[Manga] Naruto Chapter 550 Discussion

[Frenchie]

Chapter 403 'Tears', page 4.

Spoiler:

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Apparently not since he seemed surprised to hear that Madara had told Sasuke the truth.

Spoiler for Chapter 549:

Sounds to me like Itachi always suspected

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Haak

Spoiler for Chapter 549:

Sounds to me like Itachi always suspected

Of course he was surprised, his plan was to keep secret that it was an order of Konoha's leaders (well, one part of the leaders). He took the blame for that instead of Konoha, since Shishui's ideals became his ideals too. And because of that he told the same lie to everybody, including Madara. He tought it would be bad if Madara knew the truth, and we see now how bad it is, because now Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, Yamato, etc. know already, and who know what other people will learn about Konoha destroying it's own people and about the Uchiha trying to gain control of Konoha. By Kishimoto's logic this is a bad thing, if someone wants to find a plot hole he should question this part, i mean in a world where people do all sort of crazy stuff with each other why would this be such a shame that a village and clan want to make of this a secret at all costs. Just an example: kumo tried to kidnap the future head of one of the greatest clans, and then Konoha leaders agree that the head of the clan should be killed to make peace. After such a disgraceful and disgusting thing i don't see the whole Uchiha massacre as anything that can make the village look even more shitty. The other reason told by Kishimoto is a possible civil war, that sounds nonsense also, 2 people could kill the whole clan without the village noticing, so why would it be so hard to do the same without keeping it secret and not causing a civil war. Another reason was that it might cause other villages attack Konoha, but then why didn't they attack when they heard that the whole Uchiha clan was destroyed, presumably that should have greatly weakened the village. None of the reasons stand, but who cares, we should just look at this issue from a greater distance so that we can't see any plot holes here, then we can enjoy the manga

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Whoa, careful dude. Word of the wise, if you say anything even remotely offensive in this forum they'll ban you like there's no tomorrow.

...Oh wait, that only applies to people who have the minority opinion. Nevermind.

Clearly not the case since the vast majority of the posts you've made in the last 6 months have been flame baiting the Naruto forums, yet the mods haven't done anything about you. But I digress.

Yeah, or maybe he should be immediately attacking Nagato instead of just standing around and expositing for 5 minutes. Actually, anything except doing that.

Already covered by others, but to summarize: Is your memory of the chapter that bad?

Shisui is supposed to be the best genjutsu user in the entire series and he's only been briefly mentioned 2 or 3 times, and has had a maximum of 5 panels of screen time. He's the most transparent plot device ever. Actually, he's not a plot device, he's a plot fairy.

He has one very powerful genjutsu. I'd say Itachi is still the better genjutsu user overall, given his ability to control time within genjutsu, cast illusions by pointing at people with his finger, and supposedly genjutsu people from miles away. The only things special about Shisui's genjutsu are that from the victim's perspective it's very natural, and sensor ninjas can't tell the victim is being controlled just by looking at him (Ao could only tell Mifune was being controlled at the summit by examining Danzou's chakra). It's kind of like Lelouch's Geass, but without having a seemingly random chance of making the victim act like a mindless zombie. All this said, I don't think Danzou was using exactly the same jutsu, since it seems the Mangekyou version doesn't have to be maintained in any way and can just be treated as "set it and forget it." That's what makes it particularly dangerous in my opinion, since it allows for sending someone back to their village as a sleeper agent.

Did Kakashi explain that each person's Mangekyo has a unique power at the time? Honestly, I have only the vaguest memory of him even using that technique. Have any other Mangekyo users shown unique powers? What are Itachi's and Sasuke's unique powers?

Each Mangekyou user has been shown to have one super power per eye, plus Susano'o if they've mastered the Mangekyou in both eyes. If you're seriously upset that Kishi has shown rather than told this, you need to reevaluate what you think makes effective writing.

Itachi:

Tsukiyomi (the super illusion with time manipulation, in case you're going to ask me what this is due to only having the vaguest memory of him even using it; Kakashi has used Kamui more than we've seen Itachi use Tsukiyomi now, so I wouldn't put it past you)

Amaterasu (the black flames that do not extinguish until their target has been completely burned up or the user stops the jutsu)

Sasuke:

Amaterasu (see above)

Enton (The ability to shape and manipulate the black flames. And yes, it was specifically mentioned that Sasuke controls this with one Mangekyou eye while using the other to actually cast Amaterasu. I actually have my own theory regarding why the natures of the abilities require different eyes, but that's something for an actual discussion.)

Kakashi:

Kamui (Opens a wormhole-like vortex to suck in things and can then close it off. He used this against Deidara twice to miss him and then cut off his arm, Deidara's clone's self-explosion to not get killed, twice against Pain's attacks to save useless scrubs, once against Pain's flying nail to not get killed, and again against Sasuke's Susano'o arrows to not get killed)

He only has one Sharingan eye to have Mangekyou in, so he has no other special power as far as we know.

Right. So HOW does he do it?

The way you draw at straws is so cute. And by cute I mean pathetic. This isn't the first time someone has made a jutsu that reacts to specific circumstances. See: Naruto apparently having shades of both his parents sealed inside him. And let's not forget Fu from the Yamanaka clan, who made a puppet designed to cast a body transfer jutsu when attacked. But let's get into specifics to shut you up.

Nagato alluded to the mechanism with regards to Mangekyou recognition in this chapter if you care about such a thing (as you've pretended to for the sake of your trolling). Apparently the air around Itachi changes in a specific way when he's getting ready to use a Mangekyou jutsu, and Nagato even thought he was about to cast Amaterasu at one point because of this (Itachi did cast it as it turns out, just not at Naruto thanks to the crow). The funny thing is you can't even say this was only introduced now, because Zetsu made a similar remark way back when Itachi was fighting Sasuke. Is it chakra? Is it Sharingan reiatsu? I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. People sensitive to it can tell when Itachi is charging a Mangekyou jutsu (or at least Amaterasu), and that means he can rig the crow to react to that. As for when he put his Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye, Madara explained himself that it responded to the sight of Madara's Sharingan. Not that hard since Sasuke's eye is... you know... an eye.

Right. So WHY did Itachi think Sasuke might turn to the dark side?

Frenchie already posted the exact chapter page that covers this. It's literally right there on the page.

Oh yeah. Was that ever explained?

I just said it was a convenient coincidence for the plot.

Hahaha, no. This is what we call "the author writing himself into a corner." See, most authors will establish plot points and pieces of information in a gradual and well-paced manner using various literary devices. But what Kishi has done here is attempted to tie-up a loose end by creating an extremely arbitrary plot point at the last minute to make it appear that it somehow makes sense.

Do you balk like this every time a new piece of information is introduced in every story? We learned exactly one new thing this chapter that wasn't directly addressed or alluded to in previous chapters, and that was the length of the cool down on Shisui's eye. If we knew every detail of every story ahead of time, there would be no such thing as an interesting or unpredictable story, because we'd all know exactly how everything was going to unfold. If you really think stories aren't huge strings of plot conveniences thrown together to make the story unfold the way the writer wants, I seriously question whether you've written anything. Then again, given how flimsy your responses are becoming, you've demonstrated quite the ability to write yourself into a corner.

My point was that combining Hashirama's chakra with Shisui's technique was arbitrary and made no sense. See, this is another example of Kishi making a rushed and arbitrary wrap-up of a plot point at the last minute.

Danzou did this ages ago, and Madara himself mentioned back then that Hashirama's chakra was enhancing his ability to use his Sharingan. This is another example of you being annoyed that Kishi gave precedent for something but you being unable to figure out its implications. It's okay; it doesn't make you dumb. It's what decent authors can manage to pull off.

Also, the 10 year limit didn't even exist until this chapter. For all we knew, Shisui could've used the technique as often as Danzo could.

I'm also sure Obito would have been able to use his Sharingan without collapsing from exhaustion the way Kakashi does, and maybe even without a three Kamui uses per coma limit. It's been established since early Part 1 that a Sharingan has to be in an Uchiha body to be used to its full potential. And Kakashi reestablishes it every time he uses his. Are you going to be a grown-up about this, or are you going to feign not being able to remember Kakashi ever using his Sharingan like you supposedly can't remember him using Kamui? All that said, I'm not convinced Danzou's jutsu is this exact one, since he had to maintain his in proximity to the victim (not that it matters in this context). It's very likely the Mangekyou version is simply far more powerful, similar to how Itachi's Tsukiyomi is a more powerful version of his normal genjutsu by virtue of adding manipulation of time perception.

Kishi portrayed Itachi's actions in a noble light. He wants us to like Itachi for attempting to do this. And Naruto certainly didn't seem to have any problem with it, and we all know he'd be the first to speak up if anyone dared cross his lover friend.

Naruto already has spoken up about Itachi's actions. Back when he met him previously and told him he was a terrible brother (then got a crow shoved down his throat). And just in the chapter previous to this, he told him how his actions had the unintended effect of turning Sasuke into a complete d*****bag. It seems to me he's spoken up quite a bit. If you're mad that Naruto didn't speak up about Itachi not hypnotizing Sasuke, you need to re-read this series. Seriously. Naruto is nothing if not forgiving of villains he understands that only barely don't manage to kill his friends. See Haku, Zabuza and Nagato for reference. And it's pretty obvious Naruto wouldn't be okay with the specific action of brainwashing Sasuke, since he internally stated while arguing with the supporting cast over why he didn't take out Sasuke while he was weakened that he wanted to defeat Sasuke "on the inside," i.e. change his mind himself. But it didn't happen. It is consistent with Naruto's character to take a "no harm, no foul" stance in this situation. But since you apparently can't even remember as far back as Kakashi vs. Sasuke, I can understand if you're unfamiliar with the character traits Kishimoto has established for Naruto. It just disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion on any related matters.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The other reason told by Kishimoto is a possible civil war, that sounds nonsense also, 2 people could kill the whole clan without the village noticing, so why would it be so hard to do the same without keeping it secret and not causing a civil war. Another reason was that it might cause other villages attack Konoha, but then why didn't they attack when they heard that the whole Uchiha clan was destroyed, presumably that should have greatly weakened the village. None of the reasons stand, but who cares, we should just look at this issue from a greater distance so that we can't see any plot holes here, then we can enjoy the manga

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Itachi try to keep the truth hidden so that the Uchiha clan would remain a clan worth reviving (through Sasuke)? If people knew the truth then the clan would fall into disgrace (as the clan who basically got what they deserved for planning a coup d'etat), and there wouldn't be much left for Sasuke to bring back. I could be wrong, but I think that was his reasoning, anyway (I think it was Madara that said all this though, so who knows).

As for the threat of civil war, it was a far more real threat than you make it sound. While yes Itachi and Madara were quite easily capable of taking out the clan on their own, they also had the advantage of surprise on their side. Were the Uchiha able to carry out their coup d'etat the positions would be reversed; the Uchiha would have the initiative and be able to do some real damage, although I sincerely doubt they would've succeeded in overthrowing the Sandaime.

Regardless of the outcome, the end result would be Konoha's defenses weakened significantly, and its forces occupied fighting the Uchiha. With the village in a state like that it would be a prime target for other villages. On the other hand, Itachi taking out the Uchiha left Konoha weakened, but not unable to defend itself. Its defenses remained mostly intact, and they would have been quite capable of fending off an invasion.

That's my take on it, anyway. Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake or assessed the situation incorrectly.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Itachi try to keep the truth hidden so that the Uchiha clan would remain a clan worth reviving (through Sasuke)? If people knew the truth then the clan would fall into disgrace (as the clan who basically got what they deserved for planning a coup d'etat), and there wouldn't be much left for Sasuke to bring back. I could be wrong, but I think that was his reasoning, anyway (I think it was Madara that said all this though, so who knows).

That was one side of the reasoning, but as you saw even Danzou wanted to keep this secret, and in his case it was not for Uchiha but for the village.

Originally Posted by Akashin

As for the threat of civil war, it was a far more real threat than you make it sound. While yes Itachi and Madara were quite easily capable of taking out the clan on their own, they also had the advantage of surprise on their side. Were the Uchiha able to carry out their coup d'etat the positions would be reversed; the Uchiha would have the initiative and be able to do some real damage, although I sincerely doubt they would've succeeded in overthrowing the Sandaime.

The village had Itachi on their side, and many more strong clans. I think Uchiha were preparing for something special, probably it was to use the Kyuubi to do a surprise attack, since it was in their possession before Konoha was created. Using the kyuubi would make it possible to beat the old 3rd hokage, since the 4th was already dead, the kage was not that strong, as we have seen in his battle against Orochimaru. Also the elders feared that, since they assumed the Uchiha were behind the kyuubi attack and the death of the 4th hokage. My assumption is that this whole civil war thing was plotted by Madara, after he failed in an open attack, deciding to operate from the shadows is a logical decision.

Originally Posted by Akashin

Regardless of the outcome, the end result would be Konoha's defenses weakened significantly, and its forces occupied fighting the Uchiha. With the village in a state like that it would be a prime target for other villages. On the other hand, Itachi taking out the Uchiha left Konoha weakened, but not unable to defend itself. Its defenses remained mostly intact, and they would have been quite capable of fending off an invasion.

If Itachi was ordered to kill the Uchiha that means the village leaders regarded him very strong, so either that order is stupid or the civil war reasoning is stupid. Itachi had MS, he could have defended the kyuubi from being taken by the Uchiha. The only logical reason for him to kill his entire clan would be the fear that if he does not do so then maybe Madara will join the Uchiha, which would make the civil war a real possibility, but Itachi never said that Madara was the reason. We only know that they had a pact of some sort, as long as Itachi lived Madara didn't attack Konoha. Maybe Itachi let him take the Uchiha eyes, or something like that. And since Itachi played the evil guy here, he probably told Madara that he wants some of the eyes, or something else, maybe to have Shishui's eye and Sasuke's eyes, or something like that.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Sounds like a stretch. But hey, if you can show me a page where Itachi actually said something to this affect.


Apparently not since he seemed surprised to hear that Madara had told Sasuke the truth.


How does it know Itachi's Mangekyo has been activated? Does the crow somehow see the Mangekyo being activated from inside of Naruto? Does it have some sort of internal radar that picks up Itachi's Mangekyo chakra signal (if that's even a thing)?


Yeah, and...?

Quite the understatement.

Really? I thought it was a yaoi manga.

Details are not the issue here. And that dumb little insignia above my avatar has nothing to do with my opinion of this series.

Please don't tell me you think action alone automatically makes something good.

You should care how it works, because it's pretty important that an author follows the laws of the universe he/she has established for the story.

This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Reread my post.

I hate long one sided arguments which lead nowhere in the end,since you have said yourself that you just want to put this manga down for bad writing,and no matter what people say you will keep doing it,these kinda small details you should talk with Kishi about,as I already said I don't care about them as most of the fan base,which is the reason Kishi didn't go deep into it I'm sure,he thinks that it's not important,if it's important for you,hunt him down for interviews,he will have an answer to every question you have,we can only provide information taken from the manga,we can't get into Kishi's head.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to achieve by that ?Change people's mind about this manga ?Get answers ?So far you are the only one that doesn't make sense in my opinion,how it reacts to his Mangekyo could be a DNA/Chakra Check,could be something else i don't care about,every manga/book has mysteries,not everything is clear,the author can't get into people's heads,they(authors) have a lot of material running through their heads,they have to put it together and present it step by step,taking out/adding information needed to make a fun trip,not an Encyclopedia.

And as i already mentioned that i hate arguing,this will be my last post on this topic.

Peace

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

That was one side of the reasoning, but as you saw even Danzou wanted to keep this secret, and in his case it was not for Uchiha but for the village.

Fair enough. I forgot about Danzo also wanting to keep the secret, so you're right on that.

The village had Itachi on their side, and many more strong clans. I think Uchiha were preparing for something special, probably it was to use the Kyuubi to do a surprise attack, since it was in their possession before Konoha was created. Using the kyuubi would make it possible to beat the old 3rd hokage, since the 4th was already dead, the kage was not that strong, as we have seen in his battle against Orochimaru. Also the elders feared that, since they assumed the Uchiha were behind the kyuubi attack and the death of the 4th hokage. My assumption is that this whole civil war thing was plotted by Madara, after he failed in an open attack, deciding to operate from the shadows is a logical decision.

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Konoha would defeat the Uchiha in a civil war, and easily at that. I never claimed any such thing.

If Itachi was ordered to kill the Uchiha that means the village leaders regarded him very strong, so either that order is stupid or the civil war reasoning is stupid. Itachi had MS, he could have defended the kyuubi from being taken by the Uchiha. The only logical reason for him to kill his entire clan would be the fear that if he does not do so then maybe Madara will join the Uchiha, which would make the civil war a real possibility, but Itachi never said that Madara was the reason. We only know that they had a pact of some sort, as long as Itachi lived Madara didn't attack Konoha. Maybe Itachi let him take the Uchiha eyes, or something like that. And since Itachi played the evil guy here, he probably told Madara that he wants some of the eyes, or something else, maybe to have Shishui's eye and Sasuke's eyes, or something like that.

What does Itachi's strength have to do with the threat of civil war? My argument never claimed that the Uchiha are capable of winning; the entire point is that they do pose enough of a threat that they would be able to pick a proper fight with Konoha. And while that fighting is going on, the village would be a prime target for other villages. Which side emerges victorious from that civil war isn't important; what's important is how weak Konoha would be during and in the immediate aftermath of such a war.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Konoha would defeat the Uchiha in a civil war, and easily at that. I never claimed any such thing.

But if in the civil Konoha is not considerably weakened then why would the other villages attack? They didn't attack when the kyuubi killed a lot of good ninjas, and they didn't attack when Orochimaru and the Sand weakened Konoha.

Originally Posted by Akashin

What does Itachi's strength have to do with the threat of civil war? My argument never claimed that the Uchiha are capable of winning; the entire point is that they do pose enough of a threat that they would be able to pick a proper fight with Konoha. And while that fighting is going on, the village would be a prime target for other villages. Which side emerges victorious from that civil war isn't important; what's important is how weak Konoha would be during and in the immediate aftermath of such a war.

If Itachi is strong enough to kill them then they are not a threat that's enough to cause a serious civil war. If Itachi is not strong enough then why did the village elders send him alone to kill the Uchiha. My point was that of these two only one cane be true. What i meant is that with Itachi on Konoha's side the village could have handled the Uchiha without such a terrible decision. Danzou was a complete idiot who has caused so much trouble to Konoha that not even Orochimaru could do more.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

But if in the civil Konoha is not considerably weakened then why would the other villages attack? They didn't attack when the kyuubi killed a lot of good ninjas, and they didn't attack when Orochimaru and the Sand weakened Konoha.

I'm pretty sure it was more a case of them capitalizing on the confusion, ie. attacking in the midst of the civil war. Konoha doesn't have to be considerably weakened for the civil war to provide such an opportunity, really.

As for why they didn't attack during the Kyubi or after the Sand invasion, your guess is as good as mine. In the case of the latter it may have had to do with the improved relations (that weren't really improved at all; ehh) between Konoha and Kumo. I couldn't really say.

If Itachi is strong enough to kill them then they are not a threat that's enough to cause a serious civil war. If Itachi is not strong enough then why did the village elders send him alone to kill the Uchiha. My point was that of these two only one cane be true. What i meant is that with Itachi on Konoha's side the village could have handled the Uchiha without such a terrible decision. Danzou was a complete idiot who has caused so much trouble to Konoha that not even Orochimaru could do more.

We have to remember that Itachi attacked by night and had the element of surprise; yeah the Uchiha suspected him, but I doubt they were prepared for him slaughtering them. So in that respect, Itachi being enough to take them out isn't necessarily in and of itself proof of how big a threat they were (plus, there's a difference between sending somebody armed with the MS and having to fight an entire clan of Sharingan users).

That said, was there really a better outcome? Had Itachi not done it the Uchiha would have carried out the coup d'etat, and probably all been killed anyway. With the massacre, at least the rest of the village is left untouched.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Akashin

I'm pretty sure it was more a case of them capitalizing on the confusion, ie. attacking in the midst of the civil war. Konoha doesn't have to be considerably weakened for the civil war to provide such an opportunity, really.

As for why they didn't attack during the Kyubi or after the Sand invasion, your guess is as good as mine. In the case of the latter it may have had to do with the improved relations (that weren't really improved at all; ehh) between Konoha and Kumo. I couldn't really say.

What i initially wanted to say is that the author wanted such a plot for the main characters like Sasuke and Naruto, so he made this complicated story of Itachi and Madara, but i think he didn't take care too much of such world and country politcs, which means there are some plot holes in there, but it doesn't matter since this manga is not about such issues. So i think the author didn't bother to think of this such in depth as you are now. It's like in a computer game when you go to parts of the map where you are not supposed to be you discover void places where the artists didn't place objects and textures because they concentrated their effort on places where most of the gamers go have fun.

Originally Posted by Akashin

We have to remember that Itachi attacked by night and had the element of surprise; yeah the Uchiha suspected him, but I doubt they were prepared for him slaughtering them. So in that respect, Itachi being enough to take them out isn't necessarily in and of itself proof of how big a threat they were (plus, there's a difference between sending somebody armed with the MS and having to fight an entire clan of Sharingan users).

So the village leaders who fear of a civil war and then of a war between villages, because the Uchiha clan is great/legendary/etc., will decide that one man is enough to kill the whole clan. There's just no way to defend that decision, according to the current plot. Of course Kishimoto can decide to introduce new plot points which make Danzou's decision logical. For example we know Danzou wanted power in the village and that he also wanted sharingan eyes, we can assume that knowing Itachi he feared Itachi's powers, and probably Shisui's powers too, he also knows how loyal they were to the village. So he played on the Konoha vs Uchiha tension, he fueled it, he sent in Itachi thinking that he will be killed, then the Uchiha would be killed by the "root" and the hokage's anbu in a civil war, in the mess of the civil war the Uchiha would kill the hokage, and then Danzou would seize control, using the implanted Uchiha eyes and the 1st hokage's power he would become the leader, using Izanagi he probably wanted to win a 4th ninja war and unite all ninjas under his command. He even admitted his ambitions to become the supreme leader of all villages at the kage meeting. But Madara helped Itachi to destroy the clan and Danzou's plan of destabilizing the village and harversting all the eyes failed, the eyes are now in Madara's posession. In that case it was just Danzou's miscalculation, he didn't know of Madara's existence, when he learned it in present time it was too late, he was killed by Madara (i mean Sasuke under Madara's influence) and Shishui's eye almost taken.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

What i initially wanted to say is that the author wanted such a plot for the main characters like Sasuke and Naruto, so he made this complicated story of Itachi and Madara, but i think he didn't take care too much of such world and country politcs, which means there are some plot holes in there, but it doesn't matter since this manga is not about such issues. So i think the author didn't bother to think of this such in depth as you are now. It's like in a computer game when you go to parts of the map where you are not supposed to be you discover void places where the artists didn't place objects and textures because they concentrated their effort on places where most of the gamers go have fun.

This is more or less right, yeah. As you said it would have made more sense if perhaps other countries had reacted similarly in the aftermath of the Konoha-Suna war. As it is the fear of starting a 4th war was probably just put in for the sake of explaining Itachi's internal conflict during that period, without being fully thought out (and that's fine with me, since like you said, it's a peripheral thing at best).

That said, I do still see some just cause to worry about sparking a war.

So the village leaders who fear of a civil war and then of a war between villages, because the Uchiha clan is great/legendary/etc., will decide that one man is enough to kill the whole clan. There's just no way to defend that decision, according to the current plot. Of course Kishimoto can decide to introduce new plot points which make Danzou's decision logical. For example we know Danzou wanted power in the village and that he also wanted sharingan eyes, we can assume that knowing Itachi he feared Itachi's powers, and probably Shisui's powers too, he also knows how loyal they were to the village. So he played on the Konoha vs Uchiha tension, he fueled it, he sent in Itachi thinking that he will be killed, then the Uchiha would be killed by the "root" and the hokage's anbu in a civil war, in the mess of the civil war the Uchiha would kill the hokage, and then Danzou would seize control, using the implanted Uchiha eyes and the 1st hokage's power he would become the leader, using Izanagi he probably wanted to win a 4th ninja war and unite all ninjas under his command. He even admitted his ambitions to become the supreme leader of all villages at the kage meeting. But Madara helped Itachi to destroy the clan and Danzou's plan of destabilizing the village and harversting all the eyes failed, the eyes are now in Madara's posession. In that case it was just Danzou's miscalculation, he didn't know of Madara's existence, when he learned it in present time it was too late, he was killed by Madara (i mean Sasuke under Madara's influence) and Shishui's eye almost taken.

There is some fridge logic in the decision if Danzo did indeed not want to have the world know of this particular little dirty secret in Konoha's history. If that was indeed the case it makes a certain sort of sense to push Itachi into being their scapegoat. Of course that hinges on Danzo wanting the entire incident to stay secret, and who knows what his reasoning for that was, hence the fridge logic.

That said, your Danzo conspiracy idea has some merit behind it. I doubt Kishimoto thought it out to that extent, but it does sound plausible in theory.

[Rurik]

Wao, I need to start reading Naruto again.

so, Itachi foresaw that Kabuto was going to bring him back with edo tensei?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Akashin

That said, I do still see some just cause to worry about sparking a war.

I agree on that, but just because there is a risk someone doesn't do a genocide. For someone to come to such an inhuman decision there must be an unavoidable catastrophy to prevent. The author just failed to make it beliveable for me, but for you it's more believeable.

[Cista]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Wao, I need to start reading Naruto again.

so, Itachi foresaw that Kabuto was going to bring him back with edo tensei?

Itachi wanted it to be used on Sasuke. It wasn't foresaw by Itachi, that he will eventually be revived.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Cista

Itachi wanted it to be used on Sasuke. It wasn't foresaw by Itachi, that he will eventually be revived.

-To be fair, so far we have not seen anyone in the manga to be capable of predicting the future. Which is weird if you ask me, considering the manga deals with magical, super ninjas using sign language to conduct battle. But I digress. Anyway, despite not being gifted with pre-cognitive abilities, Itachi has certainly done pretty well to try and ensure the best possible outcomes for his mission. He made sure Sasuke had the drive to live (to kill him), left behind a defense mechanism to incinerate Madara if he came close to Sasuke (though it backfired) and left Shisui's eye as a last-resort should Naruto ever find himself staring down a very angry Sasuke. Give the guy an "A" for preparation. And who knows, perhaps the crow itself wasn't a one-time deal...

[james0246]

^Old Toad Dude can predict the future. Besides that, though, no one else qualifies...at least not until another Uchiha with an MS shows up...

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-To be fair, so far we have not seen anyone in the manga to be capable of predicting the future.

It would seem if not ninjas, elder toad sages can.

Edit: G*d*mn*t James.. I was ninja'd.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Old Toad Dude can predict the future. Besides that, though, no one else qualifies...at least not until another Uchiha with an MS shows up...

-Oh damn, I forgot about the Old Toad Sage . Still, his predictions seem to be only "technically" correct. Yeah, he predicted that Jiraiya would train a "Child of Prophesy", but he never even considered there may be more than one. Or just what all of Jiraiya and Naruto's actions would ultimately amount to. Still, better than nothing I guess. Hey james how much you wanna bet that Madara is actually a time-traveler and that's why he knew how to take care of things?

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-Oh damn, I forgot about the Old Toad Sage . Still, his predictions seem to be only "technically" correct. Yeah, he predicted that Jiraiya would train a "Child of Prophesy", but he never even considered there may be more than one. Or just what all of Jiraiya and Naruto's actions would ultimately amount to. Still, better than nothing I guess. Hey james how much you wanna bet that Madara is actually a time-traveler and that's why he knew how to take care of things?

That's because what he does is make prophecies, which are by nature extremely vague (and sometimes self-fulfilling). Thus he knew Jiraiya would train the Child of Prophecy only in the most general sense, but not who that child was or what that child would do. It's still less vague than the prophecy in Harry Potter, since at least this one doesn't rely upon itself to come true (whereas the prophecy in Harry Potter is unlikely to have come true had people not believed in and acted upon it).