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View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 22.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 23.73% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 37.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 15.25% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.69% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-06, 00:22 | Link #161 |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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All this talk about what Shiina should do to not waste talent that others would give everything to possess makes me wish there's a Sibyl System in place to simply decide everyone's vocation according to their potential. In any case, I agree that it's ultimately up to Shiina to decide how she would like to use her talent. She is under no obligation to live up to any expectations other than her own.
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2012-12-06, 00:35 | Link #162 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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All the talk about how she should do this and that, in the end they are just words, if Mashiro definitlly decides to chase her manga dream, then what can Rita do? Hugging Sorata for the rest of her life, in any case, Mashiro still has the upper hand as she's an adult that has all the rights to do that (as dependant as she can be though)
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2012-12-06, 00:48 | Link #163 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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Have to say I really want to follow Mashiro's example and throw Rita out the door. Maybe Sorata as well after the end of this episode.
Certainly has the talent and ability to be an amazing artist. But no where under the belief that people have free will does she have to be one. Let's make all the art lovers of the world happy while keeping her miserable for the rest of her life? Is Mashiro's happiness worth nothing at all? Besides who the heck cares if she wants to spend some time making manga? She can easily go back to painting after that career is over if she cares to. It's her call and her life. Some nut from England doesn't have the right to dive into her life here and harass her into doing something she doesn't want to do. I don't know. Just got annoyed at how Rita had the nerve to pull this kind of stunt. What kind of idiot is she to expect that Mashiro would just nod and say ok after being told to come back? Frankly I just wonder about her motives. I don't really see any good ones here. I just think she's here to punish Mashiro for being able to chase her dreams (after Mashiro "broke her"). Really stands out as very manipulative. Use Sorata to get back into that house, using Mashiro's jealousy to further aggravate the situation and then trying to get Sorata to argue her side by taking him to see the painting. Until we are living under Destiny Plans (Gundam Seed) or Sibyl Systems (Psycho-Pass) I think Mashiro can waste whatever talents she wants. Mashiro found something so important that she went half way across the world in order to chase it. She certainly doesn't need to go back just because "the public" demands her next painting.
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2012-12-06, 01:37 | Link #164 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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So that's why I can't accept your Michael Jordan example, and I don't believe in a "responsibility to the world" or some sense of shame if someone squanders a talent "that could benefit humanity". I don't feel "what an incredible waste of talent" if someone chooses to do something else with their life, because each person has to pursue their own happiness and sense of purpose. Of course, people who truly care should present all the options and help explore the possibilities... but at the end of the day, the only one who can "own" my talents is me. I'm quite sure that's just the way it has to be. Freedom is a more valuable gift than any talent.
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2012-12-06, 01:50 | Link #165 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I think the subject on Rita's action has been duscussed enough, so I won't be bother typing them again. But for Sorata, if he sees a picture of that caliber and still can say straight away without any doubt that Mashiro should just keep drawing manga instead of painting, it would suprise me very much.
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2012-12-06, 06:36 | Link #167 | ||||
Senior Member
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Bringing up things like Psycho-Pass' Sibyl System and Gundam Seed's Destiny Plan strikes me as missing the point entirely. We're talking about natural talent so great that you don't need such elaborate systems to create, discover, and/or cultivate it.
There's a massive difference between trying to micromanage every last person's life, and simply telling your amazing Spiderman that "With great power comes great responsibility". Talent is, at least in part, a form of power. Talent is empowering, after all. So, could one reasonably say "With great talent comes great responsibility"? To me, it doesn't seem like that big of a stretch off of the original Stan Lee quote. The Spiderman origin story is all about a young man turned superhero learning to have a social conscience. It's all about learning that it's a waste for a person that somehow becomes gifted with great power to not put that to good use and to some societal benefit. Now obviously you don't expect the individual to sacrifice everything for the good of society, but you can reasonably expect the uniquely well-positioned (be it with power or talent) to at least be considerate of what their unique opportunities could bring for both themselves and the world. Rita raises points to Mashiro that ought to be raised. While the final decision is Mashiro's, these are not points that nobody should bring up, out of some fear of offending Mashiro. Rita was being too pushy, but on the whole, it is probably good that she did what she did in this episode. Quote:
Posting on Anime Suki is one of the things I do for fun in my spare time. It's not my livelihood. Quote:
The price of having substantially more abilities, talent, power, etc... than the average person is that more is expected of you. You have greater opportunities but what comes with it is greater expectation. Quote:
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Sorry, but I can't agree with that.
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2012-12-06, 07:08 | Link #168 |
Mmmm....
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I'm kind of reminded of another young artistic prodigy, Hagu from Honey and Clover, who comes under a lot of pressure to produce new works each as good as or better than the last. There's one scene in particular when she's kneeling in front of an empty canvas, in despair. Frantically trying to produce the new works expected of her.
Maybe this is a similar case. Who's to say that Shiina was not under a lot of pressure to produce new work, was feeling stifled and trapped, and that led her to escape to Japan to try something different with her life? Rita may have good intentions, but we know what road is paved with them. Maybe she doesn't realise WHY Shiina wanted to do something else. I think there's backstory yet to be revealed, here. |
2012-12-06, 07:56 | Link #169 | |||
Me at work
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Also her reaction to seeing Rita (who was her caretaker) wasn't "oh crap they found me" but a welcome hug. Also there's this small exchange: Shiina: You helped me start drawing manga. Rita: I only taught you how to use a computer.I didn't help you with anything else. Shiina: Rita... Quote:
I do have another example of a similar case,I'm a hardcore Oakland A's fan (a baseball team) and a couple years ago a young 23 year old player who was starting to be hyped in the fanbase as the A's future centerfielder quit baseball to become a priest,this came out of nowhere and shocked everyone, here's a long article about him Here's a quote from one of his former teammate (who wasn't good enough and didn't make it to the major leagues) that's similar to what some are saying Quote:
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2012-12-06, 08:32 | Link #170 | |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 38
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Mashiro, and no other human being, have that responsibility. They might choose to shoulder it regardless, for whatever reason, they might even feel driven and empowered by all said attention. But it is not within anyone's rights to demand of said person to conform to those expectations. It's her life to live, and her talent to not utilize if she so chooses. Me, you, and no one else really gets a claim to accessibility to her talent, nor do we get to demand (with any relevance) that she makes herself available for it. She is her own person first and foremost, as are we all, with the same basic rights and freedoms. What the masses want doesn't have any more claim over her than it does over anyone else, talent or no talent. Which is to say, if she doesn't want to paint for now, then they can only accept it. Or alternatively complain about it, but random dish rattling doesn't transform in to actually relevant authority over her career choices only because the dish rattlers would like that to be the case. She has no responsibility towards these masses, towards the field of art, or anything else. She can choose to have, but the very suggestion that she should shoulder it for the betterment of others, irregardless of her feelings on the subject, is an insult to human liberties. The question of which is the better medium, which leaves a bigger inspiration, which is more critically acclaimed and all that - it doesn't matter. Not one bit. The answers to those (which may be up to debate) are only as important as they are to Mashiro. Is she searching answers to those, and wants to base her immediate activity on them? Then they matter. She doesn't care about that, and simply wants to draw what makes her happy without those considerations? Then they don't matter. They might matter to someone else, but if they don't matter to Mashiro, then they might as well not matter at all. The needs of her would-be fans do not (and should not) enter the equation, on any other grounds than her own choosing to make them part of said equation. It's her life to live and her talent to do with as she pleases, even if that means "squandering" it (according to people who want her to do what they like. Obviously something else must be bad) not some kind of a public property that everyone has a claim to. If she wants to take a temporary break, that's her choice. Even if she wanted to abandon painting altogether, that would still be her choice. Strangers and their demands simply aren't a part of the equation.
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Last edited by Skyfall; 2012-12-06 at 08:55. |
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2012-12-06, 08:46 | Link #171 | ||
Me at work
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2012-12-06, 08:56 | Link #172 |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Talking your friend out of a bad career decision is not a violation of human rights- Yes, objectively speaking World class painter to average Mangaka is not the best of career moves, you don't need to be an expert to know that.
(Yes it makes Mashiro happy blah blah blah... Still a bad career move.) At this point the decision making right is still with Mashiro, nobody is dragging her back yet so until that happens, please stop bringing the whole Human Rights thing because that's simply not the issue right now.
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2012-12-06, 09:01 | Link #173 |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 38
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No, the issue is that the empty argument of "she has a responsibility to her fans to continue painting" was brought up. No she does not, and there exists no such responsibility. Whether that's a good career choice or not couldn't be less relevant, even if it were objective (which it is not), and certainly not for the side with vested interest in her continued painting to make an objective call on.
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2012-12-06, 09:09 | Link #174 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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One other thing I want to mention though is regardless of the argument before- I hope you're not saying that her jump to Mangaka is actually a good career choice, because the only thing it has going for her is that 'it makes her happy'.
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2012-12-06, 09:11 | Link #175 | ||
Me at work
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2012-12-06, 09:28 | Link #176 | ||
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 38
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The "It makes her happy" is the actually important part, not the things listed above, so long as said career provides Mashiro with the necessities she needs. A career that brings in enough money to satisfy her lifestyle and emotional needs is a better choice than a career that gives her widespread recognition in a certain field (that she perhaps doesn't want), millions of cash (that she probably has no use for) and a chance to go down in history (which she may not care about). If the former provides all she needs and makes her happy, then that's a better choice than the later which produces excess amounts of things she doesn't need and is unhappy. The "Does it make her happy" is actually the first question that should be asked, because we are talking about it with a specific person in mind, with specific needs. So the question isn't "which is the better career choice", but "which is the better career choice for Mashiro". Based on her needs, not those which would be normally tempting to others.
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2012-12-06, 09:42 | Link #177 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Right now she doesn't have to support anyone- she has a roof over her head, food on the table, and clothes to wear, and an education at a decent school. Life is good. But once money becomes an issue and she starts to feel the pinch... I wonder if you could still say the same thing...?
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2012-12-06, 10:06 | Link #178 | |
Me at work
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The one question I wonder though is when she's saying "no" to Rita,is she saying no to going back to painting,or no to going back to england?or both?Those are not the same thing.
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2012-12-06, 11:13 | Link #179 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I don't think Mashiro's responsibility is that for her to produce better artworks everydays, but to excel and be successful in Fine Art, given her talent, it's more ambigous than just producing amazing artworks for humanity. You know there're lots of stories about young student nowadays don't go to higher education, instead they choose to work right after high school or even middle school, even if they are smart and definitely have the potential to do very well in college and uni. The bottom line is that they earn money that way and the money they earn provide them a sense of hapiness, If you say it's not wrong for them to do that because it's their life, fine, you are not wrong. But on the parent's pov, if they had the ability to support their child for higher education and is happy to do that, if their children just scratch it away and doing what they want, of course there's going to be some reactions for that, If the parent just smiles and says "go ahead and do whatever you want" then I would suspect that they don't really care much for their child. And we might have different cultural value regarding this matter as well, in the West, yes it would more liberate for the individuals. But in the East, we do get bound by the responsibility to answer our parent, teachers or friends expectation for what we do in the future. Yes, you may say it is nonsense and yes, we sometimes try to break free from that. But it's there for a reason, and there's a majority of people who still think it is the right thing to do. I think one of the reason Japan can get to what it is today has a lot to do with their way of respect for responsibilty and discipline for society. "3 idiots", an Indian movie is actually a very good example for this, and I myself had the same issue when choosing my major to study. In the end, the guys in the movie and I are still doing things we wanted, not paricularly things that our parent had initially wished, but we have the mutual understandings for this matter and for me that's true happiness. So for Mashiro I think it's the same, it's not only about getting Mashiro to understand her expectation of others for her (not necessary oblige to follow that), but also Mashiro making people understanding her passion and feelings on the subject. It has to go both ways, Rita is Mashiro's ex-caretaker, and arguably her best friend (not some jackass control freak), she cannot just outright reject Rita without listening or telling her feelings about the subject matter, that's not something a friend should do to each other, at least in my definition of a good friendship.
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Last edited by Zavie; 2012-12-06 at 11:23. |
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2012-12-06, 11:52 | Link #180 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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For those that said Rita did not say stop making manga and just paint. She flat outright did Shiina in Japan is able to do both paint and have manga published if she wishes. But Rita is adamant about Shiina going back to England and there she will not have a manga publisher to publish Manga so how can you say Rita did not tell Shiina to stop making manga?
Shiina, is in the best place for her where she can do both to her hearts content living the life she enjoys and Rita is trying to take that happiness from her. It was here in this episode that we see how much Shiina has matured she knew EXACTLY what Rita meant when trying to take her back to England and threw Rita out! Bravo! She stood up for herself probably for the very first time. When we first met Shiina she gave off the expression of someone that was so passive that she was a bird in a cage and did what she was told and never strayed. She probably was suppose to be a short term visit to Japan as the teacher is her cousin but when she got there she found she liked it and even getting a manga published. Under Sorata care he has been making her learn a bit about taking care of herself some and the concept of money to buy things she wants. I still feel with how she had no clue about the real world out there and no common sense and how her short visit to Japan has matured her so much they did not want her self reliant in any way just to keep painting her paintings. The whole thing still makes me think if it wasn't all about money it was also about the others greed do not try to make her self reliant and they can essentially control her and have her do nothing but paint. That is how it came out to me from the very beginning because she is a genius and we know she is not dumb she has learned to use phones and texting and the purpose of money slowly under all there guidance but yet she is as old as she was and did not know any of this before? That just smells of someone that was kept down and made to stay reliant for other motives. BTW does anyone here know what the meaning of the title is? It sounds like a double meaning here as it's not just talking about the cats as Shiina appears to have been treated the same way as a dependant pet that wants to make the master happy. |
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