Anime Saimoe Tournament 2013 (Japan)

[Triple_R]

Here's an analogy that pro wrestling fans should get, and hopefully will help explain why Saki is facing more backlash than Madoka Magica is...

Madoka Magica in J-SaiMoe 2011 is like the nWo back when it was just five guys (Hollywood Hogan, Hall, Nash, The Giant, and Eric Bischoff). If you were a WCW fan who didn't like the nWo, then yeah, it's a bit of a pain. But at least most of the matches had nothing to do with the nWo. It's only when you get to the very top of the card that their presence is truly felt.

Saki in J-SaiMoe 2012 is like the nWo back when it was seemingly half of the entire freaking roster. Even most nWo fans admit that it got too big in sheer numbers for its own good. And if you were a WCW fan who didn't like the nWo, then there was pretty much no point to watching WCW because the nWo was in most of the matches! If you didn't like the nWo, then WCW was ruined for you at the time.

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Firstly, you could ask Hachiko for the settings or just ask it here and tell them to PM you. ._. My tracker is working fine and dandy the last time I used it.

OK, someone help please.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

No worries for you, chances of MadoMagi going down is very low since from the start, I've already told you their fanbase is pretty huge. While I was in Kanagawa I didn't see much MadoMagi stuff, but walking around some other cities and such and you'll be able to see them. It's very apparent how popular MadoMagi is. Unless the admins have some kind of grudge against past AST demolishers, MadoMagi will survive.

Oh yes they do. Remember what happened to Saki, despite their fanbase. Early on Saki was a genuine threat.

31 of 293 girls (10.580%) in round 1 were Saki girls.
13 of 99 girls (13.131%) in round 2 were Saki girls.
9 of 32 girls (28.125%) in round 3 were Saki girls.

It's likely the AST organisers saw the threat, which mirrored what happened last year:

43 of 289 girls (14.879%) in round 1 were Saki girls.
15 of 97 girls (15.464%) in round 2 were Saki girls.
10 of 32 girls (31.25%) in round 3 were Saki girls.
9 of 16 girls (56.25%) in round 4 were Saki girls.
And it got worse from there.

Thus, they took measures to cripple them.

Only 2 of 16 girls (12.5%) in the group finals were Saki girls, both of which lost.

MadoMagi's likely to suffer "suspicious" vote removals and their girls will... y'know. Unless them organisers are biased towards MadoMagi, that is. Perfect timing to do so too.

Now to kill the girls off one by one, starting with the biggest of all threats...

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

No problem. Glad I could help. MAYBE.....you should be more active in ISML as you are here ._.

Not really interested in ISML, actually. I prefer the tournament format.

Btw Japanese ACGN's Saimoe's round 1 serves as the prelim round. Quite an interesting feel.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Well, had not Saki demolish last year's AST so badly, they would have suffered a little lesser. A LITTLE lesser only. Oh and yes I DO know cos before I participate in something, I always check its history and ask around for info etc so I can actually paint a picture of how it's going to go. If it isn't appealing, I won't step in. If it is, I don't mind giving it a try and I can say that my first experience here wasn't as pleasant as my first experience in ISML(my maiden participation for ISML is also this year).

Which wouldn't have made much difference. Maybe Nodoka would have scraped past Maho instead of losing so badly?

Wow ok.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

You might not have known this but the fashion that Saki won last year's AST pissed quite a few people in 2ch.

Yeah I know that, but certainly the way Saki won last year is nothing compared to what's happening now?

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

As for why Chuunibyou is not doing well, I'll reserve my comments for that.
I'm also holding back my comments for MadoMagi till the semi-finals to confirm something. My friends haven't get back to me fully yet so I can't paint any picture out but from what I see, it doesn't matter anymore. The tourney is already rigged(I can safely say that) so idk to you what it means but to me whoever who wins this year's AST is just unfortunate to win a tourney with such circumstances.

Well, what happened to Chuu2 made me suspect that Saki girls weren't the only target. As much as I'd like to blame it on the organisers favouring MadoMagi, I have absolutely no proof.

It means the same to me as it does to you.

Originally Posted by Coldlight

Finally, a degree of transparency - this should be somewhat useful for anyone still bothering to keep statistics, though they should take it one step further and make the ruling retroactive for the other matches not covered by the modification.

Wow, that's some TL;DR. But I read it anyway.

Some transparency that is. MadoMagi better watch out.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Here's an analogy that pro wrestling fans should get, and hopefully will help explain why Saki is facing more backlash than Madoka Magica is...

Madoka Magica in J-SaiMoe 2011 is like the nWo back when it was just five guys (Hollywood Hogan, Hall, Nash, The Giant, and Eric Bischoff). If you were a WCW fan who didn't like the nWo, then yeah, it's a bit of a pain. But at least most of the matches had nothing to do with the nWo. It's only when you get to the very top of the card that their presence is truly felt.

Saki in J-SaiMoe 2012 is like the nWo back when it was seemingly half of the entire freaking roster. Even most nWo fans admit that it got too big in sheer numbers for its own good. And if you were a WCW fan who didn't like the nWo, then there was pretty much no point to watching WCW because the nWo was in most of the matches! If you didn't like the nWo, then WCW was ruined for you at the time.

According to TV Tropes (see Pro Wrestling section), it was WCW's fault for letting go of so many of its talents and regarding them to be useless.

[Wanderer]

It might just be that 2ch really, legitimately, likes PMMM, and the recent crackdown is allowing PMMM to win as they naturally would have without all the foreign/multi voters.

So I don't find it all that implausible that the admins aren't being dishonest.

Or maybe they are and the tournament is 100% rigged. We don't know.

[Eisdrache]

Or maybe the tournament in its current state is dead.

[npal]

O_o The tournament seems to be going more and more to hell each year... Oh, the fun... I miss the good old days.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

OK, someone help please.

I'll PM you

[ion475]

Pre-"purge" result:

Ff: Watashi 318-167 Maho
Hf: Sayaka 316-199 Chitanda

With the margin, the winners are more or less confirm...

EDIT: Post-purge (Final) result:
Ff: Watashi 285-153 Maho
Hf: Sayaka 280-183 Chitanda

[Subayai]

As the Fairies would say:
It's hard to explain in one sentence but Watashi wins.

And Sayaka too of course.

[hinakatbklyn]

Maho was already advancing past the group finals anyway, so the only real suspense for me was whether or not Maho could win and keep Hinagiku in the tournament. Turned out to be a sleeper match day.

[Subayai]

Oh, I just assumed ion was about to put the final results. Well then here:

Ff
1st 285 Watashi @ Jinrui Wa Suitai Shimashita
2nd 153 Maho Misawa @ Ro-Kyu-Bu!

Hf
1st 280 Sayaka Miki @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica
2nd 183 Eru Chitanda @ Hyouka

==================================

The repechage lottery draw will be tomorrow Friday from 00:40 to 01:10 (Japan Time).

Spoiler for All characters going to repechage:

Round 1 Losers
Koneko Toujou @ High School DxD
Aoi Futaba @ Vividred Operation
Akane Akaza @ Yuru Yuri
Awai Oohoshi @ Saki
Katyusha @ Girls Und Panzer
Takane Shijou @ The Idolmaster
Azusa Miura @ The Idolmaster
Kirino Kousaka @ Ore No Imouto Ga Konna Ni Kawaii Wake Ga Nai
Haruka Minami @ Minami-ke

Round 2 Losers
Yozora Mikazuki @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
Mihoko Fukuji @ Saki
Madoka Kaname @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Kyouko Toshinou @ Yuru Yuri
Kazari Uiharu @ Toaru Kagaku No Railgun
Chiho Sasaki @ Hataraku Maou-sama!
Akiko Himenokouji @ Onii-chan Dakedo Ai Sae Areba Kankeinai Yo Ne!
Teru Miyanaga @ Saki

Round 3 Losers
Yuu Matsumi @ Saki
Rikka Takanashi @ Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai!
Kirame Hanada @ Saki
Arata Sagimori @ Saki
Sakurako Oomuro @ Yuru Yuri
Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi @ Hentai Ouji To Warawanai Neko
Sawa Okita @ Tari Tari
Kuroko Shirai @ Toaru Kagaku No Railgun

Group Finalists
Toki Onjouji @ Saki
Azusa Azuki @ Hentai Ouji To Warawanai Neko
Miho Nishizumi @ Girls Und Panzer
Ryuuka Shimizudani @ Saki
Yoshino @ Date A Live
Akari Akaza @ Yuru Yuri
Maho Misawa @ Ro-Kyu-Bu!
Eru Chitanda @ Hyouka

[Aya Reiko]

Spoiler for The Big Board:

I'm in the camp that does not believe they're rigging the thing as the only group that seems to be adversely affected are the Saki girls. It's much more believable that an individual or individuals were multi-voting them rather than the admins rigging things, especially with them being more transparent it.

That said, some of this conversation is starting to tread into Kinny Riddle territory...

[Archaeon]

I can't read Japanese but did the Japanese complain about the new rule?

But yeah..won't be surprised if the admin do in fact rigged it.

[Coldlight]

Seeking to satisfy her curiosity, Eru approached her opponent Sayaka for the big question as the match ended. Sayaka answered:

Images

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With hands on hips, Sayaka used a bit of illusion magic she learned from Kyouko for a while to appear in a KyoAni-esque style while she watched over her disappointed opponent head to the repechage section of the arena.

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"Say hello to Madoka for me if you meet her there."

----

Sayaka kept the hopes of her fans and the momentum of her faction going by capping off the Group Finals round with a win for block H, moving forward into the ranks of other Group Final winners and joining her two comrades already there. Congrats to Watashi as well for winning her match.

[Subayai]

Originally Posted by Coldlight

Finally, a degree of transparency - this should be somewhat useful for anyone still bothering to keep statistics, though they should take it one step further and make the ruling retroactive for the other matches not covered by the modification.

Originally Posted by Aya Reiko

I'm in the camp that does not believe they're rigging the thing as the only group that seems to be adversely affected are the Saki girls. It's much more believable that an individual or individuals were multi-voting them rather than the admins rigging things, especially with them being more transparent it.

That said, some of this conversation is starting to tread into Kinny Riddle territory...

I don't know if the admins are riggin or not rigging and to better enjoy the rest of the tournament I'll just pretend they are not rigging.

However, let's make this clear: the modification to the new rules that was applied yesterday does NOT give more transparency. All the contrary, it takes away the little bit of transparency the tournament had left.

To get the post-purge results is good for those keeping statistics, yes that's right, but that's all the good it does. For the transparency of tournament, it is far more important to know which votes are counted and which are not. Without knowing that, the admins could, if they wanted, make up the results and no one would know a thing.

[Archaeon]

You know,having rule change in the middle of the tournament is really suspicious.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

It might just be that 2ch really, legitimately, likes PMMM, and the recent crackdown is allowing PMMM to win as they naturally would have without all the foreign/multi voters.

So I don't find it all that implausible that the admins aren't being dishonest.

Are Saki even that popular on any country outside Japan? Saki did awful in ISML.

[Coldlight]

Originally Posted by Subayai

To get the post-purge results is good for those keeping statistics, yes that's right, but that's all the good it does. For the transparency of tournament, it is far more important to know which votes are counted and which are not. Without knowing that, the admins could, if they wanted, make up the results and no one would know a thing.

That's why I said, to a degree. Most definitely not full or complete transparency. For all you know I could have meant the tournament only became ~1% more transparent than before because knowing the pre- and post- vote counts are still more transparent by a little bit than being totally opaque about all of it.

You do have a point about them being able to fabricate results without the ideal scenario of releasing all relevant information. But why would the new ruling detract from "what little transparency" the tournament had? At worst, shouldn't the new ruling still keep us in the dark about exactly which votes were thrown out - which I believe is the same as before, not worse?

I'd like to think it's a sign of the admins yielding to the mounting complaints against them by just a tiny bit. Even though they never make the good, bold decisions we want them to.

[Hachiko]

Spoiler for graphics:

[Triple_R]

Big congrats to Sayaka! And congrats to Watashi as well.

I'm very pleased to see both move on to the Final 16 without needing repechage.

And now it's time for the obligatory longer-haired Sayaka pick to maintain iamdooddood's support.

Spoiler for "Is this hair long enough, iamdooddood-sama?" - Sayaka:

However, I have to admit I'm slightly disappointed here. While I obviously wanted Sayaka to win, I'm disappointed that Eru didn't even manage 200 votes. KyoAni has certainly fallen in moe competitions, haven't they?

But more importantly, I'm a bit worried that Sayaka didn't crack 300 votes. There's no good reason for Sayaka to hide her strength at this point, given its block finals. I'm hoping that Mami voters will throw more of their support behind Sayaka once the Final 16 begins. I also hope that Sayaka isn't so incredibly unfortunate as to once again draw another PMMM girl in her very first match of the Final 8/16.

Still, these slight misgivings notwithstanding, it's great to see Sayaka win again! Someone in particular is very happy to see Sayaka move on, and she shows that appreciation during a big Puella Magi celebration at Mami's apartment.

Spoiler for Time for tea and cake and pocky!:

[Ichuki]

I guess having 19/33 favourites in repcharge is decent.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Subayai

I don't know if the admins are riggin or not rigging and to better enjoy the rest of the tournament I'll just pretend they are not rigging.

However, let's make this clear: the modification to the new rules that was applied yesterday does NOT give more transparency. All the contrary, it takes away the little bit of transparency the tournament had left.

I'm completely with Coldlight here. How does revealing more create less transparency?

Sorry, Subayai, but your argument here doesn't even make sense.

By knowing pre and post-purge results, we can see the impact of the rule change. That's more transparent, and it's good to see.

And to be fair, let's consider the possibility that there really has been a fair bit of cheating in this tournament. If so, doesn't it make sense for the J-SaiMoe admins to want to withhold information that could empower the cheaters to cheat more effectively? If you're a cheater and you know that one of your codes was one of the ones thrown out, then you're going to try to get more different codes.

I'm certainly not entirely happy with how this situation has been handled, but I can imagine this being a hard and tough call for the admins.

To get the post-purge results is good for those keeping statistics, yes that's right, but that's all the good it does.

I disagree. Again, it shows us the exact impact of the rule change, which is good for more reason than simply keeping statistics. It shows us where the rule change has a big impact, and where the rule change has little impact. Patterns may develop there, giving us clearer insight into how legitimate the rule change is and/or which specific girls and/or factions its impacting the most.