AnimeSuki Forums

FrostWolf · 2007-04-28, 05:55

Wow! one of the few writers in the world with stable employment

Hussar67 · 2007-04-28, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hussar67

I just picked up my copy of TSR 4 (Best Buy, as usual, put it on the shelves before the release date, haha!

). Interesting note: in the booklet ADV or FUNimation (whoever did the translation and/or editing of the booklet) translated the Amalgam ASes as "Chodar" rather than "Codarl", so expect to see that term come into more use by FMP fans. I had read previously somewhere that all of Amalgam's ASes were named from Biblical references (i.e. Behemoth, Leviathan, and Belial); anyone on the board know where "Arastol/Alastor" and "Chodar/Codarl" are coming from? Just curious.

ADDENDUM: Just watched the English dub, and the term "Codarl" is used, not Chodar -- for some reason the dub translation doesn't match the printed booklet translation (probably because ADV did the dub and FUNimation or Kadokawa did the translation for the booklet).

[Even funnier, in the ending credits on the DVD, the English voice credits say "Clouseau" and the Japanese voice credits say "Clouzot" -- I guess they're trying to hit all their bases, lol

]

Miles Teg · 2007-04-28, 11:30

Plan0601 Leviathan

Plan1055 Belial
Plan1056 Chodar
Plan1058 Chodar-i
Plan1059 Chodar-m
Planxxxx Eligor

Plan1211 Alastor

Plan1501 Behemoth

About the Chodar he is one of the most important demon and the necromancians call him Belial (Bélial/Béliol)

I have only been able to find info on the Chodar on French website.

The name of the Lieutenant should be Clouzot since it's a "valid" and well known French family name.

FrostWolf · 2007-04-29, 01:02

Going over the article and making some Dan Brown type notes you find that Belial has paralells to Leaonard. Whilst at first glance he appears evil other interpretations have him as a martyr of good like Leonard his character is more complex that what is originally seen. And like leonard Belial is Lord of Lies so you never really know what Leonard is telling you

Otakon · 2007-04-29, 01:06

he doesn't love kaname thats for sure. he just lusts for her because he see's that some one can actually fall in love with someone that has had a troubled past, he see's that she loves sousuke.

and it makes him jealous.

Missilebuster · 2007-04-29, 13:29

sousuke might have connections to the leviathan too, it seems that god created him to play with, kinda like how sousuke is depicted as a big dog

Hussar67 · 2007-04-29, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

Plan0601 Leviathan

Plan1055 Belial
Plan1056 Chodar
Plan1058 Chodar-i
Plan1059 Chodar-m
Planxxxx Eligor

Plan1211 Alastor

Plan1501 Behemoth

About the Chodar he is one of the most important demon and the necromancians call him Belial (Bélial/Béliol)

I have only been able to find info on the Chodar on French website.

The name of the Lieutenant should be Clouzot since it's a "valid" and well known French family name.

Thanks! You rock.

HunterSeeker · 2007-04-29, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otakon

he doesn't love kaname thats for sure. he just lusts for her because he see's that some one can actually fall in love with someone that has had a troubled past, he see's that she loves sousuke.

and it makes him jealous.

I think he is. If not, what's the point of stealing her first kiss?
And he did treat her well in the mansion IMO.

Otakon · 2007-04-30, 07:31

people do things that seem like love but its really lust. he doesn't even know kaname. and the reason he stole her first kiss was so it would cause confusion between kaname's feelings for sousuke so when the time came to take her away she would break down and follow his orders. its a type of mental 'attack' a person would do when they want to change a persons feelings. also if he truly loved her he wouldn't have taken her away from her home he would have protected her from amalgam.

you will see if he really loved her when he wakes up. kaname has done worst to sousuke and he still stays by her side. he gets a little scrape and hes gonna be a B@#$%.

Hussar67 · 2007-04-30, 09:44

I think Leonard loves Kaname; or rather, he thinks he loves Kaname. Leonard has no basis for understanding love, so IMO he wants Kaname (to possess her) and he believes that's love. Also, he's an egotist. Remember, both Tessa's and the narration's descriptions of his thoughts in COMO: he's never failed at anything, if he wants Kaname he immediately assumes he will have her; to him, that he loves Kaname means she must necessarily be destined for him. This also jives with his belief that Whispereds are superior and normal humans like Sousuke are peons and worms -- how could she possibly REALLY be in love with Sousuke? she needs to be pulled into his aristocratic world and he believes that once exposed to that world, she will necessarily abandon her old beliefs.

IMO, Leonard really is just a god in his own mind and he's incapable of "love" as most people reckon it. He assumes what he wants is what anyone would want, anyone who doesn't is an inferior breed (Sousuke) or deluded (Tessa and Kaname). I think that he loves himself so much--and has had any other woman he's wanted in the past--that Kaname wouldn't be seduced by him is inconceivable. Also, he's obviously in it for the chase: he's in love with Kaname mostly because she rejects him (we want what we can't have). I think if Kaname had given herself to Leonard, he'd become bored with her after a while and find another object to pursue. That is how Leonard loves Kaname: as an object to be held.

He's going to get a rude awakening when he wakes up.

Otakon · 2007-04-30, 10:06

thats not love though. just cause he thinks its love it still isn't. wants what he cant have, that is lust all the way.

definition of lust.

Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification.

im not too religious but a good explanation for love is, John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Love is sacrifice. and Leonard has not sacrificed anything for her. sousuke gave his kidney and half of his liver to try to save her.

Hussar67 · 2007-04-30, 10:28

Well, now we're in the danger of just splitting semantics. It's coming down to "love" and being "in love". Leonard is definitely "in love" with Kaname. The question is whether "LOVE" is an absolute concept that cannot be altered from circumstance to circumstance. That is, whether or not the perception of love equals love. This is not just pointless philosophizing because it's an emotion: that we feel we feel it, means we feel it (so to speak). What Leonard feels for Kaname is not love to us (or to her), but it is definitely love to Leonard. I'm just saying it's not a love that goes both ways, but it is "love" for Leonard. That it's love in his mind alone still makes it "love" for him.

And play with the scenario a little bit: Sousuke wants to protect Kaname above all. What does Leonard want? He wants to protect her, too; except his way is twisted (to us it is, but NOT TO HIM). He's basically vowed to protect her and free her from what he's certain is a horrible life. Same thing Sousuke's doing in trying to free her from Leonard. So Leonard's love is still love, but it's love to him alone. To everyone else it's stalking.

TigerII · 2007-04-30, 10:41

I wouldn't worry about him loving her. For it to be a successful relationship, one would have to be loved back. Kaname does not love him, she loves Souske. So even if he loves her, it is one sided.

hobbes_fan · 2007-04-30, 13:05

See I'm startng to thnk the Kaname/Sousuke relationship is somewhat like what what some hostages feel towards their captors and vice versa, something like a Stockholm Syndrome for those unfamiliar see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome. Sousuke for all intents and purposes is Kaname's bodyguard, he is responsible for her well being. I'm starting to think that because of the close proximity to each other they maybe confusing duty/obligation with love.

Over analysis more than lkely but if it doesn't work out that they're paired up in the end I wouldn't be surprised

TigerII · 2007-04-30, 14:57

Well, I have thought of that too. I think Kaname has legitimate feelings for Souske, but I have often wondered if Souske has confused his strong sense of duty as love. But they probably won't get together anyways. One will probably die and the other will mourn, and alot of FMP fans will be upset. Tragic, no?

Otakon · 2007-04-30, 20:44

sousuke definintly loves her. there are plenty of references that says he loves her. like when he said he doesn't care anymore about life because he thought kaname was gone, what point was there to live with out kaname there. he also said it to tessa.

Tessa asks him "do you love ms. chidori."

sousuke"i believe that is affirmative"

neither are confused. they spoke there mind clearly but it was the fact that it was his duty to protect her that kept them from expressing there feelings. because neither one knew what either was feeling.

also with Leonard still even if he thinks its love to him yes it is love to him but its still not love. lust or infatuation thats what he is. remember what i said love is a sacrifice, that statement is a constant with definitions of love.

hobbes_fan · 2007-04-30, 23:11

But does he really? He's said it fine, but with all the examples you pointed out, is he unhappy because he failed. (Kaname's "death", most bodyguards "love" or at the very least care about their ward) Remember Tessa also carries the burden of being sousuke's boss. He's a professional and on more than one occasion he has uttered that personal feelings shouldn't enter the job.

Because it seems to me he's fallen more in love with the idea of being a normal 17/yo. I'm just not sold that by the end of this that all will be paired up nice and neatly

Otakon · 2007-05-01, 00:46

yes he does. he has started to calm down and become more aware of his feeling. for example when he asked to hold kaname's hand and he was blushing. good example he loves her in the normal way. not bodyguard and protected status.

also Tessa saying that was her sneaky little way of keeping sousuke's affections for kaname in check so she could give him attention. Tessa can see his love for kaname. but Tessa gave up on sousuke because she knew she couldn't have him. now she probably will never say that again.

also sousuke said 'even when he is dun protecting her could he stay with her.' to kaname in the first season when the TDD was under attack.

oh also listen to 'far away' by nickleback the song fits where the story is perfectly. lol

Miles Teg · 2007-05-01, 02:41

And (one of) the point of ODBD/TSR was to show that Sousuke was with Chidori because he loves her and not because of duty (like before).

FrostWolf · 2007-05-01, 04:26

Wait a minute Love is a two way street a person must be able to give love as well as recieve it So Chidori and Leonard cant work

2007-04-28, 11:30	Link #1743
Miles Teg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Le Mans, France	Plan0601 Leviathan Plan1055 Belial Plan1056 Chodar Plan1058 Chodar-i Plan1059 Chodar-m Planxxxx Eligor Plan1211 Alastor Plan1501 Behemoth About the Chodar he is one of the most important demon and the necromancians call him Belial (Bélial/Béliol) I have only been able to find info on the Chodar on French website. The name of the Lieutenant should be Clouzot since it's a "valid" and well known French family name. Last edited by Miles Teg; 2007-04-28 at 12:46.

2007-04-29, 13:29	Link #1746
Missilebuster gg, uninstall Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA... yay politicians...	sousuke might have connections to the leviathan too, it seems that god created him to play with, kinda like how sousuke is depicted as a big dog __________________ "I'm not going there to die. I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." ~Spike Spiegel

2007-04-28, 05:55	Link #1741
FrostWolf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia	Wow! one of the few writers in the world with stable employment

2007-04-29, 01:02	Link #1744
FrostWolf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia	Going over the article and making some Dan Brown type notes you find that Belial has paralells to Leaonard. Whilst at first glance he appears evil other interpretations have him as a martyr of good like Leonard his character is more complex that what is originally seen. And like leonard Belial is Lord of Lies so you never really know what Leonard is telling you

2007-04-29, 01:06	Link #1745
Otakon True Hero Saves The Girl Join Date: Feb 2007	he doesn't love kaname thats for sure. he just lusts for her because he see's that some one can actually fall in love with someone that has had a troubled past, he see's that she loves sousuke. and it makes him jealous.

2007-04-30, 07:31	Link #1749
Otakon True Hero Saves The Girl Join Date: Feb 2007	people do things that seem like love but its really lust. he doesn't even know kaname. and the reason he stole her first kiss was so it would cause confusion between kaname's feelings for sousuke so when the time came to take her away she would break down and follow his orders. its a type of mental 'attack' a person would do when they want to change a persons feelings. also if he truly loved her he wouldn't have taken her away from her home he would have protected her from amalgam. you will see if he really loved her when he wakes up. kaname has done worst to sousuke and he still stays by her side. he gets a little scrape and hes gonna be a B@#$%.

2007-04-30, 09:44	Link #1750
Hussar67 Old school NES Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Virginia, USA	I think Leonard loves Kaname; or rather, he thinks he loves Kaname. Leonard has no basis for understanding love, so IMO he wants Kaname (to possess her) and he believes that's love. Also, he's an egotist. Remember, both Tessa's and the narration's descriptions of his thoughts in COMO: he's never failed at anything, if he wants Kaname he immediately assumes he will have her; to him, that he loves Kaname means she must necessarily be destined for him. This also jives with his belief that Whispereds are superior and normal humans like Sousuke are peons and worms -- how could she possibly REALLY be in love with Sousuke? she needs to be pulled into his aristocratic world and he believes that once exposed to that world, she will necessarily abandon her old beliefs. IMO, Leonard really is just a god in his own mind and he's incapable of "love" as most people reckon it. He assumes what he wants is what anyone would want, anyone who doesn't is an inferior breed (Sousuke) or deluded (Tessa and Kaname). I think that he loves himself so much--and has had any other woman he's wanted in the past--that Kaname wouldn't be seduced by him is inconceivable. Also, he's obviously in it for the chase: he's in love with Kaname mostly because she rejects him (we want what we can't have). I think if Kaname had given herself to Leonard, he'd become bored with her after a while and find another object to pursue. That is how Leonard loves Kaname: as an object to be held. He's going to get a rude awakening when he wakes up.

2007-04-30, 10:06	Link #1751
Otakon True Hero Saves The Girl Join Date: Feb 2007	thats not love though. just cause he thinks its love it still isn't. wants what he cant have, that is lust all the way. definition of lust. Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification. im not too religious but a good explanation for love is, John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Love is sacrifice. and Leonard has not sacrificed anything for her. sousuke gave his kidney and half of his liver to try to save her.

2007-04-30, 10:28	Link #1752
Hussar67 Old school NES Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Virginia, USA	Well, now we're in the danger of just splitting semantics. It's coming down to "love" and being "in love". Leonard is definitely "in love" with Kaname. The question is whether "LOVE" is an absolute concept that cannot be altered from circumstance to circumstance. That is, whether or not the perception of love equals love. This is not just pointless philosophizing because it's an emotion: that we feel we feel it, means we feel it (so to speak). What Leonard feels for Kaname is not love to us (or to her), but it is definitely love to Leonard. I'm just saying it's not a love that goes both ways, but it is "love" for Leonard. That it's love in his mind alone still makes it "love" for him. And play with the scenario a little bit: Sousuke wants to protect Kaname above all. What does Leonard want? He wants to protect her, too; except his way is twisted (to us it is, but NOT TO HIM). He's basically vowed to protect her and free her from what he's certain is a horrible life. Same thing Sousuke's doing in trying to free her from Leonard. So Leonard's love is still love, but it's love to him alone. To everyone else it's stalking.

2007-04-30, 10:41	Link #1753
TigerII Pilot in Training Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth	I wouldn't worry about him loving her. For it to be a successful relationship, one would have to be loved back. Kaname does not love him, she loves Souske. So even if he loves her, it is one sided.

2007-04-30, 13:05	Link #1754
hobbes_fan You could say..... Join Date: Apr 2007	See I'm startng to thnk the Kaname/Sousuke relationship is somewhat like what what some hostages feel towards their captors and vice versa, something like a Stockholm Syndrome for those unfamiliar see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome. Sousuke for all intents and purposes is Kaname's bodyguard, he is responsible for her well being. I'm starting to think that because of the close proximity to each other they maybe confusing duty/obligation with love. Over analysis more than lkely but if it doesn't work out that they're paired up in the end I wouldn't be surprised

2007-04-30, 14:57	Link #1755
TigerII Pilot in Training Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth	Well, I have thought of that too. I think Kaname has legitimate feelings for Souske, but I have often wondered if Souske has confused his strong sense of duty as love. But they probably won't get together anyways. One will probably die and the other will mourn, and alot of FMP fans will be upset. Tragic, no?

2007-04-30, 20:44	Link #1756
Otakon True Hero Saves The Girl Join Date: Feb 2007	sousuke definintly loves her. there are plenty of references that says he loves her. like when he said he doesn't care anymore about life because he thought kaname was gone, what point was there to live with out kaname there. he also said it to tessa. Tessa asks him "do you love ms. chidori." sousuke"i believe that is affirmative" neither are confused. they spoke there mind clearly but it was the fact that it was his duty to protect her that kept them from expressing there feelings. because neither one knew what either was feeling. also with Leonard still even if he thinks its love to him yes it is love to him but its still not love. lust or infatuation thats what he is. remember what i said love is a sacrifice, that statement is a constant with definitions of love.

2007-04-30, 23:11	Link #1757
hobbes_fan You could say..... Join Date: Apr 2007	But does he really? He's said it fine, but with all the examples you pointed out, is he unhappy because he failed. (Kaname's "death", most bodyguards "love" or at the very least care about their ward) Remember Tessa also carries the burden of being sousuke's boss. He's a professional and on more than one occasion he has uttered that personal feelings shouldn't enter the job. Because it seems to me he's fallen more in love with the idea of being a normal 17/yo. I'm just not sold that by the end of this that all will be paired up nice and neatly

2007-05-01, 00:46	Link #1758
Otakon True Hero Saves The Girl Join Date: Feb 2007	yes he does. he has started to calm down and become more aware of his feeling. for example when he asked to hold kaname's hand and he was blushing. good example he loves her in the normal way. not bodyguard and protected status. also Tessa saying that was her sneaky little way of keeping sousuke's affections for kaname in check so she could give him attention. Tessa can see his love for kaname. but Tessa gave up on sousuke because she knew she couldn't have him. now she probably will never say that again. also sousuke said 'even when he is dun protecting her could he stay with her.' to kaname in the first season when the TDD was under attack. oh also listen to 'far away' by nickleback the song fits where the story is perfectly. lol

2007-05-01, 02:41	Link #1759
Miles Teg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Le Mans, France	And (one of) the point of ODBD/TSR was to show that Sousuke was with Chidori because he loves her and not because of duty (like before).

2007-05-01, 04:26	Link #1760
FrostWolf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia	Wait a minute Love is a two way street a person must be able to give love as well as recieve it So Chidori and Leonard cant work