Anime Saimoe Tournament 2013 (Japan)

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

I was gone for a few days to Japan for the Bonbori Matsuri and so many things happen. I guess we can conclude MadoMagi as the winner already. No point to continue for the other non-Saki/MadoMagi or Saki girls cannot win this year's AST. MadoMagi is gonna dominate like how they did in 2011 >.>

Henceforth I'll only vote on certain match days.

EDIT: I see they introduced a new rule which made the tourney itself lose some flavor. As much as I want a fair and even match, I won't even get them now. Heck, I'll probably stop voting already.

The transparency of the new criteria is not there and I'm not pleased with it. The admins need to be transparent about their criteria or I see AST is going down to doom if they keep that rule that will potentially rig the tourney. It's not even funny right now.



Perhaps it could be that way, but like I say on all purpose. I'm totally fine with anyone that is non-Mado/Saki to win so I don't think I have to drop that.



Well when you said that I was shooting everyone not supporting Saki, mind you, go and see the past and you'll find most of them supporting MadoMagi. It's not wrong to support your favorite series but the way you put it, it seems like the reason I raged so hard was cos the Matsumi sister lost BECAUSE I supported them. While it's not wrong that I supported them, the fact I raged was not because I supported them and they lost but rather how it seems that Miho was piggy backing the presence of Mami to win over Kuro - lets remember that this is my main purpose of the rage and not otherwise what you stated by saying I'm shooting everyone not supporting Saki. Sure, I'm shooting those who is downplaying on MadoMagi's strength but not for that. Are we even on the same issue?

I've been theorising that Saki's decline was due to the admins initiating it and the fans quitting propagating it, but I need more proof. First, I need to include fake votes inside my graphs, but I can't get the vote counter to work...

I was shooting Saki, but now I'm shooting the AST organisers. I wanted Saki to go down, but not like that. I still don't want MadoMagi to go down (not like what happened to Saki anyway), now I want the AST organisers to go down. Unless they do a 180° and fix things (which is highly unlikely anyway).

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

KBM had a server crash and they didn't have any backup. According to what maglor told me on ISML forums so they are discontinuing the tourney.

Wow. No wonder. Thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

I don't know is this sarcasm or not since I'm not in the mood now to tell the difference but I hope it's not. In anyway I'm gonna reply this earnestly.

Though this is my maiden participation, I already have reliable sources(veteran AST voters) telling me things. Besides, history of AST and the changes they made these years are already forewarning it's gonna be shit. I was hoping it won't be the case but it seems so right now. In any case, this year's AST is going down the drain and if the admins is not gonna do anything about it, future AST is also going to go down. Some of my Japanese friends aren't particularly happy with the new changes and they have given up voting completely.

It's a pity though, I like their repechage system but with them restricting so much and them not being transparent at all, it just do the system injustice.

Rest assured it's not sarcasm. Serious question here.

So you're saying that you knew that AST would screw up Saki? Hmm.

What I wonder is why and how MadoMagi would escape unscathed while a faction like Chuu2 didn't, if it wasn't even a target.

(inb4 it turns out that it's simply because MadoMagi were also multivoting, just that they haven't been caught yet or the admins are letting it)

Originally Posted by MartianMage

I dunno why some people even assume this is no longer fair. I don't see how implementing stricter foreign IP bans = rigging the tourney. If majority of these 400-500 japanese voters like MadoMagi then why is it not fair? MadoMagi is pretty big in Japan after all.

IIRC some Japanese voters are also barred form voting because of said bans, because the only Internet connections they had had IP addresses which just happened to be used as common proxies.

Also what KanbeKotori said.

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

I pray that Kuroneko will win SaiMoe 2013! Double champion is a nice thing!

Still, it's a sad thing that the triple crown will not happen now that Korea Best Moe is discontinued.

As I've posted earlier, there are still other emerging Saimoe competitions that have the potential to become big competitions. We could follow those instead.

[hinakatbklyn]

Ayase is top 16, Ruri is either top 16 or repchange, Should Watashi win her match, Oreimo will have their main 3 still active (Kirino would return for repchange). But since Watashi is not being eliminated win or lose, I'm supporting Maho both sincerely and for tactical reasons.

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

I pray that Kuroneko will win SaiMoe 2013! Double champion is a nice thing!

Still, it's a sad thing that the triple crown will not happen now that Korea Best Moe is discontinued.

I admit, I wasn't that sure of Ruri's chances of winning AST this year basing my original opinion on her preliminary results (2nd place but a low vote total) and now add in the PMMM powering up again and voting restrictions. If she does win however, she would be the first AST/ISML double winner.

- (Hinagiku: KBM 07 / ISML 09) (Who knows if Hayate series will have any new material for her to compete in AST. Even if she is my #1, I would really be stunned if she returns to repchange and ends up winning this year.)
- (Taiga: KBM / AST 09) (Best chance at Triple crown, but Kugimiya reps have started to weaken even further. Not impossible but the chance may have passed her by)
- (Mio: KBM / ISML 10) (No new material so AST is not possible)

[Subayai]

Results for Group Finals Day 3
Before multivote exclusion
Ef
1st 282 Kobato Hasegawa @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
2nd 133 Yoshino @ Date A Live

Gf
1st 256 Kuroneko (Ruri Gokou) @ Ore No Imouto Ga Konna Ni Kawaii Wake Ga Nai
2nd 213 Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri

EDIT
After multivote exclusion
Ef
1st 247 Kobato Hasegawa @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
2nd 122 Yoshino @ Date A Live

Gf
1st 223 Kuroneko (Ruri Gokou) @ Ore No Imouto Ga Konna Ni Kawaii Wake Ga Nai
2nd 193 Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri

=============================================

A modification to the new rules has been implemented today:
From now on, results before and after vote exclusion will be released for all matches, independently if the winners change or not. In exchange, the list of suspicious codes will not be released in any case, so no one will be able to know if his vote was counted or not.

[ion475]

I admit, I wasn't that sure of Ruri's chances of winning AST this year basing my original opinion on her preliminary results (2nd place but a low vote total) and now add in the PMMM powering up again and voting restrictions. If she does win however, she would be the first AST/ISML double winner.

I never understand the logic of "KN being weak" just based upon the number of vote in prelim...seriously, she finished 2nd to last year's champ (This is before Saki crashed and burn), in the 1st prelim group (Means less people vote), and all of a sudden she's weak...I mean, low vote total? When even Toki only got 167 votes (to KN's 148?)

I mean, KN may not have the Ayase momentum, doesn't mean she's that much weaker than she was. Now, Kiririn on the other hand...

For pre-purge result today...
E Final: Kobato 282 - Yoshino 133
G Final: KN 256 - Akarin 213

Kobato is pretty much in. KN-Akarin is too close to call with the new system...

[Hachiko]

Spoiler for graphics:

[Subayai]

Congrats to Kobato and Kuroneko.

These characters are going to repechage
Round 1 Losers
Katyusha @ Girls Und Panzer
Takane Shijou @ The Idolmaster
Azusa Miura @ The Idolmaster

Round 2 Losers
Kazari Uiharu @ Toaru Kagaku No Railgun
Chiho Sasaki @ Hataraku Maou-sama!

Round 3 Losers
Sakurako Oomuro @ Yuru Yuri
Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi @ Hentai Ouji To Warawanai Neko

Group Finalists
Yoshino @ Date A Live
Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri

[hinakatbklyn]

Awesome Results!
- Convincing win for Kobato.
- Ruri already proved my original prediction wrong (I should have more faith in my favorites) First she wins her match against Tsukiko (with some help from the new rules), now she wins against Akari who was first in her prelim group and with a higher vote total. (And in the process, Tsukiko is still part of repchange)

I may be delusional..... but just for today, among the top 16 already decided:
Hanazawa reps = 3 (Tomoka, Kobato, Kuroneko)
PMMM reps = 2 (I think Sayaka will win her match and increase the total to 3 while Madoka will eventually increase that number to 4)
Oreimo reps = 2 (Kuroneko, Ayase)

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Subayai

A modification to the new rules has been implemented today:
From now on, results before and after vote exclusion will be released for all matches, independently if the winners change or not.

Good.

In exchange, the list of suspicious codes will not be released in any case, so no one will be able to know if his vote was counted or not.

Why do they want people to not know if their vote was counted?

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by hinakatbklyn

I may be delusional..... but just for today, among the top 16 already decided:
Hanazawa reps = 3 (Tomoka, Kobato, Kuroneko)
PMMM reps = 2 (I think Sayaka will win her match and increase the total to 3 while Madoka will eventually increase that number to 4)
Oreimo reps = 2 (Kuroneko, Ayase)

Now if Watashi wins then Kirino will be part of repechage, happy to OreImo fans

[Subayai]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Why do they want people to not know if their vote was counted?

The admins argue that if the multivoters know which votes are not counted, they could come up with countermeasures.

The admins have no sure way to ascertain if a vote is a multivote or not. If a vote "appears" to be a multivote, is eliminated. It's all based on the admins' intuition (and that's assuming that the admins are honest). If the multivoters knew the admins' criteria to eliminate votes, they could disguise their multivotes better. These criteria could be deduced by looking at which votes are not counted.

On the negative side, now the admins have less pressure to decide if they eliminate a vote or not. While it is good that we have the post-purge results now, this new rule gives yet a little bit more power to the admins. We have to trust them completely.

[ion475]

Congrats to KN and Kobato. Akarin still has a good chance in repchange, though, hope both her and Tsukiko pull through...

As for last day...
F Final: Pick/Predict: Watashi. Don't see AhoMaho as particularly strong other than being the first person to benefit from the purge (And I'm not even a fan of Nonoka...)
H Final: Pick/Predict: Sayaka. I had my doubt at the beginning, but knowing Kyoani all but disappear...

Now if Watashi wins then Kirino will be part of repechage, happy to OreImo fans

True Oreimo fan don't care about Kiririn anyway. We all know Ayase is the true end while KN is the good end.

[Ichuki]

Predictions- Watashi and Sayaka
Pick- Maho and Sayaka

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by Subayai

Results for Group Finals Day 3
Before multivote exclusion
Ef
1st 282 Kobato Hasegawa @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
2nd 133 Yoshino @ Date A Live

Gf
1st 256 Kuroneko (Ruri Gokou) @ Ore No Imouto Ga Konna Ni Kawaii Wake Ga Nai
2nd 213 Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri

EDIT
After multivote exclusion
Ef
1st 247 Kobato Hasegawa @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
2nd 122 Yoshino @ Date A Live

Gf
1st 223 Kuroneko (Ruri Gokou) @ Ore No Imouto Ga Konna Ni Kawaii Wake Ga Nai
2nd 193 Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri

=============================================

A modification to the new rules has been implemented today:
From now on, results before and after vote exclusion will be released for all matches, independently if the winners change or not. In exchange, the list of suspicious codes will not be released in any case, so no one will be able to know if his vote was counted or not.

Sigh... I hope Yoshino makes it through repechage... though it seems unlikely, given the way she lost.

Grats to the winners though. I'm surprised Akari lost. Though seems like she's got a good chance at repechage.

Seems like the new rules will shake things up even more.

Originally Posted by Subayai

The admins argue that if the multivoters know which votes are not counted, they could come up with countermeasures.

The admins have no sure way to ascertain if a vote is a multivote or not. If a vote "appears" to be a multivote, is eliminated. It's all based on the admins' intuition (and that's assuming that the admins are honest). If the multivoters knew the admins' criteria to eliminate votes, they could disguise their multivotes better. These criteria could be deduced by looking at which votes are not counted.

On the negative side, now the admins have less pressure to decide if they eliminate a vote or not. While it is good that we have the post-purge results now, this new rule gives yet a little bit more power to the admins. We have to trust them completely.

Oh goody.

I foresee MadoMagi's girls getting knocked out in the round of 16...

[Aya Reiko]

Spoiler for The Big Board:

Guessing...
Watashi & Sayaka

[Team Rocket Elite]

Kobato makes it look easy and Kuroneko has a solid win over Akari. I did call Kuroneko to win, but I expected Akari to put up a bit more of a fight. So far that's three Hanazawa Kana characters in the top 16, two Puella Magi and Ayase.

[anisu]

Originally Posted by Subayai

In exchange, the list of suspicious codes will not be released in any case, so no one will be able to know if his vote was counted or not.

ahahahahahahha AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Sorry, I couldn't help it. This leaves no doubt that the admins are either rigging or frustrated by the rigors of their job and taking it out on community. Either way, it's bad for the tournament.

Looking at what happened with Saki, we had 343 for Arata on 10/7, 419 for Ryuuka on 10/8, and 189 for Shizu on 10/10 (despite Shizu getting 272 and 275 in earlier rounds). 10/9 was, of course, the Nodoka match where she got 196 (after doing 302 and 398 before) and the admins intervened. Nodoka was the repechage gateway for Misaka. You'll recall she was the center of the tournament's biggest cheating scandal, and the subject of some spamming this year.

The way I see it, the admins anticipated heavy cheating by the old Misaka cheaters in that match, and took a scorched earth approach which had a bunch of false positives. They shut down the cheaters, but legitimate Saki voters were thrown out too, took it personally, and boycotted. (Even the ones who plan to come back in future years have reasons to cooperate, as losing here will defuse anti-Saki sentiment over last year)

What if the admins are now enraged about being boycotted over what they perceived as necessary measures to stop blatant cheating? They see accusations being hurled, DDoS attacks, and voters dropping like flies (especially since the 10/5 Matsumi vs Mami battle was the true championship match, much like how Toki vs Akari was last time). If we assume they're stubborn enough to stand by their decisions and stay the course, they'll see the naysayers as being in the wrong and deserving of a slapdown.

So if my guesses are correct, the tournament is on the path to destruction even if the admins aren't rigging (and it's very possible that they are).

It's unfortunate to see Saimoe like this and at a point where there's not enough voters around to challenge a rampant faction, but it's been fun over the years, and at least my two favorite series ended up thoroughly conquering the tournament.

As for alternative saimoes, I won't be participating in ISML much because I find the league format boring, but I consider their Nova division to be the heir to saimoe. Think of the Nova winner as each year's real saimoe if J-Saimoe isn't able to recover.

[KanbeKotori]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

I've been theorising that Saki's decline was due to the admins initiating it and the fans quitting propagating it, but I need more proof. First, I need to include fake votes inside my graphs, but I can't get the vote counter to work...

I was shooting Saki, but now I'm shooting the AST organisers. I wanted Saki to go down, but not like that. I still don't want MadoMagi to go down (not like what happened to Saki anyway), now I want the AST organisers to go down. Unless they do a 180° and fix things (which is highly unlikely anyway).

Firstly, you could ask Hachiko for the settings or just ask it here and tell them to PM you. ._. My tracker is working fine and dandy the last time I used it.

No worries for you, chances of MadoMagi going down is very low since from the start, I've already told you their fanbase is pretty huge. While I was in Kanagawa I didn't see much MadoMagi stuff, but walking around some other cities and such and you'll be able to see them. It's very apparent how popular MadoMagi is. Unless the admins have some kind of grudge against past AST demolishers, MadoMagi will survive.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

Wow. No wonder. Thanks for the info.

No problem. Glad I could help. MAYBE.....you should be more active in ISML as you are here ._.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

Rest assured it's not sarcasm. Serious question here.

So you're saying that you knew that AST would screw up Saki? Hmm.

What I wonder is why and how MadoMagi would escape unscathed while a faction like Chuu2 didn't, if it wasn't even a target.

(inb4 it turns out that it's simply because MadoMagi were also multivoting, just that they haven't been caught yet or the admins are letting it)

Well, had not Saki demolish last year's AST so badly, they would have suffered a little lesser. A LITTLE lesser only. Oh and yes I DO know cos before I participate in something, I always check its history and ask around for info etc so I can actually paint a picture of how it's going to go. If it isn't appealing, I won't step in. If it is, I don't mind giving it a try and I can say that my first experience here wasn't as pleasant as my first experience in ISML(my maiden participation for ISML is also this year).

You might not have known this but the fashion that Saki won last year's AST pissed quite a few people in 2ch.

As for why Chuunibyou is not doing well, I'll reserve my comments for that.
I'm also holding back my comments for MadoMagi till the semi-finals to confirm something. My friends haven't get back to me fully yet so I can't paint any picture out but from what I see, it doesn't matter anymore. The tourney is already rigged(I can safely say that) so idk to you what it means but to me whoever who wins this year's AST is just unfortunate to win a tourney with such circumstances.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

I beg to differ. If you would be kind enough to actually go back I didn't post all of that negativity whenever a Saki girl lost. One being I already know that the weaker Saki girls who will lose to a non-Saki/Mado girl and another being that it's understandable that Yuu lost. Now aren't you the one who is trying to pin everything in the wrong direction?

I don't know why you find it hard to admit that you're a big Saki supporter. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I think that Saki, as a franchise, captures moe very well. I'm glad a Saki girl won in 2012, it's just unfortunate that Saki as a faction had to dominate to such a degree that they truly and totally steamrolled the entire tournament. But, to be fair, that's as much the fault of a relatively weak field of girls as it is the fault of Saki's strength.

I think that Coldlight is just annoyed at you playing coy here. I think it's best when people are up-front about their preferences in a moe competition. If anything, it would help your case - If anybody should be massively pissed over J-SaiMoe 2013 it's a "Many of my favorite girls are Saki girls" person. I slightly prefer Madoka Magica to Saki, and even I'm a little bit pissed at Nodoka being screwed.

I certainly get that Saki girls aren't the only ones you like, much like how Madoka Magica girls aren't the only ones Coldlight and I like. But it's fine to admit that a lot of your favorite girls in this tournament are Saki girls.

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Well, had not Saki demolish last year's AST so badly, they would have suffered a little lesser. A LITTLE lesser only. Oh and yes I DO know cos before I participate in something, I always check its history and ask around for info etc so I can actually paint a picture of how it's going to go. If it isn't appealing, I won't step in. If it is, I don't mind giving it a try and I can say that my first experience here wasn't as pleasant as my first experience in ISML(my maiden participation for ISML is also this year).

You might not have known this but the fashion that Saki won last year's AST pissed quite a few people in 2ch.

So what you are saying is that the AST itself is somewhat biased? So lets say, what if MadoMagi won this year's AST (again) and pissed another few people in 2ch? Does that mean they will hit MadoMagi again?

I dont think this is considered a fair fight anymore... If dominating/steamrolling the entire tournament makes a franchise suffer, then what is the reason for having AST?

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

As for why Chuunibyou is not doing well, I'll reserve my comments for that.
I'm also holding back my comments for MadoMagi till the semi-finals to confirm something. My friends haven't get back to me fully yet so I can't paint any picture out but from what I see, it doesn't matter anymore. The tourney is already rigged(I can safely say that) so idk to you what it means but to me whoever who wins this year's AST is just unfortunate to win a tourney with such circumstances.

I agree... (Just checked the Saimoe results and it is quite shocking.)

Does ISML also have this problem of rigged tourney by the way? (Havent really seen it yet.)

Note: I am on Neutral Ground when it comes to this.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

No worries for you, chances of MadoMagi going down is very low since from the start, I've already told you their fanbase is pretty huge. While I was in Kanagawa I didn't see much MadoMagi stuff, but walking around some other cities and such and you'll be able to see them. It's very apparent how popular MadoMagi is. Unless the admins have some kind of grudge against past AST demolishers, MadoMagi will survive.

You said that MadoMagi going down is very low, so why last year it is different?

As for the ones in bold, you do know that that can be considered rigging the tournament already?(A chance that might happen in the later parts of this Saimoe, but lets wait and see the trend.)

[Coldlight]

Double win for the HanaKana combo yesterday. That makes me happy.

The fight continues today for us Sayaka fans.

Picks:
Main Character @ Mankind Has Declined
Sayaka Miki @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Originally Posted by Subayai

A modification to the new rules has been implemented today:
From now on, results before and after vote exclusion will be released for all matches, independently if the winners change or not. In exchange, the list of suspicious codes will not be released in any case, so no one will be able to know if his vote was counted or not.

Finally, a degree of transparency - this should be somewhat useful for anyone still bothering to keep statistics, though they should take it one step further and make the ruling retroactive for the other matches not covered by the modification.

TL;DR…

increasingly off-topic argument

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