Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[KiNA]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I take donations in cookies... this stuff took about eight hours after all.

Originally Posted by <forums.animesuki.com>

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to magnuskn again.

Cookies in the oven.. please be patient

When/why did I gave you last anyway?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Mei19

but because that is his bloody story. He should sell Macross Frontier's title to other writers if he's going to give out the reigns again. I want to see Kawamori's Macross Frontier movie. [/B]

For your information, aside from the concept of transforming robots and other technologies depicted in the series, Macross was never Kawamori's sole property/idea. It was the brainchild of many legendary individuals in the anime industry.

- Tak

[KiNA]

^ Oh come on .. she just got sold by the rumor, as much as she wants to deny it ..

[Tak]

Originally Posted by KiNA

^ Oh come on .. she just got sold by the rumor, as much as she wants to deny it ..

*Shrug* I was simply exercising the hope for her to be rational. I hope I have not done myself a disservice.

- Tak

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by Tak

For your information, aside from the concept of transforming robots and other technologies depicted in the series, Macross was never Kawamori's sole property/idea. It was the brainchild of many legendary individuals in the anime industry.

- Tak

Since I said I want to see Kawamori's macross frontier movie. I agree up there that there have been some contributions around Kawamori in making Macross FRONTIER. But Tak says that Macross Frontier is never Kawamori's sole property/idea? You're exaggerating again.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ople.php?id=31

Macross Frontier (TV) : Chief Director, Storyboard (ep 1, 2), Original creator, Story Composition, Valkyrie Design

Macross Frontier is from Kawamori.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Mei19

[B][FONT="Century Gothic"]Since I said I want to see Kawamori's macross frontier movie. I agree up there that there have been some contributions around Kawamori in making Macross FRONTIER. But Tak says that Macross Frontier is never Kawamori's sole property/idea? You're exaggerating again.

Ok, looks like I have indeed done myself a disservice while overestimating your intelligence and capacity for rationality. My humble apologies.

It seems you don't know Macross at all if you pin the entire franchise as being Kawamori's sole idea/property. Please kindly refer to its franchise history.

- Tak (Thank you for your response, now go get a fucking clue)

[Mei19]

Er....why are you suddenly talking about the entire Macross franchise? I was commenting on Macross Frontier being Kawamori's hahah

Originally Posted by Tak

It seems you don't know Macross at all if you pin the entire franchise as being Kawamori's sole idea/property. Please kindly refer to its franchise history.

What does this mean? Does this also mean that Macross Frontier's original creator is not Kawamori? lmao Boy how confusing. I give up. Tak knows best.

[zalem]

Mei19 did say in her (actually are you a girl?) original post that Macross Frontier was Kawamori's. Not that Macross was Kawamori's. At least, that's how I understood the post.

Though I fear greatly for Ranka's character if Kawamori takes full control. He basically wanted her to just be a stereotypical loli moe blob with no development. At least that was his original idea. I want proper development for Ranka, so I hope he gives us that.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by zalem

Mei19 did say in her (actually are you a girl?) original post that Macross Frontier was Kawamori's. Not that Macross was Kawamori's. At least, that's how I understood the post.

The original idea of which has been changed and revised over time, even with other people working with him after the initial stages. The credits are listed as is, but it seems the truth of the matter isn't as clear cut as that.

If we had the MF story that Kawamori originally wanted, we would've probably gotten something almost completely different (i.e., Sheryl becoming another supporting character while Brera becoming part of the main cast).

That being said, if the rumor proves to be true, I'm also worried about how things will work out with Ranka under Kawamori's full control, considering he admitted that he and the staff were at a loss at what to do with her. Hopefully, with the movie being more limited in terms of time and length, it won't end up being overcomplicated for its own good.

[Tak]

Not to mention many of the original staff return to make this.

Although Kawamori claims credit for Valkyrie design, Kazutaka Miyatake is still on the concept portion of the series. In fact, Miyatake had designed for every Macross series starting with the original.

Not to mention the 'concept' had always been attributed to Studio Nue, which is also listed on the official credit of Frontier on every episode. By quoting a half-assed credit posted on Anime News Network is hardly a compensation for actual facts.

- Tak

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by kujoe

That being said, if the rumor proves to be true, I'm also worried about how things will work out with Ranka under Kawamori's full control, considering he admitted that he and the staff were at a loss of what to do with her. Hopefully, with the movie being more limited in terms of time and length, it won't end up being overcomplicated for its own good.

I trust Kawamori. He lost his way probably because of all the changes he did with the storyline.

On the subject of Ranka, I think Kawamori will do justice on her character this time too. I believe in him! Ohnogi took control from 18-24. My suspicion is that the Ranka in 18-24 is Ohnogi's Ranka, not Kawamori's. I liked the determination Ranka showed in 12, and 14 in front of Ozma. That should be Kawamori's Ranka....I want that kind of Ranka back in the movie.

Hai, zalem. I'm a girl. I can be a bit boyish but I'm a girl.

[kujoe]

Well, that's exactly the Ranka that he was at a loss with. So yeah, I'm not too particularly excited or interested in that either. Moreover, it's not as if Ohnogi whipped up a new Ranka just like that. He had to base his ideas on something that was already previously established.

Just like zalem said, Kawamori wanted Ranka to just be the innocent moe-blob character that she should've been, when that is practically impossible with the story of the series.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by KiNA

Cookies in the oven.. please be patient

When/why did I gave you last anyway?

For sending you an PM.

Shaloom posted the episode 22 liner notes, so they are incoming somewhen today. They are not as explicit as I had hoped for what I really wanted to know ( no sex confirmed, but it didn´t come up as topic, so no denial either ^^ ), but enough to finally shut up everyone who adamantly insisted that nothing happened between Sheryl and Alto ( They kissed. Confirmed by Kawamori. And Ranka felt it. Har-di-har. ).

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Well... Considering what Ohnogi think about Ranka...

Originally Posted by Ohnogi's Translated Interview

Ranka was indeed one of the reasons why I told Kawamori his script had lost its way. Ranka is more than an idol, the problem is that its own creator did not intend to make it grow out more than the stereotype of an idol. Ranka is nothing without a microphone.

It's more like because of Ranka's development, the script lost its way rather than since there are a lot of script changes, Ranka's development were lost And I agree with both zalem and kujoe said, Kawamori wanted to preserve the innocence aspect that Ranka have even though it was certainly impossible for the story to develop with her preserved aspect.

EDIT: Ohnogi = Sheryl's fan confirmed And post the translation for episode 22 liner notes fast if you have the yime, magnuskn (Cookies nazis prevented me to give you them though )

[raile]

I can't wait for the liner notes on 22+ ♥♥♥
It will all be very interesting.
I wish I could give you more cookies, magnuskn >_<

[magnuskn]

And here are the liner notes for episode 22, released yesterday. All credits go to Shaloom on the Macross Generation forum.

http://macrossgeneration.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

Episode 22 Link :

- The painting Nanase did about Ranka was done in the "sacred art" style of the middle ages, taking as reference paintings about angels. From a religious standpoint, angels are normally considered beings of great purity, destined, between other functions, to protect human beings. Ranka takes this sacred vision and simbolizes Ranka in the way she perceives her, as the protector of humanity. According to Kawamori, Nanase is one of the best art students of the Frontier fleet and an expert in classic styles and diverse techniques. Kawamori also tried to express with this picture how Nanase has Ranka as a figure, not only considering her a friend, but also an inspiring muse and, in a certain way, a sacred symbol of protection ( and much yuri-lust ).

- Like Ohnogi indicated in the last episode, as the fleet isn´t in a state of emergency anymore, the senate now confirms Leon as president.

- There is a poster of the beatles in Sheryls dressing room. Kawamori commented on the radio program: "In this new facet which had been created of Sheryl, I liked the idea very much that she would include photographs in her dressing room of the band which marked her as an artist. So I asked that a poster of the Beatles would be included, as they are my favourite band. I grew up listening to them."

- The dialogue between Klan and Alto, when she is telling him about Sheryls sickness, are a reference to the talk Claudia LaSalle has with Hikaru Ichijyo in the novels by Ohnogi, when Misa Hayase is about to be transferred to Earth. In the novel, Claudia tells him how she feels about Roys death, about her relationship and what she thinks about Hikaru chasing "an impossible dream" called Linn Minmay. This speech occurs in the Macross TV series in episode 24 "Good-bye Girl", but in the novels it is much longer and more emotional.

- Bobby Margo asked Kawamori if Alto really kissed Sheryl and if yes, why did he do it?

Kawamori answered: "When I read the script, I honestly didn´t agree with that scene. As Alto had shown much indecision and because it is a mystery to find out what he really wants. I talked to Hiroshi ( Ohnogi ) and we were discussing a few hours about this. Then Hiroshi told me: "Don´t you want that the viewers get emotional? It is very important to express what love ( reciprocated or not ) can do. I want to show how a feeling can travel thousands of years, cross the galaxy and tell the stars what you feel. The viewers have to be astonished, feel emotional and ask themselves if this is possible."

I had then no argument left but to autorize this kiss. The concept which Ohnogi tried to bring across with this kiss left me astonished. It is what Macross always has tried to express, be it with music, with sacrifice, with the concept of mechs or with a song.

Bobby: So it was from there that Ranka could feel their feelings even from various folds of distance? And that Sheryl feels and "hears" the sweetness of the song Brera is playing and that Ranka transmits those emotions? Incredible! The love has no frontiers, mister director! It is a beautiful message! I love it!

Kawamori: I love this idea and I believe it. Although I want to make clear that this is not the end of the triangle, I hope you stay focused, because there are still unexpected turns in this story. Ranka still has many cards to win the love of Alto. But I hope you think about this: Why can they feel emotions in this manner? What makes this connection possible? Also very important: Did you think about what Alto exactly wants? There is the key how this love story is going to be resolved and we´ll show that in episode 25. Only a short time left!"

- During his inaugural speech, Leons words are again a reference ( with obvious differences ) to the speech Bruno J. Global gave during the anniversary of the First Space War, in the novels by Ohnogi. In this speech, Global refers to the threat of the Supervision Army and the Zentraedi, who are still in most of the galaxy and have had no contact with culture. In the same speech the masssive colonization project is announced.

- Kawamori commented that he had an enormous discussion with Ohnogi about the scene where the crew of Macross Quarter convert themselves into pirates, as Kawamori never agreed with the idea that in the Macross universe pirates did exist. Kawamori said that the same situation emerged in the Macross TV series in 1982, when they were writing the story where the crew of the SDF-1 disobeyed orders and returned to Earth. Ohnogi then suggested that the SDF-1 should turn into a pirate vessel and would find itself in the middle of the conflict between the UN Space and the Zentraedi. Kawamori and the director of the series, Noburo Ishiguro didn´t like the idea, and it was rejected.

- On this occasion on Macross Frontier, Kawamori again didn´t want the Macross Quarter or her crew to convert into "pirates". But the staff thought it was an incredible idea and, finally, Kawamori was convinced of the change by seeing the enthusiasm of the staff to handle the challenge of that plot twist.

- Ohnogi wrote all the dialogues, following the romanticism of joining a group of renegades which did not look for gold but for higher ideals. In fact, the dialogue followed various tales which exist in literature about pirates.

- The costume Sheryl uses in her interpretation of Northern Cross is the same costume May'n used in various presentations of this single on television. The choreography is also the same as the one used by May'n.

- The dialogue of Ozma "For what purpose do you have wings?", is a reference to a discussion Roy Focker has with Hikaru Ichijyo in the novels by Ohnogi. In this story, Hikaru is reminded of Roy and the form in which Roy asked him to join up with the military and convert into a combat pilot "Hikaru Ichijyo! For what purpose do you have wings?"

As always, please keep this on this forum. If you can´t be bothered to be responsible about this, then at least link back to the Macross Generation forum and credit Shaloom for all his work.

[raile]

"Don´t you want that the viewers get emotional? It is very important to express what love ( reciprocated or not ) can do. I want to show how a feeling can travel thousands of years, cross the galaxy and tell the stars what you feel. The viewers have to be astonished, feel emotional and ask themselves if this is possible."

Mister Ohnogi is awesome.

[magnuskn]

And I know I shouldn´t post again before someone else has done so, but I don´t want to let my personal opinions seep too much into the translation ( except about yuri-lust! ).

But, my goodness, Kawamori and Bobby really are all about Ranka-chan. That doesn´t exactly give me much hopes for the movie, if Ohnogi is busy with the new Full Metal Alchemist adaptation.

And, well, kiss confirmed, sex not so much. However not even mentioned ( I guess "Bobby" couldn´t have handled if his hime-sama would have had sex with Sheryl. ), so still possible. <g>

I am left wondering which "card" Ranka still had to play in her fight to get her Alto-kun? Maybe another "Tasukete!" ? Oh, yeah, there was that...

I simply don´t know anymore... on one hand Kawamori is the chief decider of the series, on the other hand he apparently seemed much less capable in handling all the main characters than Ohnogi and the rest of the staff. Curious, and not exactly encouraging for the movie. I hope he lets the rest of the staff help him make decisions, and not only Ohnogi.

Seems that I am joining Taks side in regards to Kawamori.

[raile]

Ohnogi captures beautiful and complicated emotions while Kawamori is a troll. Enough said.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And here are the liner notes for episode 22, released yesterday. All credits go to Shaloom on the Macross Generation forum.

http://macrossgeneration.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

Episode 22 Link :

- The dialogue between Klan and Alto, when she is telling him about Sheryls sickness, are a reference to the talk Claudia LaSalle has with Hikaru Ichijyo in the novels by Ohnogi, when Misa Hayase is about to be transferred to Earth. In the novel, Claudia tells him how she feels about Roys death, about her relationship and what she thinks about Hikaru chasing "an impossible dream" called Linn Minmay. This speech occurs in the Macross TV series in episode 24 "Good-bye Girl", but in the novels it is much longer and more emotional.

- Bobby Margo asked Kawamori if Alto really kissed Sheryl and if yes, why did he do it?

Kawamori answered: "When I read the script, I honestly didn´t agree with that scene. As Alto had shown much indecision and because it is a mystery to find out what he really wants. I talked to Hiroshi ( Ohnogi ) and we were discussing a few hours about this. Then Hiroshi told me: "Don´t you want that the viewers get emotional? It is very important to express what love ( reciprocated or not ) can do. I want to show how a feeling can travel thousands of years, cross the galaxy and tell the stars what you feel. The viewers have to be astonished, feel emotional and ask themselves if this is possible."

I had then no argument left but to autorize this kiss. The concept which Ohnogi tried to bring across with this kiss left me astonished. It is what Macross always has tried to express, be it with music, with sacrifice, with the concept of mechs or with a song.

Bobby: So it was from there that Ranka could feel their feelings even from various folds of distance? And that Sheryl feels and "hears" the sweetness of the song Brera is playing and that Ranka transmits those emotions? Incredible! The love has no frontiers, mister director! It is a beautiful message! I love it!

Kawamori: I love this idea and I believe it. Although I want to make clear that this is not the end of the triangle, I hope you stay focused, because there are still unexpected turns in this story. Ranka still has many cards to win the love of Alto. But I hope you think about this: Why can they feel emotions in this manner? What makes this connection possible? Also very important: Did you think about what Alto exactly wants? There is the key how this love story is going to be resolved and we´ll show that in episode 25. Only a short time left!"

You know... I honestly love Ohnogi's idea of love more than Kawamori. That or his coercion ability of reasoning that can make Kawamori authorize the "kiss" scene.

But damnit, reading the interview somwhow solidifies my concern that Kawamori wanted a triangle ending... >_>; Must be his fatherly affection to Ranka spawning out there.

- Kawamori commented that he had an enormous discussion with Ohnogi about the scene where the crew of Macross Quarter convert themselves into pirates, as Kawamori never agreed with the idea that in the Macross universe pirates did exist. Kawamori said that the same situation emerged in the Macross TV series in 1982, when they were writing the story where the crew of the SDF-1 disobeyed orders and returned to Earth. Ohnogi then suggested that the SDF-1 should turn into a pirate vessel and would find itself in the middle of the conflict between the UN Space and the Zentraedi. Kawamori and the director of the series, Noburo Ishiguro didn´t like the idea, and it was rejected.

- On this occasion on Macross Frontier, Kawamori again didn´t want the Macross Quarter or her crew to convert into "pirates". But the staff thought it was an incredible idea and, finally, Kawamori was convinced of the change by seeing the enthusiasm of the staff to handle the challenge of that plot twist.

- Ohnogi wrote all the dialogues, following the romanticism of joining a group of renegades which did not look for gold but for higher ideals. In fact, the dialogue followed various tales which exist in literature about pirates.

Ahh... The joy of knowing the troll getting betrayed by the staffs... It's such a good feeling indeed!