Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[monster]

This makes me think that, maybe, what some people are complaining about is that Inaho doesn't seem to suffer from any tragic event. I mean, Batman has his parent's deaths and all that, and some people do seem to like Slaine's suffering in season 1.

In a way, I think some people are supporting Slaine this season, in part, due to what he went though in the first season.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by monster

This makes me think that, maybe, what some people are complaining about is that Inaho doesn't seem to suffer from any tragic event. I mean, Batman has his parent's deaths and all that, and some people do seem to like Slaine's suffering in season 1.

In a way, I think some people are supporting Slaine this season, in part, due to what he went though in the first season.

I've noticed that it sometimes depends on the culture that's watching the series. I've noticed that most of the audience forums for us in the West Inaho and Slaine are liked somewhat equally, with Inaho getting the edge here and there for a lot of the forums and reviewers I watch and read. On the other hand, in Japan, Slaine is overwhelmingly the most popular, followed by Asseylum, and then Inaho. I think it can come from what it is that we as a culture prize in our main characters that can make us drawn to one character more than another.

I enjoy Slaine a little more, because I do like to see a character struggle and face overwhelming odds and become this rising underdog. Inaho's has made little to no mistakes and those he has made are rarely brought up, while I don't hate him and I sometimes enjoy his dry humor, I just can't connect to him on a viceral level like I can with Slaine. It's just that you have Slaine whose been broken and abused for so long, and to see him finally get an edge up over these people that tried to tear him down makes me enjoy and want to share in his triumphs and fear for the stumbling blocks in his way.

I like how the director had first wanted Slaine's character to be your usual rebellious slave who hated his Martian masters and only met the princess in passing. He climbs the ranks in a Machiavellian fashion, and actually was supposed to have saved Saazbaum's life on purpose just to use him later (he never cared about the princess because the two were never friends). However, they decided to build more nuances to Slaine's character and instead decided to make it that he was completely broken and destroyed by the abuse of the Martians and that his memories of friendship with Asseylum was the only light in his horrible life. And it's through that loyalty and devotion to her that begins to spur his actions to make changes in Vers.

As for Inaho, I do actually like him a little better this season that I did the last. He seems to be expressing more emotions and actually having conflicts. They were originally going to have him be consumed with his mission to find the princess, putting that above everything and everyone else. However, because of how his friends' characters were written, the changed that a bit, but I am actually beginning to see traces of that past obsessive characterization in this last episode. I'm interested in seeing where that goes, and I'm very interested in how the whole deal with his eye negatively damaging his brain will come back to add more conflict.

[glaceon_cute]

I like Slaine and Inaho equally from ss1 to ss2. But when it comes to Slaine in ss 1, I pitied him more than actually liked him. How could you not pity him when he suffered too much and Inaho just there watching birds flying with Seylum? About Inaho, he is an unique character that not too stoic and sister complex like Tatsuya. That's why I like him when I really hate Tatsuya, despite they both can be called Gary Stu at one point.

I actually feel more connect to Inaho, since I'm really quiet and can be judged as "smart", I guess? I'm terrible at showing my emotion too, so I don't really understand the whole "emotionless" deal that people usually give him for reasons of hating him. I mean, we are not emotionless, we just...well, hiding our emotion because we don't want to. That's why it pains me when Inaho just gets so little of love, especially the figures thingy (Slaine has 2, Seylum has 2, even the mecha has one, but Inaho has 0, really...?) This season, Inaho changes so much, and I can already feel he is obsessing with hime now, without needing to be told. The left eye thingy is also a potential development. He gets knowledge but has to pay a price, like Slaine already paid his price to find his objective.

About Slaine this season, I like him more than I used to, for the reason that he finally has a clear objective instead of just "saving hime". He grew up a lot too, though sometimes his coldness makes me want to have my innocent Slaine back.

I like how the directors changed their ideas through the way too. That's why I love reading their interviews. That makes it sound like they are raising children, they want them to be like this but then the environment make them like that. I feel that they put so much love in their characters, and people (ie: 4chan) just complain that how bad these characters are written...

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by monster

This makes me think that, maybe, what some people are complaining about is that Inaho doesn't seem to suffer from any tragic event. I mean, Batman has his parent's deaths and all that, and some people do seem to like Slaine's suffering in season 1.

In a way, I think some people are supporting Slaine this season, in part, due to what he went though in the first season.

There's some truth to that, yes. But really, the issue isn't so much that Inaho hasn't suffered - Inaho did lose a friend, after all, and he's also lost his home. Inaho, like almost all of the protagonists, lost a lot in the opening arc of the first cour. However, Inaho's mannerisms and tone of voice just didn't seem like those belonging to a person who had lost a lot, so this sort of undermines how the plot actually has set him up as a character who has lost a lot. In other words, I wasn't feeling the lost with Inaho, whereas I now am feeling a sense of lost given what Inaho says about Asseylum in Cour 2, for example.


Here's how I see it - Inaho has, thankfully, improved as a character since Cour 1.

In Cour 1, he typically came across to me as vaguely bored and sort of excessively calm/relaxed given the circumstances, and given what he had lost. There were exceptions - Such as how he looked/sounded after he shot down Slaine - but they were exceptions, and they were few and far between.

Here in Cour 2, though, there's a pretty consistent subtle intensity to Inaho's tone of voice. It's hard to put into words, but there's an edge there that was largely lacking before. I now find it a lot easier to tell that Inaho really cares about what's going on around him. His voice has shifted from Mr. Robot to vaguely Batman-esque. It's a subtle shift, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

I don't need Inaho to be Mr. Charisma - Vers is loaded with hams that can provide that sort of entertainment - But I do want Inaho to be something other than Mr. Robot. Thankfully, he seems to have become more than that in Cour 2.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

There's some truth to that, yes. But really, the issue isn't so much that Inaho hasn't suffered - Inaho did lose a friend, after all, and he's also lost his home. Inaho, like almost all of the protagonists, lost a lot in the opening arc of the first cour. However, Inaho's mannerisms and tone of voice just didn't seem like those belonging to a person who had lost a lot, so this sort of undermines how the plot actually has set him up as a character who has lost a lot. In other words, I wasn't feeling the lost with Inaho, whereas I now am feeling a sense of lost given what Inaho says about Asseylum in Cour 2, for example.


Here's how I see it - Inaho has, thankfully, improved as a character since Cour 1.

In Cour 1, he typically came across to me as vaguely bored and sort of excessively calm/relaxed given the circumstances, and given what he had lost. There were exceptions - Such as how he looked/sounded after he shot down Slaine - but they were exceptions, and they were few and far between.

Here in Cour 2, though, there's a pretty consistent subtle intensity to Inaho's tone of voice. It's hard to put into words, but there's an edge there that was largely lacking before. I now find it a lot easier to tell that Inaho really cares about what's going on around him. His voice has shifted from Mr. Robot to vaguely Batman-esque. It's a subtle shift, but it makes a lot of difference to me.

I don't need Inaho to be Mr. Charisma - Vers is loaded with hams that can provide that sort of entertainment - But I do want Inaho to be something other than Mr. Robot. Thankfully, he seems to have become more than that in Cour 2.

Yes. I can detect a sense of purpose and decisiveness in his voice now.

[John117xCortana]

When he told Yuki about how he saw the Princess shot right in front of him there was.....pain in his voice.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

When he told Yuki about how he saw the Princess shot right in front of him there was.....pain in his voice.

Indeed, I see Inaho as someone who bottles everything up inside him, be it joy or grief. The day that dam bursts and it comes out there will be blood for miles.

[Asuras]

Originally Posted by Raziel1991

^^^ That is not true, he only won by himself against Vlad (second fight) and against the guy in the ice kat (what was his name again?). Against everyone else he needed the help of others to execute his tactics.

Which is exactly my issue with him. Since the start of the show he's become increasingly more self-sufficient to the point of flawlessness. Where once the defeat of superior technology required time, thought, and an entourage of help, he can now single-handedly perform maneuvers and actions that detract from the initial intensity I was so entranced with.

Now it's just a casual dismissal of danger given his disappointing "super-computer" addition. It seems like such a huge cop-out from the writers, as if they wanted to find a way to escape having to think about encounters. Instead of it being a struggle, it's a simple push of the button and, "Oh look Inaho knows how to do everything now. How convenient."

The rest of the crew is pretty much just a spring board for him now, serving as a literal place to stand on so he can shoot the bad guys. It's gotten to the point where even non-combat situations are just pieces for him to effortlessly deconstruct and further add to his contrived "badassery".

Inaho: Emotionless Marksman Psychologist Cyborg Warrior.

It truly sounds like something out of a bad fanfiction.

[itisjustme]

Call it cynicism but I suspect Inaho's transformation to be as much of a plot device as Slaine's.

Mind Inaho's is more subtle and more subdued, and on it's own it's entirely believable and almost organic. But.. S1 was almost entirely "Inaho pwns the martians." They only needed him as a vehicle of asskicking delivery and that's what he was. Now it seems S2 is to be about Inaho vs Slaine, and suddenly Inaho is driven to fight Slaine and find about Asseylum, which we know comes back to Slaine, whereas Slaine has a U-turn in character and fortune to suddenly become a credible opponent for Inaho. Smells too convenient to me, shrug.

[Galaxian]

Wait... Between Inaho and Slain, Slain is Batman? The guy with a future-telling mecha is Batman? Which means that the guy who somehow plans everything out is Superman?

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by monster

This makes me think that, maybe, what some people are complaining about is that Inaho doesn't seem to suffer from any tragic event. I mean, Batman has his parent's deaths and all that, and some people do seem to like Slaine's suffering in season 1.

In a way, I think some people are supporting Slaine this season, in part, due to what he went though in the first season.

I also kind of feel compassion for Slaine's doomed romantic feelings. He's that kind of fake love rival who's been friendzoned ever since he first met the leading guy's girl--only he doesn't realize it until the very last moment. Makes for impressive breakdowns.

Originally Posted by monster

That seems silly. Not every fictional character needs to have many flaws. Even with Slaine, for all of my complaints of his actions, it really boils down to mainly one flaw.

I think I know the secret answer.

Inaho has M-Stu's capabilities and assets but he has the design & charisma of an Everyman character type.

That's what throws people off about him.

If he had awesome charisma and large personality like, say, Edward Elric, viewers would have loved his flawless powerful ways.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

I also kind of feel compassion for Slaine's doomed romantic feelings. He's that kind of fake love rival who's been friendzoned ever since he first met the leading guy's girl--only he doesn't realize it until the very last moment. Makes for impressive breakdowns.

Slaine doesn't have any romantic feelings for Asseylum. The writers and director have specifically said several times that his feelings are more that of devotion and loyalty and reverence. Slaine has been friends with Asseylum since he moved into her castle back when he was on Vers. Those memories of her friendship are the only thing that got him through his years with Cruhteo. He cares deeply for her, but it's different than romantic feelings.

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Slaine doesn't have any romantic feelings for Asseylum. The writers and director have specifically said several times that his feelings are more that of devotion and loyalty and reverence. Slaine has been friends with Asseylum since he moved into her castle back when he was on Vers. Those memories of her friendship are the only thing that got him through his years with Cruhteo. He cares deeply for her, but it's different than romantic feelings.

If they want to show his friendly devotion by making him kneel and hug her tube-thing in the opening, they are doing it wrong. Because for all intents and purposes he looks like a lover in despair.
And making the early Aldnoah transfer in the flashback look like a sexy wet kiss, was it done just for a bit of fanservice?
I believe they said it, but the way they choose to show his feelings must be intentionally confusing then.

[Mikethemaster]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

If they want to show his friendly devotion by making him kneel and hug her tube-thing in the opening, they are doing it wrong. Because for all intents and purposes he looks like a lover in despair.
And making the early Aldnoah transfer in the flashback look like a sexy wet kiss, was it done just for a bit of fanservice?
I believe they said it, but the way they choose to show his feelings must be intentionally confusing then.

Yeah I think they said that so shippers can shut up even Asseylum sister sees that Slaine in love with Asseylum what kind of smart do they take us for maybe the fans that can't pick up on romanic feelings of someone in love. Slaine wants to keep her in a glass case just so he admire her and her gorgeous figure. I mean the director making Slaine out to be in love with Asseylum. Now I can't wait until the next episode Slaine vs generic villian and racesit next week, who want to bet Slaine will stomp dudes behind.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

If they want to show his friendly devotion by making him kneel and hug her tube-thing in the opening, they are doing it wrong. Because for all intents and purposes he looks like a lover in despair.
And making the early Aldnoah transfer in the flashback look like a sexy wet kiss, was it done just for a bit of fanservice?
I believe they said it, but the way they choose to show his feelings must be intentionally confusing then.

Maybe you're just interpreting the scene wrong then? Kneeling to her = devotion. And he's never "hugged" the tube, he's supposedly frustrated and in despair that she's not actually getting better in those scenes. As for her saving her his life as a kid, yeah, it was fanservice, but this is a business and they know who are watching. The animators were a little too happy with that scene.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by Asuras

Which is exactly my issue with him. Since the start of the show he's become increasingly more self-sufficient to the point of flawlessness. Where once the defeat of superior technology required time, thought, and an entourage of help, he can now single-handedly perform maneuvers and actions that detract from the initial intensity I was so entranced with.

Now it's just a casual dismissal of danger given his disappointing "super-computer" addition. It seems like such a huge cop-out from the writers, as if they wanted to find a way to escape having to think about encounters. Instead of it being a struggle, it's a simple push of the button and, "Oh look Inaho knows how to do everything now. How convenient."

The rest of the crew is pretty much just a spring board for him now, serving as a literal place to stand on so he can shoot the bad guys. It's gotten to the point where even non-combat situations are just pieces for him to effortlessly deconstruct and further add to his contrived "badassery".

Inaho: Emotionless Marksman Psychologist Cyborg Warrior.

It truly sounds like something out of a bad fanfiction.

I think you are oversimplifying the situation. Yes, Inaho gets the spotlight because he's the one getting to pull off the most awesome stunts.

But then no one seem to praise other people for their moments;
Marito acting as bait and lead to defeat a Martian as he had planned, while with PTSD.
The ship captain and her quick smart decisions, especially in ep12 S1.
Nina ramming the Martian Knight, Rayet killing her off.
Yuki and Inko, for all their actions, and saving Inaho several times.

Why do we only see Inaho as the badass? Because of his flashy stunts? Sure he's the David Beckham/Lionel Messi of the football team, they score the goals. But doesn't mean they're badass in on themselves alone. Who remembers the goalkeeper, the defenders, and mid-fielders that help pass the ball?

Or maybe he doesn't do mistakes? Which doesn't explain how he almost died in S1, how he lost the princess to the enemy, and how Slaine plays him like a pawn in killing Saazbaum.

Or maybe because he shows no emotion to such crisis? Imagine if Slaine was stoic all the way, through Cruhteo torture, dealing with Saazbaum, and until now. Imagine Slaine shows no emotion. No angst in front Princess tube. All the events would feel less serious, and more meh. A lot of people disliking Inaho basically really boils to one reason; Inaho shows no fear, or reaction they can see, to otherwise serious events.

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

If they want to show his friendly devotion by making him kneel and hug her tube-thing in the opening, they are doing it wrong. Because for all intents and purposes he looks like a lover in despair.
And making the early Aldnoah transfer in the flashback look like a sexy wet kiss, was it done just for a bit of fanservice?
I believe they said it, but the way they choose to show his feelings must be intentionally confusing then.

Ever had that one obsessive friend who would never give you up to your boyfriend/girlfriend, always wants to keep you separated from others to maximize your time together, and both you and other people feel unsure whether he/she loves your friendship, or he/she's gay for you, or just plain possessiveness?

Slaine feels like that possessive obsessive half-friend and half-gay-for-you, that have secret pleasure thoughts of you raping him. But then maybe its this way mostly because his misunderstanding that the UFE is exploiting her, which he have no evidence of.

[Syaokura]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Slaine doesn't have any romantic feelings for Asseylum. The writers and director have specifically said several times that his feelings are more that of devotion and loyalty and reverence. Slaine has been friends with Asseylum since he moved into her castle back when he was on Vers. Those memories of her friendship are the only thing that got him through his years with Cruhteo. He cares deeply for her, but it's different than romantic feelings.

Do you know if there are translations out there that support this? Not that I'm doubting you, but I do prefer to have scans or even translated summaries handy as opposed to second/third-hand info. I made a tumblr post about Slaine and Asseylum and someone told me it's from the ArchiveZ but they never posted the info so...

Re: the CPR/kiss -- I'm sorry, but I can't find anything sexy about that scene. Slaine was 11 while Asseylum was 10. Ew.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Syaokura

Do you know if there are translations out there that support this? Not that I'm doubting you, but I do prefer to have scans or even translated summaries handy as opposed to second/third-hand info. I made a tumblr post about Slaine and Asseylum and someone told me it's from the ArchiveZ but they never posted the info so...

Re: the CPR/kiss -- I'm sorry, but I can't find anything sexy about that scene. Slaine was 11 while Asseylum was 10. Ew.

Disregarding the CPR part, you don't think 11 and 10 year olds kiss, or have romantic feelings?

[DemiDomo]

I was amazed she was even able to perform cpr.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at this point if he has romatic feelings or not. Its evolving past the parameters of loyalty, being a protector, to something creepy and obsessive.

You dont need romantic feelings to become creeply obessive about them.

To slaine the princess is everything to him. Losing her means losing his world technically.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

I was amazed she was even able to perform cpr.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at this point if he has romatic feelings or not. Its evolving past the parameters of loyalty, being a protector, to something creepy and obsessive.

You dont need romantic feelings to become creeply obessive about them.

To slaine the princess is everything to him. Losing her means losing his world technically.

Can it also be seen as a matter of honor? She was torn to shreds when she tried to help him. He feels obligated to save her in return.