(L) Moso Dairinin (Paranoia agent)

[Quarkboy]

I just had a vision: This is the final scene of Paranoia Agent

All the charaters from the series are sitting in a circle, indian-style, holding hands. Maromi is in the center of the circle. Meanwhile Shounen-bat is blading around the circle, tapping each person on the head with his bat saying "Duck". After he goes around a few times, he heads straight for the camera, swinging hard and screaming "Goose!", -cut to black.

OK, so that was fiction (I know the 13'th episode has already aired....), but wouldn't that be so awesome.

[dreamless]

just finished the series... all I can say is.... this is at least at the same level of End of Eva... absolutely crazy! I feel really dizzy now... I need to rewatch the earlier episodes to get a better understanding of the whole picture... @_@

[Yxy]

Several things went through my mind while I was watching 12 and 13
"Woah"
"huh?"
"WTF??"
etc >_<

Originally Posted by dreamless

just finished the series... all I can say is.... this is at least at the same level of End of Eva... absolutely crazy! I feel really dizzy now... I need to rewatch the earlier episodes to get a better understanding of the whole picture... @_@

[wao]

Episode 12 has been subbed, and I'm quite amazed. This is truly getting to be a very scary, large-scale issue. And I'm quite confused too - when everything on its own was so difficult to understand, putting them all together is just mind-boggling. But it's a brilliant episode. Very, very good. Very.

Apparently the whole thing about Maromi, the bat and all of that, comes from Tsukiko's past.

Spoiler for ep12:

As a small child she had a dog called Maromi, and I think somebody killed it. She was so angry that she decided to take revenge on the dog with this baseball bat, to hit whoever was responsible for this. So now we tie in three large things: Maromi, Shounen Bat and responsibility. Sagi herself hasn't been taking enough responsibility for the new designs, and that Maromi (Oh GOD. Maromi is ABSOLUTELY EVIL. *EVIL*. ***EVIL***.) makes her listen to her so much... What is Sagi going to do when she finds out she's responsible for the only other creation, Shounen Bat?
Oh, and Maniwa has really gotten trapped in this whole game-thing - but only on the surface. Deep down he knows what to do, and has been following the right paths. Oh, the poor poor guy...

Yes, anyway, Maromi is indescribably evil.

[tsurumaru]

Originally Posted by wao

Yes, anyway, Maromi is indescribably evil.

Fantastic Series, along with GITS SAC this will go on my shopping list whenever it is released over here.

As for Maromi, at first I agreed with you but now I'm not entirely so sure:

Spoiler:

I think that although Maromi and Shounen Bat are the "same" they are actually flipsides of the same phenomenom, that is imagination used as a means of escape from reality. Tsukiko obviously lived a life greatly detatched from reality she could not accept responsibility for her own actions and part of her psyche became Shounen Bat bringing retribution to a person cornered by their situation (sagi-san at first, but then later others in the same situation as the power invested in a delusion grew).
Maromi was created in much the same way but to protect Sagi-san from the responsibility by further divorcing her from reality, this "protection" could in some ways been seen as a useful trait as many people need support when facing emotionally tough times. However the crux of the problem is that this divorcing from reality just created more problems for Sagi-san in the long run (and allowed Shounen Bat to continue to exist) she just seems to be putting off the inevitable and others are suffering in the meantime (so you could says that Maromi is not especially helpful in this sense! )
I think she needs to face up to what she did and accept it in which way she could hopefully banish Shounen Bat and Maromi and relate to others (like her father).

Otherwise I think someone else might put her out of her misery and end it all!

Anyway I haven't seen the raws and am eagerly awaiting the final episode!

[dreamless]

I can't really decide whether the "shounen bat cataclysm" at the end of the series is real or just paranoia/imagination. Is there anything supernatural involved or not?

[Spiggy]

Ahh...I'm finally up-to-date on the series. I'm greatly enjoying it like always. I'm loving the fact that it's all piecing together. Ep 11 was funny as hell.

Spoiler:

Shounen Bat couldn't do anything to Mrs. Ikari b/c she didn't feel cornered. He was losing it and getting completely impatient like a little kid.

I knew that this was going to be a good series to watch. Hope it finishes strong by answering some questions but still leaving us wanting more.

[tsurumaru]

Originally Posted by dreamless

I can't really decide whether the "shounen bat cataclysm" at the end of the series is real or just paranoia/imagination. Is there anything supernatural involved or not?

I haven't seen the last episode yet but I'm assuming you are referring to the people being engulfed by the "blackness" in the next episode section of EP 12. I'm pretty sure that this is a representation of despair (whether or not an actual physical one yet I'm not sure remember this series heavily treads into the boundaries of peoples delusions!). Peoples imaginations have a beneficial role to play too!

[wao]

Originally Posted by tsurumaru

I haven't seen the last episode yet but I'm assuming you are referring to the people being engulfed by the "blackness" in the next episode section of EP 12. I'm pretty sure that this is a representation of despair (whether or not an actual physical one yet I'm not sure remember this series heavily treads into the boundaries of peoples delusions!). Peoples imaginations have a beneficial role to play too!

AURWSFLSH!!! Maromi is EVIL! She may seem like she's helping Sagi in the short run but she's being completely inconsiderate and... EVIL!

Plus, her voice just reeks of evil. UUuuuaagh.

[tsurumaru]

Originally Posted by wao

AURWSFLSH!!! Maromi is EVIL! She may seem like she's helping Sagi in the short run but she's being completely inconsiderate and... EVIL!

Plus, her voice just reeks of evil. UUuuuaagh.

LOL I have no idea if AURWSFLSH is actually a acronym or something
Yes I do know what you mean though MAromi has the whole EVIL Ningyou deal going on
I'm just not sure yet if Maromi and her "Circle of Peace" is ultimately a bad thing or not "The best intentions..." and all that.

[wao]

I watched episode 13.... and... well...

I have no bloody idea. No, no, and no.

I'm lost for words.

But it is such a masterpiece, yes...

And now we have to take each stepping stone, like Maniwa-who-has-become-an-old-man says, and put it together, and it comes around, and around, and around.

I don't know... I just don't know.... I have no sanity left...

[Quarkboy]

I apologize for the long post.

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

My theory:

After rewatching the first episode, look carefully at the second attack scene, when they show shonen bat standing in front of Tsuki-chan, muromi-chan (the plushy) is positioned in shonen bat's shadow so that it looks like shonen bat's face.

That's why I think Tsuki actually created shonen bat, like she created muromi, except shonen bat is running amuk. Perhaps she has some special power...

...it's as if Shonen bat is only defined by the public's fickle vision of him. In some ways, he might even be a pitiable character, created out of Tsuki's wish to get out of her situation.

I know it's bad form to reply to one's own posts...

Spoiler:

But I'd just like to point out that I was totally right on the money with this guess I made after only watching 3 episodes.

My thoughts on the ending: Not as insane as some might think. Over the top yes, but illogical no. The only thing I would have liked to be explained more was why Tsukiko had this amazing ability to manifest her feelings as objects. At what point exactly did Maromi go from fond childhood memory to living ningyou?

Questions: Does anyone have any ideas of the significance of the doll-making guy and his dolls (or the other way around, from the dolls perspective)? It somehow seemed like he was planned for a larger role but squeezed out due to time constraints. The whole thing with them helping "Radar Man" was cute, but seemed out of context somehow... what did it represent?
Who was the old woman who was always collecting trash? If we remember, she was the only witness to Tsukiko's first attack, but she was washed down the river during the tsunami... Are we to expect she somehow survived that? Or was when Tsukiko saw her only an illusion? Was she some conterpart to the Sage in metaphorical signifacance or was her character purely there for plot purposes?

Here's my biggest question: If Shounen Bat was initially created by Tsukiko, as well as Maromi, why was only Shoenen bat changed and morphed by popular opinion? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both aparitions? Or maybe that very fact was what made Maromi such a success: Everyone thinks Maromi is cute so Maromi becomes cute so everyone thinks Maromi is super-cute so Maromi becomes super-cute so.... and on and on.

I am also a little concerned about the mixed message the anime sent on the primary point: Is it better to have your problems solved by circumstance, or to deal with them on your own? I thought that the whole point of episode 10 was to demostrate the latter, but in the final episode we see two contradictory flashes: 1. We see a shot of the schizophrenic teacher as her alter ego once again, implying that Shoenen bat's quick fix was only temporary... i.e. her problem can't be so easily solved. (Quick question: Was the man she was with her husband, or just a "client"... I can't remember) 2. We have a longer shot of "Daddy" passing by his daughter, and she seems happy and doesn't recognize him (presumambly because the amnesia caused by Shounen bat was permanent). This kind of implies that her situation IS better off due to Shoenen bat's intervention.
Are we supposed to believe that Shoenen bat was actually justified for his actions in that case? That she made the right decision by calling him? Hmmmm.

Some things to look for in the last episode on a second viewing: Pay careful attention to the short clips you see of the secondary characters from the show, some of them reveal further developments/connections in their stories.

[dreamless]

currently I see at least two theories about the ending

Spoiler:

1. people's paranoia and delusion fueled the Shounen Bat, a supernatural phenomenon which was created by Tsukiko, to let the imagination invade and almost destroy reality. It showed that in the modern world all those people are so stressed and tried to escape reality into the imagination, which becomes Shounen Bat's nutrition to grow larger and more powerful each day.

2. the whole thing is just people's imagination interacting with reality, the final episode showing Shounen Bat engulfing everyone is just to show that Maromi has become a spiritual idol for people through various media and propaganda, and all those people try to get Maromi to escape reality, end up fighting and destroying the city due to the lack of Maromi supply

[wao]

Maybe it's a discreet call to otakus to stop wallowing in fictionous, ad-hoc relief. :O!

A lot of this is also based on responsibility. What grew from a child's unwillingness to take responsibility (and also could have come across because of her exclusion from society... that might just be another theme.), extends and extends into other people's unwillingness and feeds on the other sign of it - slavishly clinging onto ad-hoc relief in order to forget about the responsibility.

I feel so bad writing that... I deserve to be swallowed by Shounen bat :\

[tsurumaru]

Fantastic! Absolutely brilliant! Such a great series, and thanks to you guys for sharing the journey with me. As a gift to fellow fans here is something I think you'll find interesting that I found:

http://www.teslakite.com/freemp3s/

The top two sections contain free downloadable tracks that didn't make it into the Final Paranoia Agent OST, they have been provided by the composer Susumu Hirasawa for free download and are therefore not Warez. Therefore download to your hearts content .

[Secca]

I'm just started watching this and on episode 2 now. Lol Ichi just crack me up, I cannot believe he's only an elementary school kid.

And Maromi is so cute. ^^

[dreamless]

Maromi is cute and EVIL!!!!

the second episode is definitely some of the best... and I think it's eeriely realistic... I do remember back in the elementary school when I lost in the class rep vote... oh well XD

[Secca]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Maromi is cute and EVIL!!!!

the second episode is definitely some of the best... and I think it's eeriely realistic... I do remember back in the elementary school when I lost in the class rep vote... oh well XD

Quick Maromi Avatar. ^^

Lol Ichi is a fun character to watch.



I was laughing so hard when he said oasis for my heart. XD

Did he got smack for real in the end of that episode? ^^

[Secca]

Lol this show is on crack. XD

Spoiler for ep 4,5:

I didn't expect the Shounen Bat to be captured in episode 4 already, that was a surprising plot twist. ^^ I tought he was something like Maromi and just cannot be explained.

And OMG Episode 5 is even more hilarious, I was like going wooooooow :0 and cannot stop laughing how it was all make sense acording to the book.

This is a really cool series. ^^

[Secca]

About episode 8,

Spoiler for ep 8:

Maybe I've gone crazy, I was so laughing so hard watching 3 people trying to commit suicide in this episode. >_<

The guy jump in front of the train was so hilarious and very unexpected. XD

The best part when they chased the Shounen Bat. ^^

"Shounen Bat-sama! We've wanted to see you!" XD

--------------------

But toward the end of this episode become really strange. I got the feeling that something is not right. It wasn't until the girls who were taking pictures start screaming, then it suddenly hit me, they already dead aren't they?

Then I rewatch and trace back this episode again and paid more attention this time. They don't cast shadows! >_<;;; They already dead a long time ago, I wonder how long they been dead?

I was having having goosebumps when I realized, I've been laughing at dead people.