The Movie of the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya (Impressions/Reviews)

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Airman8

Back to my original point, the Haruhi fanbase seems willing to work with these delays and eccentricities (E8) and have stayed very loyal. Noizi Ito's panel was well received at Sakura con (she's absolutely adorable by the way) and there was a lot of support for Haruhi there.

Unfortunately, for those that aren't big of fans, I just see a lot of stringing along with the assurance that Disappearance will all be worth it and it just detaches me from the series. It's just no surprise more casual folks don't think it's worth all of it; I'm just rolling my eyes a lot of whatever gimmick they've come up with.

But then again, there's nothing wrong with a movie just for fans. In fact, that will guarantee the movie will not be bad. Losing touch with the fans will kill a franchise.

Anyway, one of my favourite aspects of this series is that it makes the fans ask a lot of questions. It's a smart show, and Tanigawa leaves a lot to interpretation and deduction.

Agreed, but sometimes I feel there needs to be more answers too. In the end, the Haruhi anime feels more like eating appetizers continuously. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Ardee, I really need to read more Asimov. Another comparison that stood out for me was with Star Trek TNG. Nagato's evolution as a character and desire to be human reminds me a lot of Data's progression as a character, especially in how his friends come to appreciate him as a person.

Ah yes, I remember bringing that up in the Yuki thread. I often make a few passing comparisons, since both series deal with fear of the unknown.

Overall, I'm not too desperate to see the movie, nor do I feel like resorting to the camrip just to race to rate the movie and toss out text walls nobody cares about just as an ego trip. I plan to enjoy it in all of its glory, and then complain write about it. But hey, all in good time.

[GMT]

The rabid Haruhi fanatic in me compelled me to blow a gigabyte's worth of bandwidth on downloading the subbed camrip. Which, of course, means I'm going to have to review the movie. A task I've been putting off all week, because my asbestos suit was at the cleaners. Now that it's back, I present to you my review of The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

This review starts out with one basic question: Is the Haruhi movie the greatest thing since sliced bread? The answer, unfortunately, is no.

Spoiler for Wall of text:

Don't get me wrong. It's a good movie. It's absolutely faithful to the source material, and integrates tightly with the animated franchise material produced to date. The art direction is absolutely delicious and the animation is (mostly) something beautiful to behold. The use of music in this film is among the better examples I've seen. If you're a fan, this movie will be like injecting liquid sex right into your pleasure centers.

And that, is where it shoots itself in the foot. If you're not a fan, the movie will feel like just another SHnY anime episode (and not even one of the better ones) for the first half hour, and then drag for at least the next half hour. You'll be glad when Haruhi v. 2.0 turns up, since she, at least, can advance a storyline through the simple expedient of having balls so big, alien astronomers in distant starsystems are mistaking them for planets. It then invokes the usual Nagato Deus Ex Machina, but fortunately watching it play out will be sufficiently action-packed and emotionally stirring enough to make you glad you sat through the first third of the movie.

If you have no familiarity with the franchise, at all, you'll start out confused, and it'll only get worse from there. Yes, Kyoani makes an effort to sketch in the backstory; but the intended recipients are the fans . . . to reassure them that this won't be another Endless Eight-style disaster in avant garde art. You'll spend the first half of the film wishing it'd go back to 'normal,' since plot device background art Nagato is way less annoying than the Nagato who's terrified of her own shadow; and watching a thoroughly emasculated man flail about without his dominatrix is almost an embarrassment to the male gender. To you, it'll be completely forgotten when you pop in 2001: A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, Star Wars, Aliens, WALL-E or any other truly great science fiction film.

A great movie is one that stands on its own merits. One that someone unfamiliar with its genre or source material can appreciate. One that can be enjoyed and can move an audience regardless of when that audience sees the film. Be it in the theatre, or on video ten, twenty, or even forty years later. This film does not do that. It's a brilliant, touching, and beautiful . . . love letter to the fans. To the rest, it'll be just another film that starts out slow and ends up merely decent.

Because I must rate this movie in comparison with other movies, the score for this film is 6.5 big brass Haruhi balls out of 10.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Key word. Just because they didn't evolve or w/e doesn't mean that they're not steadily gathering information Learning is a progressive process. You don't suddenly jump from 0% understanding to 100%. Yuki's actions confirm that she, at least, has learned how to access and proxy Haruhi's abilities. However, as I said, the DITE isn't a hivemind. Do you know what that means? I guess not, given your answer to my other paragraph. From wiki:

A group mind or group ego in science fiction is a single consciousness occupying many bodies. Its use in literature goes back at least as far as Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men, a 1930 science fiction novel. A group mind might be formed by telepathy, by adding brain-to-brain communication to ordinary individuals, or by some unspecified means. This term may be used interchangeably with "hive mind". A hive mind is a group mind with almost complete loss (or lack) of individual identity; most fictional group minds are hives.

Yuki is not representative of the whole DITE. She is an interface, with her own individual (though temporary) identity, created by and answering to the current ruling faction of the DITE (which happens to be passive). What Yuki observes isn't automatically uploaded to the DITE. She stores them, sorts them, and only uploads important/significant data. The point is, either she 1) held back some information from the DITE due to influence from her accumulated errors, or 2) the DITE didn't consider the ability to proxy her powers to be useful (they need to be able to at least develop it themselves).

All of this serves to make me wonder why they don't just show the damn thing or have it feature more heavily in a story arc. At least that way we can finally get a better handle on what it's all about instead of listening to Yuki mumble more expositional updates about what's going on with it.

That is for them to decide. They aren't arguing over it for no reason at all. Kyon even jokes that perhaps Ryoko is up there somewhere persuading the DITE to take a move [and kill him].

Yuki deleted Ryoko because she was not following orders. Remember, she was supposed to be Yuki's backup. They are under strict orders to observe, and only observe (Ryoko disobeyed orders, hence she was punished and dismissed). This is why another interface was ordered to be Yuki's superior later on, as part of her punishment for going rogue in Disappearance.

And to me it looks like Ryoko could have gotten them somewhere or gotten the ball rolling in a new direction towards new discoveries, but I guess the DITE is just the equivalent of a very lazy scientist who would like to make new discoveries but doesn't really care as long as he keeps getting his grants...in this case periodic updates by Nagato.

Hypotheses. The main point is a fact though, as it is explicitly stated by Yuki herself in the movie/novel. Even Yuki herself wasn't able to stop it, and she knew all along that it will happen ever since three years ago.

Yes I'm well aware of Yuki Nagato's position as an exposition device. Still beside my point for about the 5th time in a row though. It doesn't matter if it was in her control, she supplanted Haruhi's powers effortlessly after all of that build up in the first three novels and establishing Haruhi's near godlike abilities as the catalyst for why the current SOS-Dan scenario even exists. It makes the series writing look fast and loose is what I'm getting at and also like Tanigawa can and will find ways to drag this franchise into sidestory detour after side story detour instead of moving things ahead. I'm also starting to look at Disappearance more and more as canonized Yuki Nagato fanfiction as the days go by.

I don't really approve of the eight episodes, but here are the quotes. Not the exact line, but in the movie, Kyon said:

Given enough time, even an emotionless interface like you would start to develop emotions.

And boy, for human [interface] standards, did she have a lot of TIME. And here, a line from the novels (I didn't notice this in the movie):

I suddenly thought of the behavior and mannerisms of Nagato after summer, which were slightly different from before

I think you ought to double check whether that line from the novels was in the movie or not because if not then I have another big problem....this time with the part of the movie that I thought was pretty much solid. With all of that mopey throw away dialogue by Kyon that they managed to work into the early parts of this 164 minute movie....if they truly failed to include something as insightful, relevant and reflective as that line you just quoted (something that would have changed the tone of Yuki Nagato's bender and made it look pitiable and understandable) then this adaptation just got even further from the perfect and flawless affair that others are claiming. At least by my standards.

Uh, did you miss the part where the novels (and the entire franchise for that matter) have been on hiatus for the past 3 years? And you complain about 32 episodes? LoGH has 110 episodes. What do you have against 32?

Ever wonder why the novels are on hiatus? I personally think it's because Tanigawa has no idea where he wants to go with the story and has run out of sidestory detours to take the characters through like he has been since the ending to Melancholy, which to me was by far the best book and not Disappearance as seems to be the case for everyone else. Or maybe he's under pressure from Kadokawa Shoten to actually develop from the point where he's left off for a change and to start moving things forward.

And that whole moving things forward plea that I'm making is why I brought up the LOGH 110 episodes vs. Haruhi 32 comparison contrast. You see for being a monstrous 110 episodes (+52 OVA episodes) where you'd think things might drag for long stretches, LOGH always seems to be moving the narrative of the galaxy forward each and every episode ("the history of the galaxy turns another page"). At the end of any of those 110 episodes the situation is never the same as it was at the beginning of it. Somebody has been developed, somebody has passed on, a new alliance has been forged...something big has happened that will affect the next episode and things down the line.

Haruhi in it's 32 episodes feels like it hasn't moved forward or developed anybody besides Yuki Nagato in ages, and even she's still shrouded with a large veil of mystery and secrecy as her dominant character trait. The SOS-Dan club activities are the status quo and while things do happen to disrupt them there never seem to be any lasting ramifications because the story has been stuck in the same cyclical time travel arc for the equivalent of the approximately 6 novels that have been translated to anime. The situation always seem to be getting brought back to the same initial point where the whole affair started (Endless Eight, Disappearance, even Melancholy are examples) and it's frustrating to watch.

Then there's the character development. Kyon? Still a miserable, mopey and sarcastic teenager. Haruhi? Still a bossy, moody loudmouth who has to be appeased. Mikuru? Still a moeblob whose only interesting story arc in being a time traveller is apparently just too big a secret to ever have any light shed upon it. Nagato? Has shown signs of evolving as a character, but then going from being a near passive mute to being an expositional device with a vague hint of emotion isn't exactly a huge leap. Koizumi? since the second he was introduced. Though what about his whole bit with being caught in a lifestyle as an esper when he'd rather just live a normal life? That could have been an interesting and meaningful pursuit, but it hasn't moved since the first novel. Even Asakura Ryoko who might have been used differently or developed on during her second stint as a player was used the exact same way as she was the first time around, but this time because of what looked like some bizarre over-protective yuri fetish for Nagato instead of for the sake of a story relevant cause. That's the difference in boldness between Melancholy which looked like it had a grand story to start and Disappearance which looks like Otaku appeasement though.

This is what people who don't pay attention think. Look at the book Kyon took the bookmark from in the movie. He immediately noticed it since it's the same one that Yuki gave to Kyon in Ep02 (2009), which contained the bookmark that told him to meet up at the park. The escape program was supposed to be as discrete as possible in order for Yuki to be able to set it up in the first place. Remember, anything remotely indiscreet that she left behind would end up being reverted. This also applies to the world as a whole. Taniguchi's cold, Koizumi and Haruhi in Kyouyen. Everything was set up by Yuki to make triggering the program possible yet still incredibly hard.

Koizumi did most of the problem solving it looked like or at least did the most to get the ball rolling. Having everybody in the same room also seemed to happen by sheer dumb luck though. Though imagine if it hadn't just taken Kyon about a minute to clue in to the fact that Kunikida and Taniguchi were talking about that Haruhi and he just failed to pay any attention at all? He may never have stumbled into the puzzles solution which he didn't even recognize he had until the program Yuki.N> told him he did. How's that for an inspiring lead.....

Not true. Change in Haruhi is subtle, yet it happens all the time (progressively).

I disagree. See above.

Most likely. Don't go batshit insane on us now.

Might be a little late in that regard.

[FDW]

My overall impression of the movie is that it was pretty good, but not perfect, yet enough to keep me interested in the series. What interests me in particular is how KyoAni will adapt the rest of the books, (particularly the 7th book, which I consider the best in the series for a variety of reasons.) and how they tie into what has already been adapted. So my real judgement of the movie might not formulate for another year.( I wonder what it will be, the excellent swan song of mishandled franchise, or the second, greater dawn of the series.)

[Ice Block]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

All of this serves to make me wonder why they don't just show the damn thing or have it feature more heavily in a story arc.

How are you going to explicitly state that through Kyon's view without resorting to Yuki exposition? Do you want more exposition? Are you a masochist? Or do you just need to burn some calories to keep yourself fit by complaining and complaining?

Seriously though, everything I had said is either heavily implied or outright stated in your face. You have to try hard in not paying attention to not get anything. And if for some reason you're not getting the implications, then you should use your head and think more (this is for those instances where things are purposely left ambiguous, so that you may infer a character's motives from their actions, tone, or through Kyon's insights -- and this is what the narrative heavily relies on, Kyon's insights).

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

And to me it looks like Ryoko could have gotten them somewhere or gotten the ball rolling in a new direction towards new discoveries, but I guess the DITE is just the equivalent of a very lazy scientist who would like to make new discoveries but doesn't really care as long as he keeps getting his grants...in this case periodic updates by Nagato.

Perhaps, but then is it really necessary? Is it safe, or are results guaranteed? High-risk, low-yield maneuvers are not positively looked upon in science, and that is exactly what Ryoko's faction is trying to push. And you do know that "discoveries" aren't instant too, don't you? Advances in science take significant amounts of both time and money invested in R&D.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

It doesn't matter if it was in her control, she supplanted Haruhi's powers effortlessly after all of that build up in the first three novels and establishing Haruhi's near godlike abilities as the catalyst for why the current SOS-Dan scenario even exists. It makes the series writing look fast and loose is what I'm getting at and also like Tanigawa can and will find ways to drag this franchise into sidestory detour after side story detour instead of moving things ahead. I'm also starting to look at Disappearance more and more as canonized Yuki Nagato fanfiction as the days go by.

I see these excuses thrown around all the time. And do you know where? 4chan's [a/. Everything [a/non doesn't understand is immediately dismissed as "bad writing", even if it easily makes sense if you even just stop for a moment and think about it. And have you read up until Volume 9? Most of the side stories (even main arcs) serve as either buildup or epilogues to main arcs. They even foreshadow plot details that will be looked upon in the future. For example:

• Boredom is the epilogue to Melancholy.
• Ep00 and Live a Live are epilogues of Sighs.
• BLR is revisited in Disappearance.
• Endless Eight, Day of Sagittarius and Someday in the Rain, together, hint at Disappearance (observe Yuki's actions and Kyon's insights carefully throughout these episodes).

Spoiler for future novels:

• The concept of "stealing" Haruhi's powers (Disappearance) is revisited in Dissociation/Surprise.
• Charmed at First Sight LOVER references Yuki's changes through Disappearance (it's an epilogue of sorts).
• SMS foreshadows Dissociation.
• Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru is a prologue to Intrigues.
• Intrigues prologue wraps up Disappearance.
• EiC introduces Kimidori as a humanoid interface, setting up for Dissociation/Surprise.
• Wandering Shadow leaves hints for a future plot point involving Shamisen.
• Intrigues sets up the possibility for opposing factions.

Haruhi's powers are quite easy to model. Her powers are a separate entity from herself, and can be stolen. In a character battle, in order to defeat Haruhi, you'd have to analyze her powers first without invoking her wrath or boredom, then once you figure out how to utilize it, use it against her. That is what Yuki did. This act is also touched upon in the later novels (refer to above spoiler). Technically, only data interfaces can do this, since only they have the necessary observation and reality-altering powers.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think you ought to double check whether that line from the novels was in the movie or not because if not then I have another big problem....this time with the part of the movie that I thought was pretty much solid. With all of that mopey throw away dialogue by Kyon that they managed to work into the early parts of this 164 minute movie....if they truly failed to include something as insightful, relevant and reflective as that line you just quoted (something that would have changed the tone of Yuki Nagato's bender and made it look pitiable and understandable) then this adaptation just got even further from the perfect and flawless affair that others are claiming. At least by my standards.

Eh? Would you rather have everything be spoonfed to you? This has already been touched upon in the series. If you rewatch the whole series in the 2009 order, you would notice how Kyon notes relatively large changes in Yuki's behavior after Endless Eight. See: Live a Live, Day of Sagittarius, Someday in the Rain. Of course, most instances here aren't spelled out too (e.g. double cardigan in Someday in the Rain).

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Ever wonder why the novels are on hiatus? I personally think it's because Tanigawa has no idea where he wants to go with the story and has run out of sidestory detours to take the characters through like he has been since the ending to Melancholy, which to me was by far the best book and not Disappearance as seems to be the case for everyone else. Or maybe he's under pressure from Kadokawa Shoten to actually develop from the point where he's left off for a change and to start moving things forward.

Two main reasons:

• Kadokawa marketing.
• Writer's block (highly unlikely, since the two novels were supposed to be a back-to-back releases).

Disappearance is the fan favorite mainly because of two things:

• It's where the novels start going into serious mode.
• Yuki character development (and Kyon, finally accepting that he likes Haruhi's chaotic world, and prefers it over a normal world where oddities don't exist), and Alt!Yuki (not to mention Alt!Everything).

Personally, in terms of plot, I think Intrigues is the best book in the franchise.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Haruhi in it's 32 episodes feels like it hasn't moved forward or developed anybody besides Yuki Nagato in ages, and even she's still shrouded with a large veil of mystery and secrecy as her dominant character trait. The SOS-Dan club activities are the status quo and while things do happen to disrupt them there never seem to be any lasting ramifications because the story has been stuck in the same cyclical time travel arc for the equivalent of the approximately 6 novels that have been translated to anime. The situation always seem to be getting brought back to the same initial point where the whole affair started (Endless Eight, Disappearance, even Melancholy are examples) and it's frustrating to watch.

Uh, no. I'll explain below. And of course, isn't that the whole point of the SOS brigade's factions? It is to keep the status quo, to let "God" be and appease her, to make sure she doesn't break CTCs, and to observe how to break conservation laws and translate this information to evolve a race of sentient data entities, all while keeping her oblivious of their presence her abilities in order to prevent possible universal catastrophe. Remember Kyon's threat to the DITE?

If they have any complaints, I will take Haruhi and recreate the world completely. We'll make a world where you're here, but the DITE doesn't exist. It would be a piece of cake for Haruhi. We will get you back, even if we have to recreate the entire universe from scratch.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

[development stuff]

Plot? The brigade has began growing steadily as a team. That was the whole point of the introductory volumes anyway. Disappearance is the first of the non-introductory ones, where we learn that Haruhi's powers can be stolen.

Kyon? Ithekro laid it out quite clearly here.

Haruhi? She has changed from being gloomy and short-tempered, to being hyperactively proactive, to being a pushy brigade leader with tsundere moments.

Yuki? Note changes from Endless Eight, Day of Sagittarius, Live a Live, and on to Disappearance epilogue (saying "thank you").

Koizumi? He has many personalities. We don't actually see him develop, since he is always wearing his happy face mask. Also recall that he has access to Haruhi's unconscious thoughts nearly all the time (I imagine this makes it harder to keep up a straight face). In Sighs, however, he tries to share his burdens with Kyon, and even tries to warn him of the other factions' motives. This is touched upon again in the latter books.

I agree, that might not be much. But then, we're only about half-way through the available content, and even less compared to the full series.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Koizumi did most of the problem solving it looked like or at least did the most to get the ball rolling. Having everybody in the same room also seemed to happen by sheer dumb luck though. Though imagine if it hadn't just taken Kyon about a minute to clue in to the fact that Kunikida and Taniguchi were talking about that Haruhi and he just failed to pay any attention at all? He may never have stumbled into the puzzles solution which he didn't even recognize he had until the program Yuki.N> told him he did. How's that for an inspiring lead...

Not really. He was even in slight opposition to Haruhi's growing interest in Kyon's story. Basically, the catalyst is still Haruhi. Since their personalities are still the same, it won't be too hard to believe that Alt!Haruhi would do the same thing Haruhi did (and indeed she did, with Alt!Mikuru's kidnapping mirroring the original). And, well, that's the whole point of making it discreet anyway. The mystery behind the clue (I think it served more as a motivator than a clue) perhaps assured Yuki that Kyon will never discover it if he couldn't find Haruhi, hence she didn't delete it when she altered the world. Kyon had almost given up by then, and had Taniguchi stayed sick, the escape program would have never been activated.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Might be a little late in that regard.

Ah, no worries. I'm sure my future self will come to save me.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

How are you going to explicitly state that through Kyon's view without resorting to Yuki exposition? Do you want more exposition? Are you a masochist? Or do you just need to burn some calories to keep yourself fit by complaining and complaining?

Seriously though, everything I had said is either heavily implied or outright stated in your face. You have to try hard in not paying attention to not get anything. And if for some reason you're not getting the implications, then you should use your head and think more (this is for those instances where things are purposely left ambiguous, so that you may infer a character's motives from their actions, tone, or through Kyon's insights -- and this is what the narrative heavily relies on, Kyon's insights).

I think Nagato provides plenty of exposition. Otherwise I meant featuring the actual DITE in an arc at some point to get to the bottom of it's true nature.

Perhaps, but then is it really necessary? Is it safe, or are results guaranteed? High-risk, low-yield maneuvers are not positively looked upon in science, and that is exactly what Ryoko's faction is trying to push. And you do know that "discoveries" aren't instant too, don't you? Advances in science take significant amounts of both time and money invested in R&D.

I think what Ryoko understood is that sometimes in order to make a breakthrough you have to take a risk. Then again Kyoto Animation and Tanigawa seem to disagree with this notion in how they construct their scripts. Also play it safe and traditional seems to border on social mores in Japan so perhaps this is just a radical outsiders thoughts. I'm sure the fans of the franchise would have it no other way than to maintain the status quo forever.

I see these excuses thrown around all the time. And do you know where? 4chan's [a/. Everything [a/non doesn't understand is immediately dismissed as "bad writing", even if it easily makes sense if you even just stop for a moment and think about it. And have you read up until Volume 9? Most of the side stories (even main arcs) serve as either buildup or epilogues to main arcs. They even foreshadow plot details that will be looked upon in the future. For example:

• Boredom is the epilogue to Melancholy.
• Ep00 and Live a Live are epilogues of Sighs.
• BLR is revisited in Disappearance.
• Endless Eight, Day of Sagittarius and Someday in the Rain, together, hint at Disappearance (observe Yuki's actions and Kyon's insights carefully throughout these episodes).

Spoiler for future novels:

• The concept of "stealing" Haruhi's powers (Disappearance) is revisited in Dissociation/Surprise.
• Charmed at First Sight LOVER references Yuki's changes through Disappearance (it's an epilogue of sorts).
• SMS foreshadows Dissociation.
• Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru is a prologue to Intrigues.
• Intrigues prologue wraps up Disappearance.
• EiC introduces Kimidori as a humanoid interface, setting up for Dissociation/Surprise.
• Wandering Shadow leaves hints for a future plot point involving Shamisen.
• Intrigues sets up the possibility for opposing factions.

I haven't read any of those novels because when I was still reading them I lost interest around the point where I finished reading Disappearance. If that was the high point of the novels (as I believed then because that was what I was told) and I found it that mediocore then.....well.....anyway I guess I've been demoted to an anonymous since I won't find the movie's writing completely flawless, tight and endlessly praisable.

Haruhi's powers are quite easy to model. Her powers are a separate entity from herself, and can be stolen. In a character battle, in order to defeat Haruhi, you'd have to analyze her powers first without invoking her wrath or boredom, then once you figure out how to utilize it, use it against her. That is what Yuki did. This act is also touched upon in the later novels (refer to above spoiler). Technically, only data interfaces can do this, since only they have the necessary observation and reality-altering powers.

That wasn't how it was portrayed in the first three novels as I said and I'm still not getting why if this is the case that the Data Entity couldn't have come to the same conclusion. So anyway Haruhi is a god to the fans and to Koizumi, yet her powers are just borrowed somehow? Wow this franchise......I don't understand why it is by the way that if I understand something about the franchise I have to accept that it's good for it, or rather my interest in it? You seem to not want to separate enjoyment from understanding like I do, and I've basically been talking about the former the whole time while only bringing the latter in when it's necessary.

Eh? Would you rather have everything be spoonfed to you? This has already been touched upon in the series. If you rewatch the whole series in the 2009 order, you would notice how Kyon notes relatively large changes in Yuki's behavior after Endless Eight. See: Live a Live, Day of Sagittarius, Someday in the Rain. Of course, most instances here aren't spelled out too (e.g. double cardigan in Someday in the Rain).

Too bad they still aren't very visible to the viewer eh? Ever hear of the concept of "show, don't tell"? Then again they have done a little showing, but Kyoani/Tanigawa's idea of showing change seems to be showing somebody with a different article of clothing on or a different hairstyle than usual. This is huge stuff eh?

Two main reasons:

• Kadokawa marketing.
• Writer's block (highly unlikely, since the two novels were supposed to be a back-to-back releases).

Disappearance is the fan favorite mainly because of two things:

• It's where the novels start going into serious mode.
• Yuki character development (and Kyon, finally accepting that he likes Haruhi's chaotic world, and prefers it over a normal world where oddities don't exist), and Alt!Yuki (not to mention Alt!Everything).

Personally, in terms of plot, I think Intrigues is the best book in the franchise.

Yeah as I said I think it's because he doesn't know where he wants to go with the franchise. Kadokawa Marketing is also a possibility. And if it's true about what you say regarding a tone shift and that Disappearance is the building block for that then maybe I might check out the later novels. If executed well that might just be the kick in the pants I'm looking for to rebuild some interest in this franchise.

Uh, no. I'll explain below. And of course, isn't that the whole point of the SOS brigade's factions? It is to keep the status quo, to let "God" be and appease her, to make sure she doesn't break CTCs, and to observe how to break conservation laws and translate this information to evolve a race of sentient data entities, all while keeping her oblivious of their presence her abilities in order to prevent possible universal catastrophe. Remember Kyon's threat to the DITE?

If they have any complaints, I will take Haruhi and recreate the world completely. We'll make a world where you're here, but the DITE doesn't exist. It would be a piece of cake for Haruhi. We will get you back, even if we have to recreate the entire universe from scratch.

You're just wasting time explaining what I already know, but don't see any reason why I should accept. Considering the only characters theories who I agree with has been killed off twice now. Though I suppose now if "God" Haruhi misbehaves it's just as easy as Nagato's giving her a spanking and taking her powers away for a while until she learns to play nice since they are easily transferable by your own explanation and Nagato's demonstration. Right now the ONLY reason that Haruhi seems to still exist with god powers is because Kyon suddenly decided he likes being her foil in the SOS-dan club, a rather selfish choice to make for his apparent sub-fetish since it continues to put the rest of the universe in danger of being overwritten by Haruhi.

Plot? The brigade has began growing steadily as a team. That was the whole point of the introductory volumes anyway. Disappearance is the first of the non-introductory ones, where we learn that Haruhi's powers can be stolen.

So I hear.

Kyon? Ithekro laid it out quite clearly here.

Read it, agree on some points, but not others. It's kind of telling though that most of the development he mentioned happened in the Melancholy story arc right at the beginning of the overall story and that the two things he mentioned that are the hardest pills for me to swallow regarding Kyon's development happened in Disappearance.

I agree, that might not be much. But then, we're only about half-way through the available content, and even less compared to the full series.

I kind of hope your not leading me on about the future stories building character and concept. I've been lead to hope that this franchise has a future far to many times only to have that belief dashed by a dose of reality the next time I check out a story arc.

Not really. He was even in slight opposition to Haruhi's growing interest in Kyon's story. Basically, the catalyst is still Haruhi. Since their personalities are still the same, it won't be too hard to believe that Alt!Haruhi would do the same thing Haruhi did (and indeed she did, with Alt!Mikuru's kidnapping mirroring the original). And, well, that's the whole point of making it discreet anyway. The mystery behind the clue (I think it served more as a motivator than a clue) perhaps assured Yuki that Kyon will never discover it if he couldn't find Haruhi, hence she didn't delete it when she altered the world. Kyon had almost given up by then, and had Taniguchi stayed sick, the escape program would have never been activated.

Interesting theory, however it gets me thinking about something else. If Haruhi is basically the exact same and yet has apparently been depowered in the alternate timeline....why not just stick with that where Kyon can hang out with the gang still and yet not have the whole fabric of the universe endangered by the meddling of outside forces like the DITE, or Haruhi's own whims?

Anyway I think your next reply ought to be in PM and likewise for me. This is starting to sound like two dudes bouncing ideas and point/counterpoints off of each other now and not a forum discussion.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I haven't read any of those novels because when I was still reading them I lost interest around the point where I finished reading Disappearance. If that was the high point of the novels (as I believed then because that was what I was told) and I found it that mediocore then.....well.....anyway I guess I've been demoted to an anonymous since I won't find the movie's writing completely flawless, tight and endlessly praisable.

For someone claiming indifference for this series... you sure do spend quite a bit of time with all these walls of text...

What's not to praise about the movie? Solid production values? Well done sequences? Great performances by the seiyuu? Seriously, KyoAni went all out and delivered.

If you didn't like the book WTH are you doing watching the movie... more so, why did you feel the need to go through watching a low quality cam-rip which was over 2hrs and 30mins?

Haters will hate.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Finally watched this thing. For being the second to last showing at this cinema, there were still quite a lot of people in the theater. But for good reason. The movie basically did everything that needed to be done.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by ac195

For someone claiming indifference for this series... you sure do spend quite a bit of time with all these walls of text...

What's not to praise about the movie? Solid production values? Well done sequences? Great performances by the seiyuu? Seriously, KyoAni went all out and delivered.

If you didn't like the book WTH are you doing watching the movie... more so, why did you feel the need to go through watching a low quality cam-rip which was over 2hrs and 30mins?

Haters will hate.

Probably because the movie is the most over-hyped anime film to come out of the most over-hyped anime franchise in the history of over-hyped anime franchises. It needs some criticism to balance the rapturous otakugasms. It's an okay movie. It could even be called a good movie, but it certainly isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. His criticisms about the pacing of the film are spot-on. It drags horribly during the first hour (almost to the point where there were better-paced Endless Eight episodes,) and slows down whenever Kyon mental voice-overs take place. When watching the film and comparing it to what I remembered of the old pirate fan-translations of the novels, I noticed that what was likely to be cut was some of these Kyon internal dialogues. Arguably, they didn't cut enough of them. A good story shows us what's going on. It doesn't just tell us while the protagonist is wandering around wasting screen time until he finally finds Sociopath Sue, and she decides to get the old band back together.

We probably could've done with less having it beaten into us that Nagato v. 2.0 is a useless moeblob (managing to be even more useless than Mikuru, Queen of Moeblobs,) that's terrified of everything and who has this bizarre Stockholm Syndrome-style affection for Kyon. I was quite happy when Asakura v. 2.0 opened her mouth around Kyon, because the way she talked to him seemed to indicate that she thought he's an idiot, and I happened to agree with her.

Yes, the production values are high. The acting was top-notch. There were many very well-done scenes. If they'd paced the first half better, it'd be a very good film. Maybe even an excellent one. Still wouldn't be a great film, let alone the greatest thing since sliced bread. As it is, it's just a good film with massive appeal to the franchise's rabid fanbase and limited accessibility to everyone else. Don't get me wrong. I'll snap up this film as soon as it's released on DVD in the States. I'd even strongly recommend it to people who like the anime, and people whom I think might enjoy the anime, were they exposed to it. But would I recommend it to someone who's never seen an anime movie before? No, they'd just come away more confused than they were when they started. Would I recommend it to somebody who's seen the anime and didn't like it? No. If I, as an admitted Haruhi fan, couldn't get through the slowest parts of the film without snarking . . . they're going to be rather less appreciative of this film.

[Ice Block]

You do know that the act of criticizing something just because it is extensively discussed, praised, or "over-hyped", is the very definition of the Haters Gonna Hate meme, right?

Originally Posted by GMT

It drags horribly during the first hour... A good story shows us what's going on.

Hoho... Just because the pacing doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean that it "dragged horribly". It's called "set-up", and I can attest that a lot of fans who watched to camrip even "forgot" they were watching a camrip 20 minutes in. For some, it's that immersive. Would you rather rush through the introduction, and cut out most, if not all, of Kyon's thoughts and monologues? Also keep in mind that this is told strictly from a first-person perspective. Perhaps this style is where your problem lies. Just as an exercise, how would you imagine telling the same story from a first-person perspective, while showing more than what our protagonist sees?

Originally Posted by GMT

We probably could've done with less having it beaten into us that Nagato v. 2.0 is a useless moeblob

Could have. But then, there was the whole contrast between Normal Yuki and Alien Yuki. Remember, all the other characters still had the same old personality. And this wasn't the point at all. It was there to sway Kyon into thinking, "perhaps this isn't such a bad situation after all". Yuki just wanted a chance at a normal life, and perhaps a chance at Kyon. But no, Kyon had to crush her, twice. Just look at her reaction when he returned the registration form to her.

Originally Posted by GMT

But would I recommend it to someone who's never seen an anime movie before? No, they'd just come away more confused than they were when they started. Would I recommend it to somebody who's seen the anime and didn't like it? No. If I, as an admitted Haruhi fan, couldn't get through the slowest parts of the film without snarking . . . they're going to be rather less appreciative of this film.

It goes without saying. The series exists for a reason -- background and continuity. Would you expect to fully understand KnK 5/6/7 without seeing the previous films? How about King of Eden / Paradise Lost? Return of the Jedi? Return of the King? Seriously though, given the advertising material for this movie (which gave away almost all the twists), and the time span before announcement and screening (which took less than six months), you'd know that this is specifically marketed to the fans, not the casuals.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There are some people who aren't fans (even a few haters) of the franchise but nevertheless claimed that the movie was very good. There are even people who watched the entire series just to see the movie, and liked it. And, I remember there was a magazine scan somewhere in the spoilers/anticipation threads that showed a rating of 93/100 (can't confirm if this came from a non-fan or not).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by GMT

Probably because the movie is the most over-hyped anime film to come out of the most over-hyped anime franchise in the history of over-hyped anime franchises. It needs some criticism to balance the rapturous otakugasms. It's an okay movie. It could even be called a good movie, but it certainly isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. His criticisms about the pacing of the film are spot-on. It drags horribly during the first hour (almost to the point where there were better-paced Endless Eight episodes,) and slows down whenever Kyon mental voice-overs take place. When watching the film and comparing it to what I remembered of the old pirate fan-translations of the novels, I noticed that what was likely to be cut was some of these Kyon internal dialogues. Arguably, they didn't cut enough of them. A good story shows us what's going on. It doesn't just tell us while the protagonist is wandering around wasting screen time until he finally finds Sociopath Sue, and she decides to get the old band back together.

We probably could've done with less having it beaten into us that Nagato v. 2.0 is a useless moeblob (managing to be even more useless than Mikuru, Queen of Moeblobs,) that's terrified of everything and who has this bizarre Stockholm Syndrome-style affection for Kyon. I was quite happy when Asakura v. 2.0 opened her mouth around Kyon, because the way she talked to him seemed to indicate that she thought he's an idiot, and I happened to agree with her.

Yes, the production values are high. The acting was top-notch. There were many very well-done scenes. If they'd paced the first half better, it'd be a very good film. Maybe even an excellent one. Still wouldn't be a great film, let alone the greatest thing since sliced bread. As it is, it's just a good film with massive appeal to the franchise's rabid fanbase and limited accessibility to everyone else. Don't get me wrong. I'll snap up this film as soon as it's released on DVD in the States. I'd even strongly recommend it to people who like the anime, and people whom I think might enjoy the anime, were they exposed to it. But would I recommend it to someone who's never seen an anime movie before? No, they'd just come away more confused than they were when they started. Would I recommend it to somebody who's seen the anime and didn't like it? No. If I, as an admitted Haruhi fan, couldn't get through the slowest parts of the film without snarking . . . they're going to be rather less appreciative of this film.

Basically this. I still think it's possible to enjoy something without having to borderline worship it as perfection, but tell that to the peanut gallery that seems so unaccepting of people who are willing to ask questions and discuss the problems they had with a movie.

Originally Posted by Ice Block

= right?

Hoho... Just because the pacing doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean that it "dragged horribly". It's called "set-up", and I can attest that a lot of fans who watched to camrip even "forgot" they were watching a camrip 20 minutes in. For some, it's that immersive. Would you rather rush through the introduction, and cut out most, if not all, of Kyon's thoughts and monologues? Also keep in mind that this is told strictly from a first-person perspective. Perhaps this style is where your problem lies. Just as an exercise, how would you imagine telling the same story from a first-person perspective, while showing more than what our protagonist sees?

I'm not a fanboy okay, I'm a casual viewer who was looking for something to watch one night and had been wanting to at least check out the latest high quality animation feature. Nothing was going to make me forget that I was watching the film at a dutch angle pretty much the entire time, but did I fault it for that? I think it's a little beside the point, but there are people faulting it for that actually and I would agree that that's a little excessive, but can you see how it might be a little annoying to have people trying to get me to accept that the film and story was absolutely perfect as is? That's kind of the very definition of fanboys will be fanboys. I mean considering that I'm not exactly going out and telling people, "you can't enjoy this pacing and you have to accept that my claiming it drags must make it so for everyone". I'm perfectly happy if people will just see things my way and why I've come to my conclusions about the film. It's up to them if they want to change how they feel about it and there's not much I can do (nor do I really care or want to) to make them change their mind.

However, the fact that you refer to this as "our problem" like somehow we are abnormal for not getting on our knees in revelation before Disappearance's verbatim portrayal of a novel that I personally already found fun but flawed is the part that's getting me though. How could someone not find this film perfect and unabashedly enjoyable every second of the way.....just how couldn't they? Oh the humanity....*faints*

Though to be frank, maybe you ought to just consider that I'm perfectly comfortable with the level of appreciation and criticism I have for the Haruhi franchise at the moment and not try to force things to much eh?

Originally Posted by ac195

For someone claiming indifference for this series... you sure do spend quite a bit of time with all these walls of text...

What's not to praise about the movie? Solid production values? Well done sequences? Great performances by the seiyuu? Seriously, KyoAni went all out and delivered.

If you didn't like the book WTH are you doing watching the movie... more so, why did you feel the need to go through watching a low quality cam-rip which was over 2hrs and 30mins?

Haters will hate.

This was a few years ago I was reading the novels and I had no desire to immediately continue to do so at the time I read Disappearance. I happen to be reading and greatly enjoying Buddha by Osamu Tezuka right now, but I won't be picking up volume 3 for at least another few months simply because I want to save money to pay off my new computer. Sometimes aspects of life and free time intrude on others and something has to give.

I've said what I have to say about the movie and am not going to change it just because many people love and worship Kyoani and Haruhi.

As for why I would watch the movie? Why not? I said I found the book fun but flawed and perhaps on the mediocre side and I wanted to see if the movie could correct some of the issues I had with the book. It did, but I felt it created several new ones to fill their place in the process. Better question though is why do you even care? Clearly I'm just nothing more than a hater too you and Ice Block after all.....though if sayings like "fun but flawed" or "poor pacing" are the words of haters than I guess it doesn't take much. So be it, crown me the King of Haters if it'll make you feel a little better.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

You do know that the act of criticizing something just because it is extensively discussed, praised, or "over-hyped", is the very definition of the Haters Gonna Hate meme, right?

I try to live my life blissfully unaware of internet memes. Unless they suit me, of course.

Hoho... Just because the pacing doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean that it "dragged horribly". It's called "set-up", and I can attest that a lot of fans who watched to camrip even "forgot" they were watching a camrip 20 minutes in. For some, it's that immersive.

When I did my review, I tied up and left my inner Haruhi fanboy at the door; and tried to review it as just another sci-fi film. Which meant looking at it from the point of view of someone with no familiarity with the Haruhi-verse. Perhaps even from the point of view of someone ambivalent, or possibly even antipathetic to Haruhi. If the movie can survive that kind of review, then it's a very good film in general. If not, it's just a love letter to the fans.

Would you rather rush through the introduction, and cut out most, if not all, of Kyon's thoughts and monologues? Also keep in mind that this is told strictly from a first-person perspective. Perhaps this style is where your problem lies. Just as an exercise, how would you imagine telling the same story from a first-person perspective, while showing more than what our protagonist sees?

For the purposes of film criticism, Tanigawa's style is my problem. It works for a short anime episode, because we get Kyon's internal stream of consciousness in manageable bite-sized chunks. For a movie, it turns into a long, long soliloquy verging on expository infodump. It was interesting at the end, when it came with all that imagery. But watching Kyon mope about the halls of North High talking to himself . . . a little less interesting. You could've trimmed more of that out and let the scenes speak for themselves. Watching Kyon reacting to seeing Asakura again, asking her if she tried to kill him . . . watching his reaction to being spurned by Mikuru and threatened by Tsuruya (who were established as knowing Kyon in the opening scenes) would've been more than enough to convey that Bad Things have happened without quite as much stream-of-consciousness exposition.

Could have. But then, there was the whole contrast between Normal Yuki and Alien Yuki.

One is background scenery and a walking Deus Ex Machina. The other is afraid of her own shadow. Okay, so we need to see the sort of normal world Yuki would create. Make her shy, a little awkward, and show emotions. The difference between the Yukis will be shocking enough when Kyon begins molesting the flow of time itself and the viewer is introduced to hyper-competent Deus Nagato Ex Machina. There was no need to turn moe-Yuki up to freakin' eleven.

Remember, all the other characters still had the same old personality. And this wasn't the point at all. It was there to sway Kyon into thinking, "perhaps this isn't such a bad situation after all". Yuki just wanted a chance at a normal life, and perhaps a chance at Kyon. But no, Kyon had to crush her, twice. Just look at her reaction when he returned the registration form to her.

I noted the reaction. I was moved. By then, the pace had picked up. It was a bit muted when I remembered that he introduces himself to her by nearly assaulting her, trashing her clubroom, trying to look at her Harry Potter yaoi fanfic, being all weird around her best friend, etc. And yet, she likes him anyway.

It goes without saying. The series exists for a reason -- background and continuity. Would you expect to fully understand KnK 5/6/7 without seeing the previous films? How about King of Eden / Paradise Lost? Return of the Jedi? Return of the King? Seriously though, given the advertising material for this movie (which gave away almost all the twists), and the time span before announcement and screening (which took less than six months), you'd know that this is specifically marketed to the fans, not the casuals.

And then we have people acting like this was literally the greatest thing since sliced bread. Possibly even the greatest thing since bread itself. The point of my criticism of the film is that it isn't really the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's just like many other anime films . . . a love letter to the fans. Yes, if you're a fan of the Haruhi franchise, you will probably love this film. It may even convince you to forgive Kadokawa and KyoAni for Endless Eight. It is a faithful adaptation of the light novel. What it is not, is the embodiment of perfection captured on film.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There are some people who aren't fans (even a few haters) of the franchise but nevertheless claimed that the movie was very good.

Two key phrases here. "Some people" and "very good." Not "most people" and "excellent" or "giving them religious visions of the Lady Haruhi."

There are even people who watched the entire series just to see the movie, and liked it.

Well, if you were willing to go through the whole series first . . . chances are , you're going to like the movie.

And, I remember there was a magazine scan somewhere in the spoilers/anticipation threads that showed a rating of 93/100 (can't confirm if this came from a non-fan or not).

I seem to recall there was some question about who produced that 93/100 rating. Whether it was an objective critic, or whether it was based on exit polling of people having seen the film.

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by GMT

I seem to recall there was some question about who produced that 93/100 rating. Whether it was an objective critic, or whether it was based on exit polling of people having seen the film.

The 93/100 90.4/100 was based on exit polling from people leaving the theatre during opening weekend. There were two reviews on Movie Judge (Japanese movie review site) by critics. One review scored it 80 out of 100 and the other scored it 60 out of 100.

[wingman32x]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

The 93/100 90.4/100 was based on exit polling from people leaving the theatre during opening weekend. There were two reviews on Movie Judge (Japanese movie review site) by critics. One review scored it 80 out of 100 and the other scored it 60 out of 100.

I think 80/100 is a fair score for this movie. It was good, but it did drag at times IMO. I felt that they could have shaved 30 minutes off of the movie without hurting the overall plot. Aside from that, it was a pretty good movie. The scene near the end where Kyon was asking questions to a version of himself was really well done and neat to see. Alt. Yuki was pretty cute I must admit. And the movie wrapped up nicely. Seeing Haruhi in a sleeping bag at Kyon's bedside was a pretty good "aww" moment. Really cute. So yeah, it was a good movie.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

As for why I would watch the movie? Why not? I said I found the book fun but flawed and perhaps on the mediocre side and I wanted to see if the movie could correct some of the issues I had with the book. It did, but I felt it created several new ones to fill their place in the process. Better question though is why do you even care? Clearly I'm just nothing more than a hater too you and Ice Block after all.....though if sayings like "fun but flawed" or "poor pacing" are the words of haters than I guess it doesn't take much. So be it, crown me the King of Haters if it'll make you feel a little better.

I can understand why you would watch the movie... but why a low quality cam rip? You seem so blasé about your overall experience of this series yet... time and time again you continue to poke holes (with a seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of the series) whenever the opportunity arises.

Yet, you still felt the need to sit through a low quality cam rip.

Q: Was this movie produced with genuine effort and passion?
A: Clearly, yes, everything is well polished (including the background).

Q: Is this movie for everyone?
A: NO, The crew clearly knew who their target audience was and delivered (without skimping).

Q: Will haters hate?
A: Do wizards piss on their robes?

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by GMT

It drags horribly during the first hour (almost to the point where there were better-paced Endless Eight episodes,)

This is a specious argument. There was nothing wrong with the pacing of the individual E8 episodes. No one has even been arguing that. Individually, they had their own issues, but they weren't all that bad. The problem was with the idea behind their execution, specifically that there were at least four too many of them.

And yes, the first half of the movie drags. It's supposed to. You've got the particularly less draggy portion at the beginning (which I do think they could have cut somewhat) and the intentionally draggy portion once he crosses over, which goes a long way toward helping to explain why Kyon wants to go back when it's so close to what he professes to want (it's boring). Could they have cut a few things? Of course. What movie couldn't, other than those which've had too much cut already?

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Basically this. I still think it's possible to enjoy something without having to borderline worship it as perfection, but tell that to the peanut gallery that seems so unaccepting of people who are willing to ask questions and discuss the problems they had with a movie.

I think the reason your posts inspire so much bile and fanboy raeg isn't that you're a "lost lamb to be brought back into the fold", it's that you really don't seem to be able to carry much of an argument without tossing a strawman into the mix. There aren't nearly as many fans who "borderline worship" this movie "as perfection" as you seem to think, and none of those are sapient enough to write anything more complex than some variation of "OMG THIS MOVIE ROXXORZoneoneone".

All painting all of us with that far too broad brush is going to do is make people upset, which may well be the point, but it also masks the few good points you make (and then proceed to hammer on over and over and over).

Rather than "us" trying to change "you", it appears that you focus far too much on accenting the negative and thus trying to "fix" the enjoyment we have toward such an "obviously" flawed movie. Some of us enjoyed the movie more than you did. Get over it. Haters are gonna hate, but lovers are gonna love. And most are going to be somewhere in the middle.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

This is a specious argument. There was nothing wrong with the pacing of the individual E8 episodes. No one has even been arguing that. Individually, they had their own issues, but they weren't all that bad. The problem was with the idea behind their execution, specifically that there were at least four too many of them.

And yes, the first half of the movie drags. It's supposed to. You've got the particularly less draggy portion at the beginning (which I do think they could have cut somewhat) and the intentionally draggy portion once he crosses over, which goes a long way toward helping to explain why Kyon wants to go back when it's so close to what he professes to want (it's boring). Could they have cut a few things? Of course. What movie couldn't, other than those which've had too much cut already?

Oh! It was intentionally dragging during those parts GMT. I guess we just have to accept and appreciate it then....

I think the reason your posts inspire so much bile and fanboy raeg isn't that you're a "lost lamb to be brought back into the fold", it's that you really don't seem to be able to carry much of an argument without tossing a strawman into the mix. There aren't nearly as many fans who "borderline worship" this movie "as perfection" as you seem to think, and none of those are sapient enough to write anything more complex than some variation of "OMG THIS MOVIE ROXXORZoneoneone".

All painting all of us with that far too broad brush is going to do is make people upset, which may well be the point, but it also masks the few good points you make (and then proceed to hammer on over and over and over).

Rather than "us" trying to change "you", it appears that you focus far too much on accenting the negative and thus trying to "fix" the enjoyment we have toward such an "obviously" flawed movie. Some of us enjoyed the movie more than you did. Get over it. Haters are gonna hate, but lovers are gonna love. And most are going to be somewhere in the middle.

So by me posting my impressions in here and then defending myself from an onslaught of "it's that way cause it's supposed to be" and "You don't know enough about the franchise" it's me trying to say others aren't allowed to enjoy the movie more than me? I'm sorry I'm missing the part about who is painting who with the broad brush. In the meantime I think I'll go watch a hockey game and then we'll figure this all out. Keep in mind though that I just got finished saying that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything and that they are free to make up their own damn minds about the movie. Also note that every single post I've made since my initial commentary on the movie has only been as a reply to something somebody has said to me regarding said commentary. Maybe I don't know....just let it be and I'll have nothing else to say, explain, clarify, whatever? Just a hint.....

[Archangel Roy]

Sorry that this is off topic but. Its a really great movie. Possibly one of my favorites of all time. People may differ from this opinion, but everyone has their own thoughts, right? So lets keep the flame to our selves?

[tyranuus]

Without wanting to read to much and spoil it, but is it the sort of movie that only a real Haruhi fan will love, or is it the sort of movie that is a bit of fun as long as you've some idea what came before?

Ive seen fan-orientated movies go either way, some seem to rely on the fans knowledge of the series and evertything that goes with it, whilst others are fine as long as you've got a basic grasp of whats going on.

Im guessing a lot of the time it sticks roughly to the same mix of elements as the anime (bit of sci fi, humour, touch of a romance/relationship undercurrent, lots of Kyon's sarcastic wit and aggravated commentary etc)

[A. Esbee]

Been reading this conversation for a while now and I wanted to step in for this:

Originally Posted by quigonkenny
This is a specious argument. There was nothing wrong with the pacing of the individual E8 episodes. No one has even been arguing that. Individually, they had their own issues, but they weren't all that bad. The problem was with the idea behind their execution, specifically that there were at least four too many of them.

And yes, the first half of the movie drags. It's supposed to. You've got the particularly less draggy portion at the beginning (which I do think they could have cut somewhat) and the intentionally draggy portion once he crosses over, which goes a long way toward helping to explain why Kyon wants to go back when it's so close to what he professes to want (it's boring). Could they have cut a few things? Of course. What movie couldn't, other than those which've had too much cut already?

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama
Oh! It was intentionally dragging during those parts GMT. I guess we just have to accept and appreciate it then....

Appreciate, certainly not. If it felt like it dragged to you, then you're certainly entitled to feel that way. But I don't think it's unfair to accept that part of the film as being intentionally slow-paced (whether you enjoyed it or not). The color scheme, the music, and indeed the pacing are all designed to create a melancholic atmosphere. For me, I actually found these bits engaging and interesting, because it's the first time we've ever seen Kyon be so emotionally open. His usually cool exterior is cracked open for the first time, and I think it's given just the right amount of time to be effective and justifiable.

Which is not to say that the movie doesn't have slow bits. Personally, I find the time between Kyon finding Haruhi again and Kyon's meeting with Nagato on Tanabata, to be the biggest drag of the film, save for the actual "collecting the keys" bit. Everything after Kyon waking up could easily have been cut down too; it works in a book but in a movie it's just a lot of blabber. But, slowness happens. It's preferable to being too fast and not making sense.

Without wanting to read to much and spoil it, but is it the sort of movie that only a real Haruhi fan will love, or is it the sort of movie that is a bit of fun as long as you've some idea what came before?

In my opinion, it can still be fun if you have some idea, but it's only really effective if you're a fan. As interesting as the debate going on is, it's not a standalone film and shouldn't be treated or judged as one; a lot of it lives and dies on how interested and invested you are in the characters (most particularly Kyon, and Yuki to some extent).