But do I think that they'll face a Lucky Star-esque backlash? That's much more guesswork, in my opinion. Nanoha and Rozen Maiden didn't really face such an immediate backlash, while K-On! at least had two years of riding high.

[RJ TAYLER]

Thank you, that was The Psycadellic Furs with their famous, and dare I say it, most appropriate hit song "Pretty In Pink". Now it comes to me to ask the two lovely combatants to join me here on the stage. Yes Louise you can just give Hinata a lift up here.

Huge drum-roll...

Now if you will, the winner of Block D is.......

[Hachiko]

Spoiler for Group D Result:

Hail to Zero! Hail to Zero!
Louise de la Valliere.
Rie Kugimiya hero,
This surely is the year.
Hail to Zero! Hail to Zero!
Champion of the Right!
Bring forth the glory!
God will give thee might!

Too much respect for Louise from the Sakiists. It's an upset.

[Wanderer]

Round 1: Picks (45-43-8), Predictions (69-27)
Round 2: Picks (12-20), Predictions (22-10)
Round 3: Picks (7-9), Predictions (13-3)
Round 4: Picks (2-2), Predictions (3-1)

Sanya V. Litvyak @ Strike Witches: <<サーニャ・V・リトヴャク＠ストライクウィッチーズ劇場版>>
Yuu Matsumi @ Saki: <<松実宥＠咲-Saki- 阿知賀編 episode of side-A>>

*Yawn*

[stormtrooper]

Round 2 Picks (17-15), Predictions (25-7)
Round 3 Picks (11-5), Predictions (11-5)
Round 4 Picks (2-2), Predictions (3-1)

Pick - Sanya
Prediction - Yuu

Pink Power down.

[Hachiko]

The final Cold War begins in less than two hours. Stay tuned.

[Team Rocket Elite]

The result from the preliminaries hold as Louise take out Hinata to advance to the Top 8. While Hinata and Airi did well, they just couldn't hold up against teh Kugimiya Rie fanbase. The top 8 is crawling with high tier Saki characters so Louise is going to need some luck if she wants to get any farther in the contest.

Matsumi Yuu is on stage to try and claim the 6th Top 8 spot for Saki and 18th straight win. Trying to stop her is Sanya. Yuu is one of the stronger Saki Side A characters so Sanya is in a lot of trouble here. One ray of hope for Sanya is she did muster up over 500 votes back in Round 1 to take down Hinagiku. However since then, she's had solid but not particularly impressive wins over Takatsuki Yayoi and Uryuu Sakuno. Yuu on the other hand easily defeated Taiga and Yui and generally has had one of the highest vote totals each round. I don't think she'll fall to Sanya.

Vote:
Sanya V. Litvyak

Prediction:
Matsumi Yuu